Hindu Article-Strive for liberation

[Guest guest]

Strive for liberation

 

 

 

CHENNAI: : The spiritual tradition asserts that the scriptures are

the ultimate authority for gaining spiritual knowledge and so

scriptural study has to be undertaken by every seeker. But, the

Upanishads also emphasise that the Self has to be experienced, and

Self-knowledge cannot be taught and learnt like other disciplines.

Such contradictory statements are bound to confuse the beginner. In

rationalisation the intellect develops the argument based on

secondary sources but the Self has to be perceived directly.

 

To reach this level one has to study the scriptures and proceed step

by step. It is only reiterated that the Ultimate Reality is to be

known from one's own experience. Therein lies the beauty of Vedanta,

which vests every seeker with the choice to realise God for himself.

It is to remove doubts that one must turn to God-realised saints who

will clarify from their experience. When Vivekananda approached Sri

Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and asked him if he had seen God, he replied

that he had and that he could also realise Him.

 

In his discourse, Swami Atmashraddhananda said every spiritual

aspirant had to undergo self-discipline to realise God. There is a

well-known dictum in spiritual lore, which states, "God comes to you

when you are ready." This adage emphasises at once the necessity of

self-effort and divine grace for attaining spiritual knowledge.

Divine grace cannot be explained rationally but it can be seen

practically from the lives of the God-realised that it is not

possible to experience God by self-effort alone. This is another

paradox which one can appreciate only if when one "lives" the

spiritual life. A child's psychology is best illustrative of this

paradox. When one asks it to part with its toy it will not and it

will give only when it feels like. Similarly, no one can do anything

about the ambiguity in the operation of divine grace. Man can only

strive for liberation and pray.

 

This is bound to raise the question, "Why should I pursue the

spiritual path if there is no certainty that I will realise God?"

Without adopting the spiritual path man cannot find peace because

engagement of the senses and the mind in the world is fraught with

moments of sorrow. Man cannot find eternal bliss until he disciplines

his mind and the senses, and directs his search within.

 

copy right: The Hindu-daily

[Guest guest]

Hello B Vaidyanathan,

Thank you, for offering this beautifully written article. I enjoyed

it immensely. Please allow me to offer some small critique.

 

Chennai: There is a

well-known dictum in spiritual lore, which states, "God comes to you

when you are ready." This adage emphasises at once the necessity of

self-effort and divine grace for attaining spiritual knowledge.

 

NS: This is one possible interpretation of the `adage.' Another is

to understand that `God, guna, or Tao' is the only possible `doer.'

If "God comes," it is Her will and effort to come, and not mine.

If "I am ready," it is God's will and effort that makes me ready.

There is No role in this for me, nor is there any `me' in this role.

Our `role-less role' is to "be still and know that `I' am God." What

is "stillness," you wisely ask?

 

"Stillness is total surrender without a vestige of

individuality." (Ramana)

 

Chennai: This is bound to raise the question, "Why should I pursue

the spiritual path if there is no certainty that I will realise God?"

 

NS: One may be inexperienced enough to ask this naïve question, but

it would make no difference how they perceived its answer. No

one "chooses" this burning desire that will ebb and flow, but never

leave them until it destroys them. You can try to quit, and go back

to being worldly. That would be like trying to quit growing older.

 

Chennai: Without adopting the spiritual path man cannot find peace

because

engagement of the senses and the mind in the world is fraught with

moments of sorrow.

 

NS: The `mind, senses, man, and world of sorrow' are all `mind

alone.' Trying to select out one and leave another is a case of mind

deluding mind. Worlds come as dualities. You don't have a world of

peace without a world that also contains sorrow. To enjoy one is to

invite its opposite. Hate `peace and sorrow'; they are not 2.

 

Chennai: Man cannot find eternal bliss until he disciplines his mind

and the senses, and directs his search within.

 

NS: Take the phenomenal world (which includes the `man' one mistakes

themselves for) as a dream. Now, imagine our dream man as deciding

to do spiritual yoga. He spends (dream) decades in ever improving

practice. Then, somewhere an alarm goes off, and he awakens into an

entirely different dream, and as an entirely differently motivated

man. What is all this `yoga dreaming nonsense' to him? What gains

did he make by all that effort? Do the hungry gain nutrition from

dreaming of rich meals? Don't make dream effort; Wake Up, instead.

Sat Nam, NS

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "nonsums" <nonsums> wrote:

invite its opposite. Hate `peace and sorrow'; they are not 2.

>

> Chennai: Man cannot find eternal bliss until he disciplines his

mind

> and the senses, and directs his search within.

>

> NS: Take the phenomenal world (which includes the `man' one

mistakes

> themselves for) as a dream. Now, imagine our dream man as

deciding

> to do spiritual yoga. He spends (dream) decades in ever improving

> practice. Then, somewhere an alarm goes off, and he awakens into

an

> entirely different dream, and as an entirely differently motivated

> man. What is all this `yoga dreaming nonsense' to him? What

gains

> did he make by all that effort? Do the hungry gain nutrition from

> dreaming of rich meals? Don't make dream effort; Wake Up, instead.

> Sat Nam, NS

 

Namaste,NS,

 

First a different point, in my previous message, I said Deva Prema,

I meant Deva Premal and Miten. My daughter used her chant of the

Gayatri at her wedding dinner, as a Grace.

 

Now to NS. It is good that you are questioning, statements by Sages

even. However you are not looking into the background and lead up to

these statements. This is what I call Vndism or 'verbal non

dualism 'without Sadhana. Much cleansing of mind sheaths is required

through Sadhana to be able to realise what one already has an

inkling of. Even Ramana alludes to a certain mental maturity to be

able to even wish to practice self enquiry.

 

You are right in what you say but you are ignoring the fact it is

mind talking and full of samskaras and vasanas, which have to be

totally removed and Vindism won't cut it.............ONS...Tony.

[Guest guest]

Hi again Tony,

 

Tony: It is good that you are questioning, statements by Sages even.

 

NS: Actually, I'm not all that original. I am questioning Sages with

other Sages. I am also questioning obvious contradictions, which can

be made by any of us. No true "sage" would be so foolish as to

invoke a "Rule of Infallibility" for herself. Nor, should we be so

foolish as to invoke it for them.

 

Tony: However you are not looking into the background and lead up to

these statements.

 

NS: If "these statements" are in fact from a true sage, then I can

honestly claim that I certainly am looking into the very source of

these statements. But, please remember, only our imperfect minds can

attempt to give verbal expression to that which (as Lao tse reminds

us) "can never be said."

 

Tony: This is what I call Vndism or 'verbal non dualism 'without

Sadhana.

 

NS: What does this statement mean? That I have never done Sadhana?

That my non-dualism is "verbal," and not what? I apologize if I am

being dense, Tony, but you must clarify this for me.

 

Tony: Much cleansing of mind sheaths is required through Sadhana to

be able to realise what one already has an inkling of.

 

NS: Yes, this is a widely held opinion throughout all of mysticism.

And so is the opposing opinion. In Zen it is called `brick polishing

in order to make a mirror.' In Christianity it would be called `a

lack of faith in the power of God.' And in Advaita too, there are

many (including Ramana) who hold that `doing Sadhana' is

counterproductive. We both have source material from reliable

sources, and our own experience, to support our disparate views. I

merely ask you to examine the obvious contradictions inherent in your

view. Such as: this is a dream, all attached doing binds, you are a

Self—not a mind or jiva, and many more. Until you adequately address

these `Sadhana contradictions' you are the one who is (as you say of

me) "ignoring facts."

 

Tony: Even Ramana alludes to a certain mental maturity to be able to

even wish to practice self enquiry.

 

NS: Of course, but "mental maturity" is not made by doing exercises.

 

Tony: You are right in what you say but you are ignoring the fact it

is mind talking and full of samskaras and vasanas, which have to be

totally removed

 

NS: Your conclusion (last 6 words) are not supported by your

premise. If a mind, or a closet, is full of #$%^@, that does not

prove that it must be totally removed. What makes you think that you

are a mind? Did your mind tell you so? Your body also possesses a

stomach. Should you first empty it in order to be who you truly

are? You are failing to make a clear (necessary or sufficient?)

connection between Sadhana and Self-realization. Please try to

establish one, if you are able.

 

Have a free gift of a quote from Nisargadatta (I have one from

Meister Eckhart that is a near twin):

 

Q: "I want reality here and now. Can I have it?"

M: "Of course you can, provided you are really fed up with

everything, including your `sadhanas'. When you demand nothing of

the world, nor of God, when you want nothing, seek nothing, expect

nothing then the Supreme State will come to you uninvited and

unexpected!" (`I Am That,' p195)

Peace, NS

 

 

advaitin, "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote:

> advaitin, "nonsums" <nonsums> wrote:

> invite its opposite. Hate `peace and sorrow'; they are not 2.

> >

> > Chennai: Man cannot find eternal bliss until he disciplines his

> mind

> > and the senses, and directs his search within.

> >

> > NS: Take the phenomenal world (which includes the `man' one

> mistakes

> > themselves for) as a dream. Now, imagine our dream man as

> deciding

> > to do spiritual yoga. He spends (dream) decades in ever

improving

> > practice. Then, somewhere an alarm goes off, and he awakens into

> an

> > entirely different dream, and as an entirely differently

motivated

> > man. What is all this `yoga dreaming nonsense' to him? What

> gains

> > did he make by all that effort? Do the hungry gain nutrition

from

> > dreaming of rich meals? Don't make dream effort; Wake Up,

instead.

> > Sat Nam, NS

>

> Namaste,NS,

>

> First a different point, in my previous message, I said Deva Prema,

> I meant Deva Premal and Miten. My daughter used her chant of the

> Gayatri at her wedding dinner, as a Grace.

>

> Now to NS. It is good that you are questioning, statements by Sages

> even. However you are not looking into the background and lead up

to

> these statements. This is what I call Vndism or 'verbal non

> dualism 'without Sadhana. Much cleansing of mind sheaths is

required

> through Sadhana to be able to realise what one already has an

> inkling of. Even Ramana alludes to a certain mental maturity to be

> able to even wish to practice self enquiry.

>

> You are right in what you say but you are ignoring the fact it is

> mind talking and full of samskaras and vasanas, which have to be

> totally removed and Vindism won't cut it.............ONS...Tony.