If you reach a non-dual state, is there a comeback?

[Guest guest]

Greetings all.

 

As far as I know, once the advaitin reaches the non-dual state there

is no turning back. Its a permanent state. Still, I have to ask if

this is true in the experience of the members of this forum or their

teachers.

 

Also, I would like to know if it is possible for one to reach that

state but find no peace nor transcend all human feelings.

 

Why do I ask?

 

Someday, more than ten years ago, I was driving my car home when I

remembered I AM THAT, the book by Nisargadatta. Suddenly, I realized

that if I was the only one then the book was written, specifically,

for me!

 

BOOM!

 

I was instantly "transported" to a non-dual state, for every practical

purpose I ceased to be a human being, but the experience was so strong

that I was submerged in panic. I was "there" for four months, without

recovering "normal" human dualist perspective. All I wanted while

being "there" is to become a human again, all my searching has been

intellectual up to that moment and then I didnt wanted to know

anything else (of course I knew there was nothing to "know"). I was

astonished about finding just this extreme fear and not the peace that

I was expecting.

 

Any comments are welcomed.

 

Manuel Delaflor

_________

Thinking is what a great many people think they are doing

when they are simply rearranging their prejudices

 

-William James

[Guest guest]

Shree Manuel,

It is not some thing to reach but for to come back or not. It is

something to be. It is understanding of our own advaitic nature. Once

understanding dawns on you, you will not become ignorant again. That is

the nature of any knowledge, is it not?

A finite cannot become infinite, that is mathematically impossible. If

I am already that infinite Brahman and I still feel limited and unhappy,

then I donot have clear grasp of what I am. Ignorance of myself is the

root cause of my unhappyness.

It is an understnading as understanding as a fact and not as

understanding as understanding as a thought. You can call it as

realization or experience or reaching there etc- words which are

themselves limited fail to point that infiniteness.

Once that understanding comes, there is no more unhappyness left - since

all unhappyness is due to wrong identification as I am this or that.

 

What you need to do is meditate on that state that you have experienced

until you get firmly established in it - what Bhagavan Ramana says -

dRiDaiva nishhTaa - firm abidance in that knowledge.

My best wishes.

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

 

 

 

--- Manuel Delaflor <delaflor wrote:

> Greetings all.

>

> As far as I know, once the advaitin reaches the non-dual state there

> is no turning back. Its a permanent state.

[Guest guest]

> On 7/19/05, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote:

> Shree Manuel,

> It is not some thing to reach but for to come back or not. It is

> something to be. It is understanding of our own advaitic nature. Once

> understanding dawns on you, you will not become ignorant again. That is

> the nature of any knowledge, is it not?

 

Thanks for answering. Then I have it, no, I cant become "ignorant" in

that sense anymore. But still, there is a level of understanding in

which, even when no more reasoing is needed, you are not "THAT". And

yes, Im aware of the impossibility of words to even mention "THAT"

correctly.

> A finite cannot become infinite, that is mathematically impossible. If

> I am already that infinite Brahman and I still feel limited and unhappy,

> then I donot have clear grasp of what I am. Ignorance of myself is the

> root cause of my unhappyness.

 

But here is the thing. While being in that non-dual state I had no

doubts left. At all. I had not a single question nor doubts regarding

anything. I knew. Still, according to a Zen master (that I asked the

same question Im asking all you here) the last resort of my ego was to

hold to that fear in oder for it to not cease to exists.

 

It was strange, because I had no personal sensation of this ego at

all. The ego banished with the world. Yet, fear was all that was left.

Not fear felt by "someone" but fear itself in not being human anymore.

> It is an understnading as understanding as a fact and not as

> understanding as understanding as a thought. You can call it as

> realization or experience or reaching there etc- words which are

> themselves limited fail to point that infiniteness.

> Once that understanding comes, there is no more unhappyness left - since

> all unhappyness is due to wrong identification as I am this or that.

 

There were no more questions, nor doubts, but Im happier now. Is that

strange? feeling happy knowing that Im (apparently) a "simple" human

being??

 

> What you need to do is meditate on that state that you have experienced

> until you get firmly established in it - what Bhagavan Ramana says -

> dRiDaiva nishhTaa - firm abidance in that knowledge.

> My best wishes.

 

Thanks. I have done that, but not on a regular basis. Sometimes at

night, right when the ego is about to sleep, I enter that non-dual

state again. There is no fear, but also, no desire to going "there".

As I said, Im happier as a "simple" human being for now. I feel I dont

need to surrender myself in to "THAT" as it is me anyway.

 

Manuel Delaflor

 

_________

Thinking is what a great many people think they are doing

when they are simply rearranging their prejudices

 

-William James

[Guest guest]

Resp. Manuel,

 

Sir, one composition of Saint Tukaram, a great saint from Maharashtra, tells

just about this situation.

 

kanyA sAsUryasi jAye

mAge paratUni pAhe

 

Meaning: When a girl goes to her in-law's house on the wedding day, she keeps on

looking backwards.

 

I don't know how much the anology will make sense to you as it is all based on

indian tradition. But I'll still try:

 

So far the girl was anxious to find a good husband, a good home. She has even

done many vratas and poojas in order to get a good husband. Today she is married

to her dream man and she is about to set out to her wonderful voyage. A HOME

that's going to be truly hers! A man, whom she dreamt so far is hers now and is

WITH her now. But still...

 

She is crying! Why? She has spent her life so far - HERE - with her parents. She

has so many memories associate with THIS house, with all THESE people. She has

to leave all THESE behind and enter into a new world.

 

THAT house, THOSE people even her own husband is all unkown to her. THAT man is

known to her only for sometime. But she does not REALLY know him.

 

Everything THERE is unknown, blur while everything HERE is known, clear to her.

This UNKNOWN factor creates the fear in her mind.

 

Similarly when a Jiva starts on the path of spirituality, it starts IN THIS

WORLD. It reads books, it collects knowledge (not the REAL knowledge though), it

does Karma, it has a guru, it spends efforts in sadhana. All of these happen in

these world. Even the Brahmn, it tries to understand through its WORDLY

instruments, which is BMI.

 

Jiva becomes uncomfortable when it has to give up all the things that it is used

to. And the new experience, which is not known to it, can create a fear of

unknown.

 

Regards

 

Madhav

 

Manuel Delaflor <delaflor wrote:

Greetings all.

 

As far as I know, once the advaitin reaches the non-dual state there

is no turning back. Its a permanent state. Still, I have to ask if

this is true in the experience of the members of this forum or their

teachers.

 

Also, I would like to know if it is possible for one to reach that

state but find no peace nor transcend all human feelings.

 

Why do I ask?

 

Someday, more than ten years ago, I was driving my car home when I

remembered I AM THAT, the book by Nisargadatta. Suddenly, I realized

that if I was the only one then the book was written, specifically,

for me!

 

BOOM!

 

I was instantly "transported" to a non-dual state, for every practical

purpose I ceased to be a human being, but the experience was so strong

that I was submerged in panic. I was "there" for four months, without

recovering "normal" human dualist perspective. All I wanted while

being "there" is to become a human again, all my searching has been

intellectual up to that moment and then I didnt wanted to know

anything else (of course I knew there was nothing to "know"). I was

astonished about finding just this extreme fear and not the peace that

I was expecting.

 

Any comments are welcomed.

 

Manuel Delaflor

_________

Thinking is what a great many people think they are doing

when they are simply rearranging their prejudices

 

-William James

 

 

 

 

Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Manuel,

 

i believe that one who got the right (spiritual) food....and all the

clearness going with it....don't really want to change this

inner "attitude" again.....

maybe depending on the quantity of food one got in a certain

moment......it take more or less time to digest it.....

 

....maybe it need some time to get used to the new "attitude"....

 

thank you for sharing your new "attitude"....

(nice restaurent in here...

 

thank you all for the sharing of new "attitude"

 

Regards and Peace

 

Marc

[Guest guest]

> On 7/20/05, Madhav Mundlye <madhavm_99 wrote:

> Everything THERE is unknown, blur while everything HERE is known, clear to

> her. This UNKNOWN factor creates the fear in her mind.

 

Yes! Yes! Thank you very much for this story, you bring peace to my

mind. Its the first time, in 11 years, that someone explain it to me

in such a way.

 

(I thank I found the Advaita mailing list)

> Similarly when a Jiva starts on the path of spirituality, it starts IN THIS

> WORLD. It reads books, it collects knowledge (not the REAL knowledge

> though), it does Karma, it has a guru, it spends efforts in sadhana. All of

> these happen in these world. Even the Brahmn, it tries to understand through

> its WORDLY instruments, which is BMI.

 

Exactly, is not REAL knowledge at all! In fact, it as NOTHING to do

with real knowledge, but we are trained to look for the answers in

form of external knowledge and reasoning. I accumulated "knowledge"

since I was a little child, always looking for the nature of the so

called reality. I practiced Zen and Vipassana, I was looking for the

answer on a daily basis, working at the university studing the brain.

 

Until "THAT" reached me, and took me by surprise.

> Jiva becomes uncomfortable when it has to give up all the things that it is

> used to. And the new experience, which is not known to it, can create a fear

> of unknown.

 

Yes! Thank you again.

 

I have to ask, what is next? Im confortable now living as a "normal"

human being, I know (real knowledge) what is like to be in a non-dual

state, yet, I have no rush (like in the years before) to reach that

state again. Im a happy human being, I do not need something

"spiritual" nor "transendent" nor "supernatural" in any way.

 

Sometimes, at night or in meditation (I rarely sit now) I can reach,

for instants, that non-dual state, but my question now is... what

happens if one, the Jiva, decides to "live" in that non-dual state? I

assume that fear is transcended to, but, I have to tell you, it was so

intense (I had never felt a more intense emotion in my life, the

closest think is a dead of a relative) that I really dont want to go

that far, at least for now.

 

 

Manuel Delaflor

________

Thinking is what a great many people think they are doing

when they are simply rearranging their prejudices

 

-William James

[Guest guest]

> On 7/20/05, dennis_travis33 <dennis_travis33 wrote:

> i believe that one who got the right (spiritual) food....and all the

> clearness going with it....don't really want to change this

> inner "attitude" again.....

> maybe depending on the quantity of food one got in a certain

> moment......it take more or less time to digest it.....

>

> ...maybe it need some time to get used to the new "attitude"....

 

I couldnt, I spent 4 months submerged in "THAT", I couldnt diggest it

at all. It was to strong, to unexpected, to radical, to different to

what I was imagining I would find...

> thank you all for the sharing of new "attitude"

 

Thank you for your comments. As I said before, this list is a blessing

for me, after 11 years of touching ADVAITA (from the inside, so to

speak) and without having, at all, any teachers or people who can

understand around, being here, in touch with people who understand,

brings warm feelings to my heart.

 

 

Manuel Delaflor

_________

Thinking is what a great many people think they are doing

when they are simply rearranging their prejudices

 

-William James

[Guest guest]

Manuel Delaflor <delaflor wrote:

I have to ask, what is next?

 

Sir,

 

I am not the right person to answer this question. It is SELF realization. You

will get answers from within yourself.

 

Dhyaan, Dhaaranaa and Samaadhi are the steps mentioned by Patanjali. These

steps, in increasing order, concentrates on that non-dual state. Samaadhi is the

state where the Jiva gains the TRUE knowledge and attains the Non-dual state for

ever.

 

You don't have to rush yourself into anything. Why to rush when TIME itself is

related to Jiva? Time will cease to exist once you have real knowledge. Where to

rush when YOU ARE IT? There is no-one, no-place other than you.

 

So just calm down and keep on concentrating on that Non-dual state at a

comfortable pace. I would also like to mention one thing: as you go heigher and

heigher you MAY get some superpowers or you may feel superior to others. But

those are not the REAL things, so don't get trapped.

 

Regards

 

Madhav

 

 

 

 

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FREE with Photos.

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[Guest guest]

> On 7/21/05, Madhav Mundlye <madhavm_99 wrote:

>

> Sir,

>

> I am not the right person to answer this question. It is SELF realization.

> You will get answers from within yourself.

 

You are right. Still, I have learned that there is a form of

communication between individuals who has seen the non-dual reality,

that can be very helpfull when one is inquiring. Is like an "external"

way to tell "the internal". Nisargadatta has done an incredible work

regarding this. I consider him my only teacher. External, yet,

internal.

> Dhyaan, Dhaaranaa and Samaadhi are the steps mentioned by Patanjali. These

> steps, in increasing order, concentrates on that non-dual state. Samaadhi is

> the state where the Jiva gains the TRUE knowledge and attains the Non-dual

> state for ever.

 

Can you tell me more about those steps? Or maybe, point me to a good

reading about them on the Internet?

> You don't have to rush yourself into anything. Why to rush when TIME itself

> is related to Jiva? Time will cease to exist once you have real knowledge.

> Where to rush when YOU ARE IT? There is no-one, no-place other than you.

 

:-) Thanks.

> So just calm down and keep on concentrating on that Non-dual state at a

> comfortable pace. I would also like to mention one thing: as you go heigher

> and heigher you MAY get some superpowers or you may feel superior to others.

> But those are not the REAL things, so don't get trapped.

 

The feeling of "superiority" has long past, with all my pretended

intellectual "knowledge". At least that is gone. And Thanks, I will

continue with my practice as it is now, being happily human, and check

now and then the non-dual all encompasing nature.

 

Manuel Delaflor

_________

Thinking is what a great many people think they are doing

when they are simply rearranging their prejudices

 

-William James