does the world disapper - knowledge vs mystical experience

[Guest guest]

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After realization, only the notions that world is real

and I am separate from the world, etc disappears. I

will still see the plurality but I will not have the

delusion that plurality is real.

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Hello,

 

I have a question regarding the above.

 

For mystics, the importance is on gaining a mystical

experience (like say nirvikalpa samadhi for the

followers of the yoga-sutras). In this experience,

they are physically experiencing something beyond what

we usually experience.

 

In Advaita, is a realized person experiencing

something like the above, or does he only have

knowledge about Reality? Or, does he have both?

 

Regards,

Mayuresh.

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hello Mayuresh,

Mayuresh: For mystics, the importance is on gaining a mystical

experience (like say nirvikalpa samadhi for the followers of the yoga-

sutras). In this experience,

they are physically experiencing something beyond what we usually

experience.

 

Ns: You're right, everyone is looking to experience something

unusual. That's what keeps Disney's World spinning. But, `Mystics'

are often jaded by rollercoaster rides, and most other `worldly'

thrills besides. This insatiable breed wants some grand cosmic blast-

off. With a bit of luck, these too can come, …and will surely go.

 

"'Everything' that comes, will also go." (Ramana)

 

The way of the worlds, even cosmic ones, is: if you chase after

the `ups' you'll keep falling into the `downs.' This spinning around

on a wheel of ups and downs can all get very old and tiresome. Even

the grand samahdis are just more of the same-old, and will keep you

pinned solid to that endless, repetitive cycle. There is an old Zen

saying, "Have just one samahdi, and you fly straight to hell like an

arrow." The `mystic' who comes to see this is ready to leave all

experiences behind.

 

If he no longer has experiences, that would mean that either he is

dead or he has ceased to believe in his heart that he is a creature

that can have experiences. He cannot deny that he exists, but it is

in everyone's power to deny that they exist AS `this' or as `that'

particular object. A denial such as this makes him a complete `no-

thing' that stands within his own nothingness, experiencing nothing

but him-Self.

An odd Experience, you must admit.

 

Obviously, this makes for quite a radical shift of one's living

perspective. Ramana said, "You live in the Self, not in the world."

Our `nothing man' now lives 24 X 7 disembodied. Yes, there remains a

fully conscious jiva throughout, but the landlord has left the (body,

mind, acts) premises entirely vacant. Now, two perspectives: a

creature in the world, and a Self-centered Self, centered solely in

its Self. We all make a choice (whether we know it or not) as to

which perspective is really `us.' Listen to Nisargadatta speak from

jiva mukta (liberation `From' a jiva):

 

"In your world I would be most miserable. To wake up, to eat, to

talk, to sleep again—what a bother!"

 

"Yes, I appear to hear and see and talk and act, but to me it just

happens, as to you digestion, or perspiration happens. The body-

mind machine looks after it, but leaves me out of it. Just as you do

not need to worry about growing hair, so I need not worry about words

and actions. They just happen and leave me unconcerned, for in my

world nothing ever goes wrong."

 

NS: That's the sound of detachment, and detachment beats out all the

cosmic experiences and rides that Disney ever dreamed of.

Namaste, Non Sum

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "nonsums" <nonsums> wrote:

> Hello Mayuresh,

> Mayuresh: For mystics, the importance is on gaining a mystical

> experience (like say nirvikalpa samadhi for the followers of the

yoga-

> sutras). In this experience,

> they are physically experiencing something beyond what we usually

> experience.

>

> Ns: You're right, everyone is looking to experience something

> unusual. That's what keeps Disney's World spinning. But, `Mystics'

> are often jaded by rollercoaster rides, and most other `worldly'

> thrills besides. This insatiable breed wants some grand cosmic

blast-

> off. With a bit of luck, these too can come, …and will surely go.

 

 

Namaste,

 

Actually Mystics are really seeking non-experience, or experience some

with an ego/mind. Nir Vikalpa or Nir Guna means No Mind, No Modes,

etc. This is the whole purpose of a Guru to encourage less activity

not more. So Mystics wish to awaken to the fact that they are Nirguna

and this never happened at all, not even the dream of

it....ONS...Tony.

[Guest guest]

Hi Tony,

You are 100% correct as regards a true 'mystic.' I was addressing the

instance of "mystic" that Mayuresh described; a not uncommon breed,

actually. I would be willing to bet the majority of mystic seekers

begin (and long persist) by seeking a dazzling experience for, and had

by, their jiva.

 

The quote you excerped does go on to describe that a genuine mystic

eventually comes to tire and despair of being an experience junkie,

however cosmic its promise may be. Then we have an entirely

different 'mystic' than the one Mayuresh introduced.

 

"After the ecstacy, the laundry." (Zen monk saying)

NS (No Starch)