Maya in action !

[Guest guest]

Dear Advaitins,

 

In this post, i would like to present some facts about how the

mental picture differs radically from the actual reality. Following

is what I gathered from the posts of Mike Gamble in the

forum "philosophyofmind" :

 

--

 

"We only have direct knowledge of what the mind presents to us.

Knowledge of anything else is mediated by the mind and therefore

indirect. Therefore experience is a representation of things, about

which we can have no direct knowledge, and we have to assume that the

representation is to some extent different from the thing in itself

and perhaps radically different. "

 

"For example, our experience of color is just a mental

interpretation of given wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation a

conformational change in the protein rhodopsin. You may say that you

see a red car, for example, but the redness of that car is really

just a mental interpretation of the data. In fact it's meaningless to

attribute redness to the conformational change of rhodopsin, or to

the wavelength of light, or to the car itself. Redness is an

attribute of some other substrate besides matter or energy. It makes

no sense to attribute yellowness to a certain wavelength of

electromagnetic radiation, because of all we know about the qualities

of matter and energy, yellowness is not among them nor derivable from

them. Yellowness as a conscious experience is simply a representation

and in no way resembles the lightwaves which we assume cause the

experience."

 

"Consider for example when you cut yourself, and you experience

pain. First, pain is not a property which you can attribute to

matter. There is absolutely nothing in physics that can explain the

phenomenon. Thus pain is an attribute of some other "substrate"

than matter. And as I said, it is only a representation of that

which caused it -- an interpretation provided by the mind. There is

no reason to assume that pain is something occurring on the

biochemical level in the cells that underwent the laceration.

Rather pain is a representation of that, and that which is

represented has an entirely different nature."

 

"Soundwaves stop at the eardrum. They are nothing more than the

vibrant motion of molecules in some medium such as air or water. But

ask yourself this: How is such motion interpreted by the mind as tone

and pitch? The subjective effect is entirely different in quality

from the cause. Physics can only tell you about the wavelengths

causing the phenomena. It says nothing about how we perceive it as

symphony or songs that move the soul. "

 

"So the issue is mediation. We have conscious experience and it has

a great deal of order to it. In many ways it is very predictable.

Thus we want to explain how the orderliness of our conscious

experience is mediated. Thus we attribute to matter and energy the

quality of self-existence such that they have qualities that can act

according to the physical laws that we understand or at least

according to corollaries of those laws. But the problem is that

that only explains the orderliness. It doesn't explain the

mediation. And by an objective analysis of the situation, that is,

by an objectivity free of materialistic zeal, we have to conclude

that matter and energy are not capable of that mediation according

to any evidence that we have. There is something else in the

equation to which we must attribute the mediation. And this being

the case, we must realize that that unknown factor which mediates

may also be responsible for the orderliness. That is to say that

matter and energy may be totally irrelevent. Perhaps they are not

self-existent and only manifestations or representations of a deeper

self-existence attributable only to the same principle capable of

the mediation. Assuming otherwise is simply assumption."

 

------

 

So Mind, in effect, is a data interpreter, similar to a computer

program. Like an Imaging program making an image out of the ones and

zeroes stored on the disk, mind presents an image (out of nothing)

for us to work with.

 

Hence we need to rise above the mind in order to see the actual

reality. I guess transcendental meditation helps in doing just that.

It silences the mind and helps perceive the actual reality which is

nothing but pure consciousness....

 

Have a Nice Day!

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Sowmy" <nsowmy> wrote:

> Dear Advaitins,

>

> In this post, i would like to present some facts about how the

> mental picture differs radically from the actual reality. Following

> is what I gathered from the posts of Mike Gamble in the

> forum "philosophyofmind" :

>

> --

>

> "We only have direct knowledge of what the mind presents to us.

> Knowledge of anything else is mediated by the mind and therefore

> indirect. Therefore experience is a representation of things, about

> which we can have no direct knowledge, and we have to assume that

the

> representation is to some extent different from the thing in itself

> and perhaps radically different. "

>

> "For example, our experience of color is just a mental

> interpretation of given wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation a

> conformational change in the protein rhodopsin. You may say that

you

> see a red car, for example, but the redness of that car is really

> just a mental interpretation of the data. In fact it's meaningless

to

> attribute redness to the conformational change of rhodopsin, or to

> the wavelength of light, or to the car itself. Redness is an

> attribute of some other substrate besides matter or energy. It

makes

> no sense to attribute yellowness to a certain wavelength of

> electromagnetic radiation, because of all we know about the

qualities

> of matter and energy, yellowness is not among them nor derivable

from

> them. Yellowness as a conscious experience is simply a

representation

> and in no way resembles the lightwaves which we assume cause the

> experience."

>

> "Consider for example when you cut yourself, and you experience

> pain. First, pain is not a property which you can attribute to

> matter. There is absolutely nothing in physics that can explain the

> phenomenon. Thus pain is an attribute of some other "substrate"

> than matter. And as I said, it is only a representation of that

> which caused it -- an interpretation provided by the mind. There is

> no reason to assume that pain is something occurring on the

> biochemical level in the cells that underwent the laceration.

> Rather pain is a representation of that, and that which is

> represented has an entirely different nature."

>

> "Soundwaves stop at the eardrum. They are nothing more than the

> vibrant motion of molecules in some medium such as air or water.

But

> ask yourself this: How is such motion interpreted by the mind as

tone

> and pitch? The subjective effect is entirely different in quality

> from the cause. Physics can only tell you about the wavelengths

> causing the phenomena. It says nothing about how we perceive it as

> symphony or songs that move the soul. "

>

> "So the issue is mediation. We have conscious experience and it

has

> a great deal of order to it. In many ways it is very predictable.

> Thus we want to explain how the orderliness of our conscious

> experience is mediated. Thus we attribute to matter and energy the

> quality of self-existence such that they have qualities that can

act

> according to the physical laws that we understand or at least

> according to corollaries of those laws. But the problem is that

> that only explains the orderliness. It doesn't explain the

> mediation. And by an objective analysis of the situation, that is,

> by an objectivity free of materialistic zeal, we have to conclude

> that matter and energy are not capable of that mediation according

> to any evidence that we have. There is something else in the

> equation to which we must attribute the mediation. And this being

> the case, we must realize that that unknown factor which mediates

> may also be responsible for the orderliness. That is to say that

> matter and energy may be totally irrelevent. Perhaps they are not

> self-existent and only manifestations or representations of a

deeper

> self-existence attributable only to the same principle capable of

> the mediation. Assuming otherwise is simply assumption."

>

> ------

>

> So Mind, in effect, is a data interpreter, similar to a computer

> program. Like an Imaging program making an image out of the ones

and

> zeroes stored on the disk, mind presents an image (out of nothing)

> for us to work with.

>

> Hence we need to rise above the mind in order to see the actual

> reality. I guess transcendental meditation helps in doing just

that.

> It silences the mind and helps perceive the actual reality which is

> nothing but pure consciousness....

>

> Have a Nice Day!

 

Namaste,

 

thank you for the interesting words....

 

yes....it give not much liberation when one make identification of

oneself with a "computer program"....

mind is like an instrument to perceive the world....

 

to "whom" belong this "instrument"?....

 

i beleive it belong to the real Self.....Brahman....Atman....

means...to "absolut consciousness"....

(there is nothing but Brahman)

 

there are few real Selfs?....

no....there is only one Self existing.....

this One Self is the real existance.....

 

one need to meditate to loose this "instrument"?...to get "absolut

consciousness"?...

 

i think meditation let one be more and more aware of the fact that

one never have been this "instrument" of mind.....

and so...it help to loose the ego-mind

that there is the real nature of Self....which relate all....with

all....

 

meditation is, i beleive, not to loose the mind.....but to loose the

ego-mind....

means...the attachment to the illusion of being this mind

 

detachment to an illusion is at same time attachment to the truth

 

means....absolut consciousness is always present.....

even Maya could not exist without the existance of absolut

consciousness.....

 

maybe to perceive the illusions of Maya Itself...is like to perceive

absolut consciousness

 

only few thoughts.....of the "program"....or from "whom and

whatever"...

 

many thanks for the whole interesting messages in the Group

 

Regards

 

love and peace

 

Marc