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Doubts in Gita Verses

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All,

I was reading the English translation of Bhagavad-Gita online and i

have some doubts.

 

The following verse ( or its translation ) seems to suggest that

Brahman (or Brahma-jnana ) is not the Ultimate.

 

http://www.bhagavad-gita.us/bhagavad-gita-2-1.htm ( see text 2 )

 

Also, the following verse seems to suggest that individual souls

exist eternally i.e the individual souls can never merge with the

Supreme Soul.

 

http://www.bhagavad-gita.us/bhagavad-gita-2-12.htm ( text 12 & 13 )

 

Could someone here clarify the real meaning of these verses ? Is this

the right translation or am I missing something ?

 

Om Shanthi !

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advaitin, "Sowmy" <nsowmy> wrote:

> All,

> I was reading the English translation of Bhagavad-Gita online

and i

> have some doubts.

>

> The following verse ( or its translation ) seems to suggest that

> Brahman (or Brahma-jnana ) is not the Ultimate.

>

> http://www.bhagavad-gita.us/bhagavad-gita-2-1.htm ( see text 2 )

>

> > Could someone here clarify the real meaning of these verses ?

Is this

> the right translation or am I missing something ?

>

> Om Shanthi !

 

Namaste Sowmy-ji and others

 

Please note that Shrila Prabhupada, one of the great giants of

spirituality that India has produced in recent times, does not,

however, agree with advaita. That is why he is making a distinction

between Brahman, paramAtmA and Bhagwan in the Bhagavatam shloka that

he wuotes (1-2-11)

 

*vadanti tat tattva-vidaH tatvaM yad-jnAna-samj~nitaM; brahmeti

paramAtmeti bhagavAniti shabdyate *

 

The meaning of that shloka according to Shridhara's traditional

commentary, is that the same Absolute Truth is known as brahman,

paramAtmA and bhagavAn. In fact Krishna Himself uses these words

almost interchangeably in the Gita.

 

The advaita contention is that the seer, the seen and the seeing are

all the same, from the Absolute point of view. The example of the

Sun, the Sun's disc and the planet Sun that Prabhupada-ji cites

distinguishes these three because he does not accept the advaita

contention that what you see has no absolute reality by itself. What

is absolutely real is yourself, when rid of all that is a 'covering'

of the Self.

 

If you want to understand the advaitic interpretation of the Gita,

please read the translations of Shankara Bhashya in Gita supersite.

 

PraNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

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advaitin, "Sowmy" <nsowmy> wrote:

> All,

> I was reading the English translation of Bhagavad-Gita online

and i

> have some doubts.

>

> The following verse ( or its translation ) seems to suggest that

> Brahman (or Brahma-jnana ) is not the Ultimate.

>

> http://www.bhagavad-gita.us/bhagavad-gita-2-1.htm ( see text 2 )

>

> Also, the following verse seems to suggest that individual souls

> exist eternally i.e the individual souls can never merge with the

> Supreme Soul.

>

> http://www.bhagavad-gita.us/bhagavad-gita-2-12.htm ( text 12 & 13 )

 

Namaste,

 

If you read the translation from Prabhupad Bhaktivedanta of ISCON

you will get a personal dvaitic interpretation of the Gita. Many

other Vaishnava interpretations are also similar.

 

The Ramakrishna Math has a good translation and there are many

others that have a less personal interpretation.........ONS..Tony.

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Namaste Sowmy-ji and others

 

Please note that Shrila Prabhupada, one of the great giants of

spirituality that India has produced in recent times, does not,

however, agree with advaita. That is why he is making a distinction

between Brahman, paramAtmA and Bhagwan in the Bhagavatam shloka that

he wuotes (1-2-11)

 

*vadanti tat tattva-vidaH tatvaM yad-jnAna-samj~nitaM; brahmeti

paramAtmeti bhagavAniti shabdyate *

 

The meaning of that shloka according to Shridhara's traditional

commentary, is that the same Absolute Truth is known as brahman,

paramAtmA and bhagavAn. In fact Krishna Himself uses these words

almost interchangeably in the Gita.

 

praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

 

What Sri VK prabhuji says here is absolutely right...we should not try to

understand advaita siddhAnta through ISKCON books...May be ISKCON

publications are the very good source for bhakti siddhAnta (ofcourse its

bhakti severely lacks catholicity, they call shiva-durga etc. as demi

gods!!!) Srila prabhupAdji was the vehement critisizer of advaita vEdAnta

like other dualistic School AchAraya-s & refutes advaita (mAyAvAda) with

all derogatory remarks!! So, it is better to give-up reading ISKCON

publication books those who want to persue their spiritual quest in the

path of jnAna.

 

It is worth mentioning that the slOka from the bhagavata quoted above

rather proves advaita point...Roughly it says, knowers of the paramArTha

tattva (tattva vidaH) call the ultimate principle that which is non-dual

Jnana, some call it Brahman, some others call it paramAtma & some as

bhagavAn. But prabhupad interprets it (dont remember his exact words) &

directed us to his own siddhAnta & propagates personalized form of god as

tattva..He says "know that the personal feature of the Lord is the last

word in the

Absolute Truth, and know that all three Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan

feature of the Lord exist.

 

I think, such a forced interpretation can only work if we accept the word

*tattva* means the *personal form* (that too ONLY krishna, the supreme

godhead) which is contrary to the plain meaning of the slOka.

 

 

The next verse substantiate the advaitic view point of the previous verse :

 

tatShradadhadhAnA munayo jnAnavairagyayuktayA |

pashyanti Atmani chAtmanAm bhaktyA shrutagrhEtaya ||

 

Those faith-filled muni-s who with bhakti filled with jnana (jnAna bhakti

miShrita) and vairagya and understanding of the ShAstrass see that *tattva*

in their own selves. The tattva is yEka & sama in all *yEko dEvaH

sarvabhUtEshu gUdaH...Atma guhAyAm nihitOsya jaNtOh, ahamAtma gudAkESha

praNinAm dEhamAshritaH* etc. etc. from smruti & shruti confirms this.

 

Just few thoughts........

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

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Thanks profvk-ji, Tony-ji and Bhaskar-ji for the clarification. Even

i had an hunch about the translation having a Dwaitic tone to it. Just

wanted to make sure.

Btw, the same translation is present in vedabase.net too. And I

remember profvk-ji mentioning about this site, for an English

translation of Bhagavatam. Hope atleast that translation is objective.

 

Om Shanthi !

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advaitin, "Sowmy" <nsowmy> wrote:

> Thanks profvk-ji, Tony-ji and Bhaskar-ji for the clarification.

Even

> i had an hunch about the translation having a Dwaitic tone to it.

Just

> wanted to make sure.

> Btw, the same translation is present in vedabase.net too. And I

> remember profvk-ji mentioning about this site, for an English

> translation of Bhagavatam. Hope atleast that translation is

objective.

 

 

Namaste Sowmy-ji

 

The vedabasenet.sb is the translation of Shrimad Bhagavatam by

Shrila Prabhupada. So it is also based on the same ISKCON

viewpoint. As far as I know there is no English translation on the

web available for the Bhagavatam from the advaitic point of view. Of

course there are various Ramakrishna mutt and other publications

available in hard copies.

 

PraNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

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