Does the world disappear?

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

Thank you all for the very absorbing notes on “Whether

the World Disappear or not” on disappearance of

self-ignorance.

Whether the “World Disappears” or not - some of my

doubts got disappeared! Thank you all very much.

 

Whether the world appears or not, all that matters is;

until the prarabdha gets exhausted, Self Knowledge

helps one to remain more or less calm, abiding in his

own Swaroopa, Sat Chit Ananda, while he is in

vyavahara. This happens, and, as one gets established

in That Knowledge, the shad oormies, kama, krodha,

moha, lobha, mada and matsarya, slowly though in

degrees, leave him alone, or they will not have much

effect on that blessed person. He knows for certain

that the world is “as if” (iva) there and that the

as-if-world makes him as-if happy, and/or as-if sad,

etc.

I can now see that the world can no more bind me or

release me, because any such binding or releasing are

all “as-ifs”, as I know that for certain, just like I

know that it is the earth that rotates (as–if) the sun

and not the other way around, though it appears so,

i.e. as-if the sun rotates the earth. I can no more be

fooled, and even if I am fooled, it is only as-if I am

fooled, (I can laugh at me for that) by the

“appearance of sun rising and setting”. I can marvel

and enjoy the magic being staged by Maya. (I wonder

whether that marveling is also as-if marveling! Must

be!)

 

Swami Chinmayanandji used to tell a story.

One young shepherd was roaming in a forest with his

sheep. There were eight sheep. It was getting dark,

but he did not notice it for some time. Suddenly, he

noticed that and felt quite worried, as his village

happened to be in a far away place. He wanted to find

some shelter in the forest to spend the night, and at

last reached the hut of a rishi, saint. He took

permission of the rishi to spend the night there. He

wanted some ropes to tie his sheep and asked the rishi

to provide some. With the rope that he got from the

rishi, he tied seven of his animals and he had no rope

to tie the eighth one. He wanted some more rope, but

the rishi could not provide as he had already given

whatever he had. The young man got worried and he

wanted to tie the eighth sheep also lest it ran away

at night. The rishi told him to tie the sheep to a

tree as if he was tying, just like he did with the

other sheep, but with no rope. The man wanted to know

whether it would work and the rishi told him to do

what exactly he was asked and to see what happened. He

did the gesture of tying, and the poor animal got

as-if tied to a tree. Next morning, the man untied all

the sheep and drove them down the hill. The eighth one

would never budge an inch. He got worried and asked

the rishi what to do. The rishi told him to make the

gesture of untying it in the same way he tied it, i.e.

untie it as if he was untying it. He could not

understand what the rishi was talking, but respecting

his words, he tried that and lo, the sheep joined the

other animals and started walking with them.

For *as-if tying* there is *as-if untying*!

 

As for me, I do not know what exactly will happen

after the body leaves me or I drop the body, if at all

I have a body from the point of absolute reality. Till

then, I have to carry on as-if I have a body and do

vyavahara, also as-if. I can do that with That

Knowledge in the core of my intellect that I am as-if

playing roles only as I am expected as ordained by

the “prarabdha”. Such an approach if I am blessed

with, is also only the play of prarabdha.

 

It is a blessing that there is Advaita Group and

E.media for such wonderful satsangha, though

everything is as-if only, yes fir As-if-advitins!.

 

With pranams to all

R.S.Mani

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani> wrote:

> Namaste,

> Thank you all for the very absorbing notes on "Whether

> the World Disappear or not" on disappearance of

> self-ignorance.

> Whether the "World Disappears" or not - some of my

> doubts got disappeared! Thank you all very much.

>

> Swami Chinmayanandji used to tell a story.

> One young shepherd was roaming in a forest with his

> sheep.

 

Namaste

 

You can depend upon Swami Chinmayananda to give us these telling

stories to bring home the philosophical truths! Thanks, Mani, for

recalling this story for us.

 

PraNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

[Guest guest]

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advaitin, bhaskar.yr@i... wrote:

> jnAni is not bound by any karma (action)/karma phala (fruits of

action)

> whatsoever...saMpUrNa vAsAna kshaya & Atyantika karma phala nAsha

happen

 

 

Namaste,

 

My thinking is quite simple and non dialectic.

 

The body of the Jnani plays out the Prarabda Karma, and of course

the Ego isn't there anymore to receive it or create it.

The problem arises in confusing the apples with the oranges. That is

talking about absolutes and relativity in one sentence.

 

Many seem to 'hang on to the appearance', seeming not to wish to let

go of 'something mental and tangible'. It is quite frightening to

some people to realise that nothing ever happened, for it takes away

preconceived notions of Brahman having attributes.

 

I always find this strange since people are in deep sleep everynight

with no world. It is only the 'primal fear' that prevents people

from accepting the concept of Nir Guna and Non Manifestation.

 

Why we have a rope being mistaken for a snake and there isn't any

rope in the first place is beyond me. However deduction and the

words of the Sages indicate this truth. For all appearance is mind

and mind doesn't exist.............ONS...Tony.

[Guest guest]

Hello to everyone, this will be my first post here.

 

I wanted to answer the original question, but apparently, it has been

for some time now on the list.

 

That is why I will not base my answer in previous ones, surely done

with more expertise than me.

 

So, Does the world dissapear?

 

Yes! and No!

 

What was "the world" is still there, but it is not called "the world"

anymore. In all fairness it is impossible to talk about the subject

from "this side", all what words can transmit is incomplete and do not

properly express what should be said.

 

One has to be "there" to understand.

 

_________

Thinking is what a great many people think they are doing

when they are simply rearranging their prejudices

 

-William James

[Guest guest]

praNAm Sri Tony prabhuji

Hare Krishna

 

This would be my last post on this topic.......

 

Since we donot (atleast me) have any authority to speak about the state of

realized one...we've to go by shruti vAkya & gurUpadEsha to understand the

would be state of a jnAni!!. Based on AptavAkya & shruti siddhAnta, I

think we can talk on jnAni's state of realization which is devoid of all

types of upAdhi-s. In this regard, we cannot anyway fancy our imagination

& use our conditioned mind's logic to determine that state...

 

As we all know, when it comes to paramArtha realization, sadEha/jIvan/sadyO

mukti is the highlight of shankara's advaita siddhAnta. Infact, sadEha &

vidEha is the main difference between shankara's advaita & other dualistic

schools as far as final emancipation is concerned!! If the ultimate

knowledge is attainable only after the fall of body...then nobody would

have been there to convey us the paramArthya jnAna. Shankara in all

through his bhAshya-s categorically says that advaita paramArtha jnAna is

to be realised in this very life & absolute salvation is not an after

*death* state. As said earlier, bruhadAraNyaka shruti is also emphasizing

how the socalled *body* is immaterial to the brahma jnAni.

Kindly refer maNtra "tadyathAhinirlvayanI valmikE mrutA pratyasthA

shayItaivaM Evedagam sharIram SEtEthAyAm *asharIrOmrutaH prANo brahmaiva

tEja Eva!!* It is more clear when shankara writes commentary on this

maNtra. He says *yasmAt na hi tasyAbrahmatva paricchEda hEtavaH kAmAh

santi tasmAt *ehaiva brahmaiva san brahmApyEti na sharIrapAtOttarakAlam*.

brahmajnAni after the dawn of ultimate knowledge will not come

under the influence of upAdhi-s, he realises that HE was/is/will be brahman

forever in entireity. So, for a jnAni who has upAdhirahita jnAna hardly

identifies himself with dEhAtma bhuddhi. shankara further says in sUtra

bhAshya *samyagdarshana kAlamEva tatphalaM sarvAtmatvam darshayati*.

 

With regard to binding of prArabdha karma even after realization, I dont

think anywhere shankara says that brahman/jnAni is bound by karma

phala....as we know,the realization is connected only with the soul, how

does it matter whether the body of that realized soul is present or not &

how can karma phala accrued through that body can influence the *body* of a

jnAni?? As we all know, according to advaita, mOksha is only the

eradication of wrong knowledge / avidyA. This happens only by the rise of

Knowledge and nothing else to be happened & nothing else to attain..jnAni

need not have to *wait* for the fall of his body to realize it. Shankara

says as mentioned above this is a state which can be achieved even while in

the body. After realisation, whether the body is there or not is

immaterial, whether karma phala-s still holding sway on jnAni's body or not

is hardly matters!!....Kindly refer again shankara's brhadAraNyaka shruti

bhAshya wherein he explicitly declares that the liberation will happen

living in this very body & it does not require such things as going to some

place or exhausting the karma phala which was accrued at pre-jnAna period.

 

And finally, neither karma nor karma phala can affect a jnAni who is beyond

all sorts of actions (there is no doership. enjoyership (kartru-bhOktru

bhAva). He is Brahman which transcends all change, void of any

modifications. nor time, past, present and future, can approach him since

his is kAlAtIta jnAna.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

advaitin, bhaskar.yr@i... wrote:

..Kindly refer again shankara's brhadAraNyaka shruti

> bhAshya wherein he explicitly declares that the liberation will

happen

> living in this very body & it does not require such things as

going to some

> place or exhausting the karma phala which was accrued at pre-jnAna

period.

>

> And finally, neither karma nor karma phala can affect a jnAni who

is beyond

> all sorts of actions (there is no doership. enjoyership (kartru-

bhOktru

> bhAva).

 

Namaste Bji,

 

I try not to get too caught up in literal texts, and I try to think

for myself. Sometimes not so well.

 

Becoming a Mukta or Jnani the Ego is gone, but the body/mind still

has to play out the prarabda karma. This doesn't contradict Sankara,

as the body is just that, not an ego anymore. This is supported by

the statements of sages too much in number to quote here.

 

My last statement is for the newcomer James?, who doesn't seem to

have really read the posts.

The yes and no of creation existing after Moksha is a definate no!

It is even gone in deep sleep. The creation only exists for the

body/mind of the erstwhile ego, as the Mukta has moved on so to

speak. I say no for this in itself is an illusion that didn't

happen. I know people say the creation turns into an appearance of

the Self on realisation. However this it also untimately untrue.

 

There is only Nir Guna Brahman, and that was never modified by

anything appearance or anything.IMHO---It never

happened.....ONS..Tony.