RE: It is what it is

[Guest guest]

Humble praNAm-s,

 

Jason-ji wrote:

Page 448-449 "Sri Ramakrishna and His Divine Play" By Swami Saradananda

"The Master used to say: 'One who is a true nondualist becomes silent... "

 

praveen:

In your own words, "If you (realized) cannot identify with the ignorant

person, you are of little help." Isn't that befitting here too? The fact

still remains that words are, though limited, tools to describe the

indescribable Brahman. Of course, there have been silent communications

between guru-shishya, but not for the masses!

 

 

Jason-ji wrote:

"... As soon as a person tries to talk about it or explain it, the knowledge

of duality creeps in. When there is thought or imagination, there is

duality within the mind, and one has not yet attained nondual knowledge."

 

praveen:

IMHO, there's a deeper meaning to this than it seems. I'm sure that the

paramhamsa didn't mean to say that just because he's talking means that he

"has not yet attained nondual knowldege". Else, do you think there's any

meaning to anyone's words, including the description anyone may have given

about non-dualism or having said that non-dualism is indescribable? Its a

catch-22 then or an oxymoron!

 

jai bajrangabali,

--praveen

[Guest guest]

advaitin, praveen.r.bhat@e... wrote:

> IMHO, there's a deeper meaning to this than it seems. I'm sure that

the paramhamsa didn't mean to say that just because he's talking means

that he "has not yet attained nondual knowldege". Else, do you think

there's any meaning to anyone's words, including the description anyone

may have given about non-dualism or having said that non-dualism is

indescribable? Its a catch-22 then or an oxymoron!

>

> jai bajrangabali,

> --praveen

 

Hello,

 

Thank you for the response. I think it means exactly what he said.

That as the experience transends the mind, unsing the mind to describe

the experience is degrading. Knowledge is of the mind, non-duality or

nirvikalpa samdhi transends the mind, hence...

 

Nirvikalpa or the non-dual, is neither knowledge or ignorance, being or

non-being, experience or non-experience, etc.

 

So to say that no one has attained non-dual knowledge is absolutly

true. Ramakrishna tried many times to explain it, tried to talk when

his awarness was located in the upper chakras, but could not. It

transends the mind.

 

It is like trying to describe sugar to someone who has never tasted

anything sweet.

 

I think the proper understanding of this comes from the proper

understanding of savikalpa and nirvikalpa samadhi.

Savikalpa is dual, it is pure awareness OF ego.

Nirvikalpa is non-dual, it IS NOT pure awareness of ego. It transcend

awarness, let alone the ego.

 

Namaste

Om Namah Shivaya

Jason James Morgan

[Guest guest]

Humble praNAm-s,

 

Jason-ji wrote:

Ramakrishna tried many times to explain it, tried to talk when his awarness

was located in the upper chakras, but could not. It transends the mind.

 

praveen:

Sorry, there may've been some misunderstanding here. If you meant to say

that non-dual state is beyond description since its beyond the mind,

undoubtedly I agree. I read it as if you meant that whoever is not silent

has not experienced the non-dual state *at all*, hence the earlier response

of not taking the meaning literally. You may have seen M specifically hints

at what Ramakrishna may've meant at many a places!

 

shivam shaantam advaitam,

--praveen

(PS: May I ask if you're associated with Sivananda ashram/Divine Life

Society, Jason-ji? Thanks much.)

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

Undoubtedly M's book is a masterpiece. I have read it many times. M

was a housholder, and as you may know he taught his 16 direct

disciples in private. Hence the book that was released a few years

ago by Swami Saradananda, is a much more indepth book. It only came

out in 2003 in its present form. It is awsome, and contains

teachings of Sri Ramakrishna you will not find the "gospel". Both

books are must read, however if you want the real non-dual teachings

of the master, you have to go the later book. As the Master was very

discrimating in his talks.

 

I am not affiliated with the DLS. I do however use their email

services. I like their online library, and share many concepts with

the DLS.

 

Here is a quote of the master Ramakrishna, about the chakras and

kundulini. In relation to non-dual realization. He was in

bhavamukha.

 

Page 423-424 "Sri Ramakrishna and His Divine Play" By Swami

Saradananda

 

"Ah, how simple the language that the Master would use to explain the

intricate subject of joga? He said: 'Look, something moves upward

from the feet to the head, creeping along with a tingling sensation.

As long as it does not reach the brain, I remain conscious; but the

moment it does, I completely forget myself. Even the eyes and the

ears cease to function, and speech is out of the question. Who can

speak? The very distinction of 'I' and 'you' vanashes. Sometimes I

think I shall tell you everything about what I see and feel when that

mysterious power rises up through the spinal comlumn. When it comes

up to this, or even this(pointing to the heart, then the throat), it

is possible to speak, which I do. But the moment it has gone above

this (pointing to the throat), it is as if someone were pressing my

mouth closed, and I lose all external awareness. I don't have

control. I make up my mind to relate to you what I feel when

kundulini goes beyond the throat, but as I consider this, the mind

leaps upward and speaking then becomes impossible.'"

 

 

advaitin, praveen.r.bhat@e... wrote:

> Humble praNAm-s,

>

> Jason-ji wrote:

> Ramakrishna tried many times to explain it, tried to talk when his

awarness