Reply to various mails of "Non sums"

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr.Non sums,

 

Thank you very much indeed for all your mails. I am really enjoying

your mails. The very reason I joined this group is to do the sandana.

So, I am enquiring more in this mail and I am not refuting or arguing

with you in any manner. If I sound so, my apologies in advance.

 

You said, NS: Everything, except our Self-experience, comes to our

mind via the imperfect senses and the brain's interpretation of them.

`Dream world,' `external world,' `any world at all,' who's to know

the truth of maya? But, take away all of your senses, silence your

thoughts and feelings, and still there is one unshakable constant, "I

Am."

 

Our Question is: How to take away "all of your senses" and

silence "your thought and feelings"? Isn't it we need certain efforts

when we want to "take away" and "silence"?

 

We know from the teachings of Shankara and Ramanamaharishi that there

is no moksha or self realization or liberation or destination to

reach outside, it is knowing our own real state.

 

I have also Seen of my very Being, when I took away all of my senses

and silenced my thoughts and feelings. Sometimes I am on that state

for hours and days. But, then when we confront the day-to-day

business, the maya takes over us, we are again lost in the

egoistic "I". Though, I drag it on the state of my original being

during the course of the day, most of the time I am lost on the day

to day business. If I am not reading spiritual books and if I am not

associated with people like you, then the gap between the Known state

and Unknown state is enlarging.

 

So, honestly, I need to know from you all, how to be on that `Being'

state for 24 hours, 7 days and 365 ¼ days.

 

I didn't mean anything new by "Tools".

 

In order to take away our senses, and silence our thoughts and

feelings, we need to read the spiritual books,(shravana); think about

what is taught in the books and gurus, (manana); and meditate on the

Truth that I am the Brahman, (nidhiyasana). Without thinking of dama

and sama we cannot take away the senses. These are the paths laid

down by Shankara.

 

During the last 20 years, though you didn't feel the Being state, I

don't think you had wasted these 20 years. You might have done some

efforts or researchs, only by those efforts you are able to be in

that Being state now.

 

Hope to hear more from you to be in the Being state for ever.

 

Thanks

Solaikannan

[Guest guest]

Hello, Mr. Solaikannan,

(My `nom de web' is Non Sum. `NS' is fine. No `Mr' is required. :-)

 

I thank you, N Solaikannan, for your, and the other's, kind responses

to this new and eager member. It's always nice to be welcomed by

just discovered friends.

 

Solaikannan: I am enquiring more in this mail and I am not refuting

or arguing with you in any manner. If I sound so, my apologies in

advance.

 

NS: This is fine, but so is `refutation,' and (polite) `argument.' I

love the heat of debate and impassioned commitment on the quest for

Truth! If you see holes in what I say, please feel free to tear into

them. I'll love you for the favor.

 

S: Our Question is:

 

NS: Is this the royal "Our," or are you several?

 

S: How to take away "all of your senses" and silence "your thought

and feelings"? Isn't it we need certain efforts when we want to "take

away" and "silence"?

 

NS: My meaning was intended as imaginative. For instance, imagine

yourself as blind (or simply close your eyes—if you consider

yourself `imagination challenged.').

Now that you can no longer `see' your body, I ask `sightless you,'

are you in essence diminished in any way? Are you half the man, or

woman, that you were pre-blindness, deafness, etc.? Let's get

rough. Let's hack off (amputate) a few limbs of yours. We've

certainly diminished your body (always nice to lose some weight), but

have `You' been lessened?

 

My intention in all this cruelty is only to indicate an "Experience"

that you are `having' (actually, that you `Are') at all times, 24 X 7

X 365 ¼. This ongoing `Presence to your own Self To your Self' is

entirely independent of all external events, such as sense perception

or cognition.

 

"Discriminate between Atman and non-Atman. Atman dwells within,

free

from attachment, beyond all action. Separate this Atman from every

object of experience." (Shankara)

 

Shankara asks us to "discriminate," but how can we if we don't

perceive the objects, and their differences, between which we are to

discriminate? The answer is that we are aware of them, since both

types of objects are within our E/experience, and

their `differences' are screamingly obvious to anyone who cares to

compare.

 

S: We know from the teachings of Shankara and Ramanamaharishi that

there is no moksha or self realization or liberation or destination

to reach outside, it is knowing our own real state.

 

NS: Exactly so! What is often unknown, or ignored, is that `jiva

mukta' is Not liberation Of the jiva, but FROM the jiva. Jivas don't

get Enlightened, and this is why Gautama "simply gave up." And, in

giving up his hopeless self, Buddha was left with nothing; not even

hope. When you have nothing, and are no one particular, then you

fall back into what is essential and can never be lost, i.e. your

naked Self. Only the `naked Self' is the Real Self.

 

S: I have also Seen of my very Being, when I took away all of my

senses

and silenced my thoughts and feelings. Sometimes I am on that state

for hours and days.

 

NS: This is excellent, and I heartedly congratulate you for your good

fortune!

I only question your calling it a "state." Can your "very Being," be

a `state' into which `You' can be flung into or out of? Who would

you Be when out of your own Being? I don't question your experience,

but I do question your conception of it. Such a conception can cause

unnecessary confusion, and give you (untrue) misconceptions of your

(True) Self. Not good. ;- )

 

"The fool thinks, "I am the body". The intelligent man thinks, "I

am

an individual soul united with the body". The wise man thinks, "I am

Brahman". (Shankara)

 

S: during the course of the day, most of the time I am lost on the day

to day business. If I am not reading spiritual books and if I am not

associated with people like you, then the gap between the Known state

and Unknown state is enlarging.

 

NS: I understand. My jivan mind too, enjoys the pleasure of sat-

sang, Gita, and satvic consciousness. But, Spirit (Atman) is not

something (mood, thought) held in a jiva's mind; more the

contrapositive. A human mind is by nature unsteady and narrowly

focused (usually one object at a time). If you attempt to hold

something steady with the unsteady mind, you're doomed from the

start. Please believe me, there is nothing Real requiring your shaky

mind to `hold' it. If it is Real, then it will be constant and

unchanging, and totally present, at all times. Look deeply and see

if you can find this Experience of `I' that has never altered while

jivan you was an infant, child, teenager, and adult.

 

S: In order to take away our senses, and silence our thoughts and

feelings, we need to read the spiritual books,(shravana); think about

what is taught in the books and gurus, (manana); and meditate on the

Truth that I am the Brahman, (nidhiyasana).

 

NS: I call all of this,' pleasures of the mind,' and (more

usefully) `map reading.'

Yes, read the map, study it closely, But then put it in your pocket

and step off into the journey itself. Senses don't need to be

literally removed from the poor jiva. Leave the jiva alone (it is

not your enemy), but, by all means, `Leave' the jiva.

 

S: During the last 20 years, though you didn't feel the Being state, I

don't think you had wasted these 20 years. You might have done some

efforts or researchs, only by those efforts you are able to be in

that Being state now.

 

NS: I began my search at about 13, declaring to one and all that I

was now Zen Buddhist. I even had it on my dog-tags in the Marine

Corp. I was a seeker for another 26 years (ashrams, gurus, all sorts

of sadhana, intense reading). The frustration brought me to the

point of considering suicide. Seeking Spirit is not all peace and

pranams, I don't care who you are! It can hurt so bad that it will

kill you. And, this is just what you should want—to die to the un-

real self that can never become Realized.

You raise good points! I'm sorry to go on so long.

Peace, NS (Noodle Soup)