Bliss and the Absolute

[Guest guest]

Greetings Advaitins,

 

Thank you to the members that provided the excellent explanations

relating to bliss and the non-dual state. One member brought up that

bliss is the last impediment, so I think that he is refering to the

bliss sheath. Perhaps this is where my confusion lies. Is there bliss

that is specific to the bliss sheath and bliss that is specific to the

non-dual state? Does the 'bliss' in existence-consciousness-bliss have

anything to do with the bliss sheath, or is it entirely separate?

Perhaps the bliss relating to the bliss sheath we are more likely to

understand, while when the word 'bliss' is mentioned in reference to

the Absolute, it is used only because it is the word that closest

applies, and that we might most understand, even though it's inadequate

to describe the Reality.

 

-Nathan

[Guest guest]

so I think that he is refering to the

bliss sheath. Perhaps this is where my confusion lies. Is there bliss

that is specific to the bliss sheath and bliss that is specific to the

non-dual state?

 

praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

Kindly refer Sri bhagavadpUjyapAda's commentary on taitirIya shruti.

Shankara clearly cassifies the Anandamaya kOsha (bliss sheath) from our

true svarUpa *Ananda* (bliss).

>From the commentary you can find out shankara's clear distinction between

AnandamayamAtma & Ananda svarUpa of ours & we can say these kOSa-s are in

avidyA kShEtra & mere superimposition on brahma tattva. Out of five

kOSa-s, three kOSa-s

(manOmaya, vijnAnamaya & Anandamaya)made up of antahkaraNa & vijnAnamaya &

Anandamaya Atman-s are nothing but kartrutva & bhOktrutva of ahaM pratyaya

& our true svarUpa which is Ananda itself is sAkshi to even aham pratyaya.

After all, shankara clarifies that these are all from adhyArOpita drushti

adopted by shruti to teach us the ultimate reality of ours i.e. Ananda &

not Anandamaya kOsha.

 

Further, Sri surEshwarAchArya in his taitirIya vArtika says

that apart from brahman there is no separate existence to these five koSa-s

(paNcha kOsha-s) like in the analogy of rope & snakar, serpent does not

have individual existence apart from rope ( na hi kOshAtmanA satyaM R^tE

brahma samaSnute! kutaH sarpAtmanA satyaM R^tE rajjum sadAtmikAM!!)

Further he goes on to say that these koSa-s are mere avidyA kalpita & we

have to get rid of our identification with these kOSA-s

& tobe established ourselves in anAdi, anata paramArtha tattva ( yasmA

devamatO hitvA! kOSAn ajnAna kalipitAn nirvikAraM anAdim, anantaM!

paramAtmAnam ASrayEt!.)

 

Hope this would help you prabhuji.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

Nathan wrote:

>> Thank you to the members that provided the excellent explanations

relating to bliss and the non-dual state. One member brought up that

bliss is the last impediment, so I think that he is refering to the

bliss sheath. Perhaps this is where my confusion lies. Is there bliss

that is specific to the bliss sheath and bliss that is specific to the

non-dual state? <<

 

---------------------

 

Dear Nathan,

 

Since the learned member you mentioned referred to Ramana Maharshi in relation

to the above, it may be worth pointing out that Sri Ramana distinguished

between:

 

a) transient experiences of bliss associated with the Anandamaya kosa

 

and

 

b) that Bliss which is our true nature, ie the Self.

 

This is in line with the views of shankara which sri bhaskar has given in his

recent post.

 

Some passages from Ramana Maharshi are given below.

 

Regards,

 

Peter

>From "Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi."

 

[REFERENCES TO THE SELF IS BLISS]:

 

"The inherent nature of the Self is Bliss." ( Talk 204 )

 

"The Self is bliss, pure and simple. You are the Self. So you cannot but be

bliss.." (Talk 618)

 

" What is Bliss but your own being? You are not apart from Being which is the

same as Bliss. You are now thinking that you are the mind or the body which are

both changing and transient. But you are unchanging and eternal. That is what

you should know." (Talk 653)

 

"If one knows that Bliss is none other than the Self the mind becomes inward

turned. If the Self is gained all the desires are fulfilled. That is the apta

kamah atma kamah akamascha (fulfilment of desire) of the Brihadaranyaka

Upanishad. That is moksha."

(Talk 502)

 

[REFERENCES TO TRANSITORY BLISS and SUPREME BLISS]:

 

" Visva, Taijasa and Prajna are the denominations of the experiencer in the

waking, dream and deep sleep states respectively. The same individual underlies

all of them. They do not therefore represent the True Self which is pure Sat,

Chit, Ananda. The experience in deep sleep was said to be the bliss of Brahman.

It is only the negative aspect of such bliss, as it is the result of the absence

of thoughts. Moreover it is transitory. Such a bliss is only the abhasa, the

counterfeit of Supreme Bliss. It is not different from the blissful feeling of

sensual pleasures. In deep sleep the Prajna is said to be united with the Self.

So the individuality is potential in sleep."

(Talk 617)

 

" The primal bliss is obscured by the non-self which is synonymous with

non-bliss or misery. Duhkha nasam = sukha prapti. (Loss of unhappiness amounts

to gain of happiness.) Happiness mixed with misery is only misery. When misery

is eliminated then the ever-present bliss is said to be gained. Pleasure which

ends in pain is misery. Man wants to eschew such pleasure. Pleasures are priya,

moda and pra-moda. When a desired object is near at hand there arises priya:

when it is taken possession of moda arises; when it is being enjoyed pra-moda

prevails. The reason for the pleasureableness of these states is that one

thought excludes all others, and then this single thought also merges into the

Self. These states are enjoyed in the Anandamaya kosa only. As a rule

Vijnanamaya kosa prevails on waking. In deep sleep all thoughts disappear and

the state of obscuration is one of bliss; there the prevailing body is the

Anandamaya. These are sheaths and not the core, which is interior to all these.

It lies beyond waking, dream and deep sleep. That is the Reality and consists of

true bliss (nijananda).

(Talk 619)

 

" The common man is aware of himself only when modifications arise in the

intellect (vijnanamaya kosa); these modifications are transient; they arise and

set. Hence the vijnanamaya (intellect) is called a kosa or sheath. When pure

awareness is left over it is itself the Chit (Self) or the Supreme. To be in

one’s natural state on the subsidence of thoughts is bliss; if that bliss be

transient - arising and setting - then it is only the sheath of bliss

(Anandamaya kosa), not the pure Self. What is needed is to fix the \ttention on

the pure ‘I’ after the subsidence of all thoughts and not to lose hold of

it. This has to be described as an extremely subtle thought; else it cannot be

spoken of at all, since it is no other than the Real Self."

(Talk 624)