Brahmacharya

[Guest guest]

Dear Members,

 

I was thinking to be silent on this issue. But, we are all Sadhakas,

majority of us know the advaita teachings, what we need is the

constant and continuous practice of the sadhanas. This is one of the

main issues of sadhanas.

 

Brahmacharya is a must for the spiritual aspirants. Whatever it may

mean, controlling the five senses are essential, especially

abstaining from sex is must.

 

Even if we argue that Krishna mentioned that Bakthi alone is enough,

what He meant by Bakthi is complete surrender of Andhakarana,

starting from Manas, the head of Indiriyas, Ahamkaram, Intelligence

(Budhi) and memory (sit). When you surrender all these things you

have nothing left for you to dwell including the senses and what is

left is the Brahma njana. Though looks so simple, this Bakthi marga

is the most difficult path. It requires unconditional surrender

without any reasoning.

 

Coming to the point, why is sex so important in controlling? Because,

sex has the capacity to activate all the other four senses. So,

whatever our efforts in controlling the other four senses falls into

pieces once we start sex.

 

We know many rishis had wives but we are not sure whether they had

sex. So, let us not go into that argument, as no one will ever know.

 

Though Mahatam Gandhi is not a brahma njAni, we must read his

Autobiography to know at least how much the practice of brahmachariya

had helped him in his spiritual advancement.

 

Sex is meant only for begetting child.

 

As "Amma" said we should not force to abstain and we should continue

until we can shred off. But, our mind should be focused in finding

ways and means to leave the sex one day. So, slowly we must avoid all

the sexual related matters and one day we should get rid of sex too

completely.

 

Without abstaining from sex, we would be talking for years about the

theories of spirituality and we will never advance a step ahead. Even

if we move 4 steps above and we will fall 5 steps down after sex.

 

Thanks

Solaikannan

[Guest guest]

When the fruit is ripe, it effortlessly falls off the tree... the tree does

not have to shed it. Similarly sensual desires fall off as experiential

self-knowledge ripens.

 

Making Brahmacharya an entry barrier would limit the path to monks and we

see around us that monks are no less driven by other desires & ego than us.

Ramana Maharshi for e.g. always encouraged householders to pursue

self-enquiry.

 

While thats true, its equally true that a realised person would not feel the

need to engage in sex... that desire falls off during the path.

 

Tat tvam asi

(You are that)

 

Sachin

 

----

 

nsolaikannan

06/15/05 15:13:41

advaitin

Brahmacharya

 

Dear Members,

 

I was thinking to be silent on this issue. But, we are all Sadhakas,

majority of us know the advaita teachings, what we need is the

constant and continuous practice of the sadhanas. This is one of the

main issues of sadhanas.

 

Brahmacharya is a must for the spiritual aspirants. Whatever it may

mean, controlling the five senses are essential, especially

abstaining from sex is must.

 

Even if we argue that Krishna mentioned that Bakthi alone is enough,

what He meant by Bakthi is complete surrender of Andhakarana,

starting from Manas, the head of Indiriyas, Ahamkaram, Intelligence

(Budhi) and memory (sit). When you surrender all these things you

have nothing left for you to dwell including the senses and what is

left is the Brahma njana. Though looks so simple, this Bakthi marga

is the most difficult path. It requires unconditional surrender

without any reasoning.

 

Coming to the point, why is sex so important in controlling? Because,

sex has the capacity to activate all the other four senses. So,

whatever our efforts in controlling the other four senses falls into

pieces once we start sex.

 

We know many rishis had wives but we are not sure whether they had

sex. So, let us not go into that argument, as no one will ever know.

 

Though Mahatam Gandhi is not a brahma njAni, we must read his

Autobiography to know at least how much the practice of brahmachariya

had helped him in his spiritual advancement.

 

Sex is meant only for begetting child.

 

As "Amma" said we should not force to abstain and we should continue

until we can shred off. But, our mind should be focused in finding

ways and means to leave the sex one day. So, slowly we must avoid all

the sexual related matters and one day we should get rid of sex too

completely.

 

Without abstaining from sex, we would be talking for years about the

theories of spirituality and we will never advance a step ahead. Even

if we move 4 steps above and we will fall 5 steps down after sex.

 

Thanks

Solaikannan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

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Dear Solaikannan,

Please consider me as a fellow spiritual aspirantwho felt like

saying the following:

Just Like sex acitvating the senses, even on waking up from sleep

the sense get activated. Its the experience that before going to

sleep , there might be peace comming out of meditation for

example,and immediately on waking up all the senses and latent

tendencies rush forth.

I dont think abstaining from sleep is going to help retain the

peace...

The shredding off is in the mind only.

Regards,

Mahesh

 

 

advaitin, "nsolaikannan" <nsolaikannan>

wrote:

> Dear Members,

>

> I was thinking to be silent on this issue. But, we are all

Sadhakas,

> majority of us know the advaita teachings, what we need is the

> constant and continuous practice of the sadhanas. This is one of

the

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr.Mahesh,

 

My main point is controlling the senses. Starting from Gita, it is

advised that we have to control all the 5 senses and mind, that is

dhama (sense control) and sama (mind control) Shankara also in

his "Sadana chatustiyam" mentioned about dhama and sama as the first

sadana for the atmanjana aspirant.

 

Among the 5 sense activities the supreme is sex. Because, while we

eat a food eyes, nose and tongue are fed; while hearing a music ear

is fed. However, in sex all the five sensory organs are fed. So, if

we had controlled the tongue to some extent previously, then while

sex the tongue also awakened. So, I meant by "activating" the feeding

of the senses.

 

If we need not shred the feeding of sensory organs, why then the

scriptures talk about dhama and sama?

 

I was also believing 9 years ago that Knowledge is enough and let us

meditate on this knowledge as Ramana Maharishi did. Whatever may be

my effort I have not moved an inch ahead. So, later, very recently I

realized we are not gifted like Shri Ramana that without sadhanas we

cannot go further.

 

When the sadhanas outlined by Shankara says dhama, sense control,

then we have to control sex too.

 

Waking, dreaming, deep sleep are different states. Our original state

is what we feel in deep sleep. But, we don't realize the bliss of the

deep sleep, while we are awake. That is because of these senses,

mind, ahmkaram. By controlling all these seven we can feel deep sleep

while in the waking state. That is the jeeven muktan state. If we

want to achieve that we have to follow the sadana outlined by

Shankara. This is what Paramachariyal says and that is what I believe.

 

Thanks

Solaikannan

> Dear Solaikannan,

> Please consider me as a fellow spiritual aspirantwho felt like

> saying the following:

> Just Like sex acitvating the senses, even on waking up from sleep

> the sense get activated. Its the experience that before going to

> sleep , there might be peace comming out of meditation for

> example,and immediately on waking up all the senses and latent

> tendencies rush forth.

> I dont think abstaining from sleep is going to help retain the

> peace...

> The shredding off is in the mind only.

> Regards,

> Mahesh

>

>

[Guest guest]

Each of our organ is an independent power generator. While the heart and

other organs use the power for self operation, the sexual energy is idle

most of the time. Also, as technically each of the 90 million sperms can

create a human being, the sexual energy is the most potent of all. Hence if

we are able to generate the energy, sublimate it by yoga, we can achieve

tremendous power.

 

Only my question remains - if I do not activate consciously - then am living

in a sattvic frame, while if i use images and imagination to activate the

same- tamsic waves lash my mind. What is better - sleeping sexual energy or

activation and sublimating?

 

Brahmacharya is surely necessary to retain and utilise this energy for

spiritual purposes.

 

Love

 

Mayank

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr.Mayank,

 

We don't need any power.

 

Power to get what?

 

We don't need any power to become brahmanjAni, which is the ultimate.

So, why do we need power?

 

In fact what many saints say is while we do sadana and while we get

elevated up in our spiritual plane, we will get more sidhis, (power).

If we are bewildered by these powers then we are lost in our

BrahmanjAna path. Indeed, these powers are obstacles for the

BrahmanjAna.

 

Also, we are not talking about the energy involved in the sex

abstinence. It is a disturbance and an obstacle in our path. When we

want to go towards equinity, sex creates lots of vibrations and

turbulences.

 

So the answer for your question of "What is better - sleeping sexual

energy or activation and sublimating?"

 

Neither sleeping "energy" nor power out of sublimating, but to ignore

the feeling altogether and forget that we had such a feeling is the

answer.

 

Thanks

Solaikannan

 

"Mayank Gandhi" :

>

> Each of our organ is an independent power generator. While the

heart and

> other organs use the power for self operation, the sexual energy is

idle

> most of the time. Also, as technically each of the 90 million

sperms can

> create a human being, the sexual energy is the most potent of all.

Hence if

> we are able to generate the energy, sublimate it by yoga, we can

achieve

> tremendous power.

>

> Only my question remains - if I do not activate consciously - then

am living

> in a sattvic frame, while if i use images and imagination to

activate the

> same- tamsic waves lash my mind. What is better - sleeping sexual

energy or

> activation and sublimating?

>

> Brahmacharya is surely necessary to retain and utilise this energy

for

> spiritual purposes.

>

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "nsolaikannan" <nsolaikannan>

wrote:

> Dear Mr.Mahesh,

>

> My main point is controlling the senses. Starting from Gita, it is

> advised that we have to control all the 5 senses and mind, that is

> dhama (sense control) and sama (mind control) Shankara also in

> his "Sadana chatustiyam" mentioned about dhama and sama as the

first

> sadana for the atmanjana aspirant.

>

> Among the 5 sense activities the supreme is sex. Because, while we

> eat a food eyes, nose and tongue are fed; while hearing a music ear

> is fed. However, in sex all the five sensory organs are fed. So, if

> we had controlled the tongue to some extent previously, then while

> sex the tongue also awakened. So, I meant by "activating" the

feeding

> of the senses.

>

> If we need not shred the feeding of sensory organs, why then the

> scriptures talk about dhama and sama?

>

> I was also believing 9 years ago that Knowledge is enough and let

us

> meditate on this knowledge as Ramana Maharishi did. Whatever may be

> my effort I have not moved an inch ahead. So, later, very recently

I

> realized we are not gifted like Shri Ramana that without sadhanas

we

> cannot go further.

>

> When the sadhanas outlined by Shankara says dhama, sense control,

> then we have to control sex too.

>

> Waking, dreaming, deep sleep are different states. Our original

state

> is what we feel in deep sleep. But, we don't realize the bliss of

the

> deep sleep, while we are awake. That is because of these senses,

> mind, ahmkaram. By controlling all these seven we can feel deep

sleep

> while in the waking state. That is the jeeven muktan state. If we

> want to achieve that we have to follow the sadana outlined by

> Shankara. This is what Paramachariyal says and that is what I

believe.

>

> Namaste Solaikannan,

>

thank you for your clear explanations....

i agree with your words....

 

i beleive that by too much activations of the sense organs there is

some energy missing to "enter" in meditation as for example...

whatever one want to reach with body-mind-intellect...it need some

energy...

how could one meditate without the energy of whole body focused

on "God"....the Self.....and no more on any sense organ...

 

i think that this energy is of some "precious" value for a spiritual

person....means, that it's necessary to keep enough energy for the

spiritual path.....instead to loose all of it by activities of the

sense organs

 

when "control" over the sense organs let enough energy for the

spiritual path....there is a better "exchange" of energy with

oneSelf....with kind of "life-energy"....

a better flow of energy from inside to outside and opposite....

 

so, i agree that some "control" of energy is necessary....

 

maybe one day one "automatically" know....at the right time and

moments....what to accept and what to refuse......of energy....and

activities....

 

depending on the environmental circomstances....life is much easier

and more natural.....i mean, in a spiritual way of being

 

this are thoughts only

i keep on being open-minded for the correction of mistakes

 

i wish the group members to keep enough energy for spirituality...and

so....also to keep on writing.......

 

thank you all for your energy and being

 

Regards

 

love and peace

 

Marc

[Guest guest]

Well said.

 

 

 

----

 

nsolaikannan

06/16/05 20:21:18

advaitin

Re: Brahmacharya

 

Dear Mr.Mayank,

 

We don't need any power.

 

Power to get what?

 

We don't need any power to become brahmanjAni, which is the ultimate.

So, why do we need power?

 

In fact what many saints say is while we do sadana and while we get

elevated up in our spiritual plane, we will get more sidhis, (power).

If we are bewildered by these powers then we are lost in our

BrahmanjAna path. Indeed, these powers are obstacles for the

BrahmanjAna.

 

Also, we are not talking about the energy involved in the sex

abstinence. It is a disturbance and an obstacle in our path. When we

want to go towards equinity, sex creates lots of vibrations and

turbulences.

 

So the answer for your question of "What is better - sleeping sexual

energy or activation and sublimating?"

 

Neither sleeping "energy" nor power out of sublimating, but to ignore

the feeling altogether and forget that we had such a feeling is the

answer.

 

Thanks

Solaikannan

 

"Mayank Gandhi" :

>

> Each of our organ is an independent power generator. While the

heart and

> other organs use the power for self operation, the sexual energy is

idle

> most of the time. Also, as technically each of the 90 million

sperms can

> create a human being, the sexual energy is the most potent of all.

Hence if

> we are able to generate the energy, sublimate it by yoga, we can

achieve

> tremendous power.

>

> Only my question remains - if I do not activate consciously - then

am living

> in a sattvic frame, while if i use images and imagination to

activate the

> same- tamsic waves lash my mind. What is better - sleeping sexual

energy or

> activation and sublimating?

>

> Brahmacharya is surely necessary to retain and utilise this energy

for

> spiritual purposes.

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of

Atman and Brahman.

Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe

com/culture/advaitin/

To Post a message send an email to : advaitin

Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin/

 

 

advaitin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Important note from Moderators: It is suggested that we

close this topic. But since many would want to still say a

last word, let each member restrict himself/herself to only

one last post on this topic. This itself would be a good

discipline – of course far easier than the discipline of

Brahmacharya we are talking about! VK’s post below is the

last post on this topic!

--------------------------

 

Namaste

 

This debate on Brahmacharya could go on and on, because it

concerns one of the most powerful weaknesses of mankind.

Half a century ago perhaps it was not difficult to live in

the world and still observe strict brahmacharya

injunctions. But in modern times, to come anywhere near the

definition of brahmacharya of our shastras one's living

conditions must be equivalent to a monastery because all of

the media are full of images of sexuality. One may need to

essentially disconnect from that and also from general

society where people are always talking about it, dressing

scantily, etc. Swami Muktananda was once asked whether one

should avoid eating garlic and onions because they were

sexually stimulating, and he replied that the sexual

stimulation of modern society was far greater than that due

to garlic and onions, thus there was no practical reason to

avoid them.

 

For the spiritual path anything that disturbs the

equanimity of mind has to be shunned. It could be TV, it

could be onions, it could be the internet, it could be

sex.

 

It would be a shock, for us who live in the 21st century,

to read some of the injunctions that the shAstras prescribe

for observance of brahmacharya. Here are some quotes from

Srimad Bhagavatam on this matter:

 

strINAM niriKshhaNa-sparsha-samlApa-kshhvelanAdhikaM /

prANino mithunI-bhUtAn agRRihastho’gratas-tyajet //(XI – 17

– 33)

Meaning, He who is not a householder should give up the

sight and touch of womankind, conversation and joking, etc.

with them and should even avoid coming face to face with

living beings sexually united.

 

Any one other than a householder, who has undertaken a

great vow of continence, should shun all talk of women; for

the senses which are turbulent by nature forcibly carry

away with them the mind. (VII – 12 – 7).

 

An adult student should never have such personal service as

the combing of his hair, massaging and washing of his body

done by the young wives of his teachers. (VII – 12 – 8).

 

It is a truism indeed that a young woman is like a fire

and a man is akin to a jar full of ghee. One should avoid

the presence of even one’s daughter when she is all by

herself. At other times one should remain with her only so

long as it is absolutely necessary. (VII – 12 – 9)

 

Until one has mastered his self, having clearly apprehended

through self-realization that all this body etc. is only

illusory, the sense of duality does not cease. And from

that indeed follows the perversity of the embodied being.

(VII – 12 – 10).

 

Once a devotee asked Swami Prabhavananda of the Ramakrishna

Order: “Would you comment on the part sex plays in

religion?”. And he replied:

 

“The sex energy, if it is not dissipated, plays a great

part in religion. It becomes transmuted into spiritual

energy when it is conserved. What does conservation mean?

Overcoming lust. You see, there is one great obstacle to

spiritual life; that is lust. He who has conquered lust has

gained mastery over himself and the world. Now a wall has

no lust. But that does not mean that this wall is a saint!

But there is lust in man in order that he may overcome it

and become a saint.”

 

Well did Krishna say (in Ch.7 #3 of the Gita) :

Among thousands of men scarcely one strives for perfection

and of those who strive and succeed, scarcely one knows Me

in truth.

 

PraNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

 

 

 

Prof. V. Krishnamurthy

 

New on my website, particularly for beginners in Hindu philosophy:

Empire of the Mind:

http://www.geocities.com/profvk/HNG/ManversusMind.html

 

Free will and Divine will - a dialogue:

http://www.geocities.com/profvk/HNG/FWDW.html