Infinite Awakening

[Guest guest]

A fair question, that has no possible answer. Let me try to explain why.

 

When you focus on the "real" you have the opposite to contrast it, in

this case, something is real because there is something unreal. So,

being aware of something as unreal implies this dichotomy.

 

But "in there" there are no more dichotomies. Its simply something

that does not exist. You can just open, what you would call "mouth"

from here, and be like "wow".

 

 

Manuel Delaflor

_________

Thinking is what a great many people think they are doing

when they are simply rearranging their prejudices

 

-William James

[Guest guest]

But I share your feeling in the sense of if there are more "steps" to

go. And in this respect Im sure some of the other members could tell

us more. I recall reading in the Enclopaedia Brittanica something

about the Buddha going to several "deeper" states after the

enlightment. Surely on Advaita tradition there is something like that.

 

 

Manuel Delaflor

_________

Thinking is what a great many people think they are doing

when they are simply rearranging their prejudices

 

-William James

[Guest guest]

My question and the topic I'm proposing for discussion is this: How

can we ever know if we have really reaching the Ultimate and final

state?

 

praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

Simply put, in that 'state' the very questioner cease to exist as he does

not see anything otherthan himself to question!! the jnAtru, jnEya & jnAna

triputi exists only in vyavahAra where avidya holds sway...the ultimate

knowledge sublates this very notion of pramAtru...Hence, no questions & no

answers since it is a secondless state...If we think we are realized but

still getting questions like this that means still it is not the 'real'

enlightened state as explained in shruti.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

Sirs,

Becasue there are answers the questions sprout. No body can ever think of a new

question which has not been answered. Everything is there in the universal mind,

in words and without words as Mahapraana. Every question need not be answered as

the answers are in perceptions and feelings.The entire Vedanta can be condensed

into: Aham Pada PrTyaya Saakshi Gocharaha- The feeling of the meaning of the

word "I am". Therefore if progress is to be felt, feel the universality. It is

real. There is no mincing of words or legerdemain. One can the pain of others,

the fear of others. Affection is to get affected. Therefore the progress is

getting connected to Universal Mind. The mind enclosed in the skull, as memory,

knowledge, intellect and ego is the individual mind. Loose the individuality

individual becomes the indivisible , Whole and One. Loose the personality, the

person becomes impersonal. This is possible only with a Satwic Mind, and deep

meditation endlessely till the meditator dissolves.

Saadhana is of consequence. The very questioning is the begining ofSaadhana.

Keep it up. teachings assume importance only when there are relevant and

suitable questions.

Pranams to One and All.

JS

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

NAMASTE.

 

FIRST OF ALL, IT IS A BIG MISTAKE TO CALL SELF-REALIZATION A 'STATE'

 

A STATE HAS VALIDITY ONLY IN RELATION TO ANOTHER STATE. THIS

APPLIES TO LEVELS TOO.

 

IN THE RECOGNITION OR REALIZATION THAT I EXIST AS A WHOLE BEREFT OF

DIVISIONS, INSIDE OR BEYOND, WHERE IS THE NEED FOR STATES OR

LEVELS? IN THAT 'I', ALL LEVELS AND STATES ARE TOTALLY SUBLATED OR

CONSUMED.

 

THE TRUTH HAS BEEN WELL BROUGHT OUT IN MANDUKYA THROUGH A

CONSIDERATION OF THE THREE STATES OF WAKING, DREAMING AND DREAMLESS

SLEEP. THE THREE HAVE NO VALIDITY WITHOUT THE SUBSTRATUM OF TRUTH.

IN OTHER WORDS, 'TRUTH IS, THE STATES ARE', LIKE 'GOLD IS, ORNAMENTS

ARE'. NOT 'STATES ARE, TRUTH IS'. STATES OR LEVELS HAVE NO

VALIDITY INDEPENDENT OF TRUTH. THEREFORE, ALL THE TIME TRUTH IS,

LIKE GOLD ALWAYS IS IRRESPECTIVE OF THE MULTITUDE OF DIFFERENT

ORNAMENTS.

 

IN CONCLUSION, SELF-REALIZATION IS NOT A WAKING FROM ONE STATE TO

ANOTHER OR RISING FROM ONE LEVEL TO ANOTHER. IT IS THE ASSERTION OF

STATELESSNESS OR LEVELESSNESS WHICH I AM ALWAYS WHETHER I AM AWAKE,

DREAMING, TOTALLY PISSED OUT, ALIVE OR DEAD. IT IS NOT GOING

LABORIOUSLY UP ALONG THE RUNGS OF AN ENDLESS LADDER. IT IS AN

INFALLIBLE RECOGNITION OF WHAT I REALLY AM DESPITE APPARENT STATES

AND LEVELS, WHERE THERE IS NO GOING, COMING, WAKING, DREAMING, OR

SLEEPING. IF THIS TRUTH IS RECOGNIZED WITHOUT AN IOTA OF DOUBT,

AFFIRM IT CONSTANTLY BY LIVING IT. THAT IS ADVAITIC SPONTANEITY. YOU

ARE THEN SELF-REALIZED. YOU ARE THEN AWAKE - NOT THE ORDINARY STATE

OF WAKEFULNESS - YOU ARE ALWAYS AWAKE TO YOURSELF AS WHOLENESS.

EVEN THAT TEMPORAL WORD 'ALWAYS' HAS NO MEANING IN THAT ALL-

CONSUMING WHOLENESS WHERE TIME AND SPACE SHUDDER TO TREAD.

 

TO SUMMARISE, ADVAITA AS A QUEST FOR THE ABSOLUTE IS A LOUD

PROCLAMATION OF MY STATELESSNESS OR LEVELLESSNESS. IT DOESN'T

PROMISE A ROLLER-COASTER RIDE THROUGH UPS, DOWNS AND STATES OF

EXHILARATION. WHO, OTHER THAN IGNORANT CHILDREN, WOULD WANT SUCH A

RIDE?

 

THERE IS NO 'INFINITE AWAKENING'. THAT CAPTION IS SUGGESTIVE OF AN

UNFORTUNATE MATHEMATICAL PROGRESSION TENDING TOWARDS INFINITY.

ADJECTIVES ARE ATTRIBUTIVE. NOUNS SERVE BETTER IN ADVAITA. BETTER

THEREFORE TO REWORD IT 'AWAKENING - THE INFINITE'. BOTH ARE

SYNONYMS FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF ADVAITA.

 

HOPE THIS HELPS AND TAKES US BACK TO ADVAITA FROM WHICH WE HAVE

STRAYED FARTHER AND FARTHER THESE DAYS LURED BY THE INTELLIGENT

PONDERINGS OF SELF-PROCLAIMED BHIKKUS.

 

PRANAMS TO ALL.

 

MADATHIL NAIR

___________________

[Guest guest]

>

> "............My question and the topic I'm proposing for discussion

is this: How

> can we ever know if we have really reaching the Ultimate and final

> state? If most of us think that the waking state of consciousness

is

> real, but is not, couldn't the same be true for the state called

Self-

> Realization or enlightenment? Couldn't this state, currently

> called `Ultimate,' like dreaming and the waking states, be itself

> just another step, but not necessarily the final one? Is there a

> final and Ultimate state, or is there an eternal upward progression

> of awakenings that lead to greater heights of love, bliss, and

> Reality?

>

> -Nathan

 

Namaste Nathan,

 

interesting question in your message....

 

maybe this "final" state appear when one loose the wrong

identification.....

 

i wrote recently in a message:

 

-everything is already since infinite times realized....

the tree....the mountain.....the sky.....the cat.....the steps to the

temple....the path....the consistence of bodies......

 

....on every step one can do.....it's possible to "see" the realization

of everything....in everything....and everyone

 

how possible that the mind don't "see" this....?

 

it has to wake up.....

 

endless rituals to wake up the mind.......

means, the moment one loose the illusion of being the limited body-

mind-

intellect.......there is peace and happiness of real being

 

....this peace and happiness is even not of "our own"......it belong to

everything.....in everyone

 

few words

i'm open minded for discussions...

 

Regards

 

love and peace

 

Marc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS: the one who declare that he/she got "Enlightenment" is like

saying:

"i made the experience of becoming wet in jumping into the swimming

pool"....kind of

 

there is light wherever is a pure mind and heart...

[Guest guest]

Dear Advaitins,

 

Thank you for the replies on my question about awakening. One book

that made me think of this question is "Open Secret" by Wei Wu Wei (a

disciple of Ramana Maharshi). Wei Wu Wei means `action through

inaction' or `action without action' and refers to the concept of non-

doership taught in Advaita philosophy.

 

There is a section in this book that attempts to explain awakening in

geometric terms. The author explains that "from each further

dimension, all previous dimensions can be perceived as a whole…" So

to be aware of our three dimensional universe, we must be observing

from a fourth dimension. And to be aware of this fourth dimension, we

would need to observe from a fifth, etc.

 

He goes on to explain that noumenality is perception from a further

dimension. To quote the author again:

 

"Should that be so, then-geometrically regarded-what we

term `Awakening' is waking up to a further field of vision, that what

we term `Liberation is freedom from the limitation of the cubic

vision within which we have been confined, and `Enlightenment' is the

sudden brightness of a further `universe' encompassing the three in

the limited darkness of which we have been groping."

 

He concludes with the following:

 

"Assuming that this is the ultimate perspective, or even if it is

not, even if there be perspectives ad infinitum, is this not

precisely a description of the mechanism of what the term `Awakening'

connotes?"

 

I agree that why Turiya is the Ultimate can't be answered in words,

it has to be experienced, then one knows for certain. More good

points by the members are: that when enlightened, there is no one

left to question; all questions can be answered by the Universal

Mind; and the more appropriate title would be `awakening-the

infinite.' I am certainly one who doesn't want to go through endless

awakenings; thank you all.

 

-Nathan

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Nathan Port" <eport924> wrote:

> [...]

> My question and the topic I'm proposing for discussion is this: How

> can we ever know if we have really reaching the Ultimate and final

> state?

> [...]

>

> -Nathan

 

namaste. shri shankara says in VivekacUDAmaNi "... ahambhAvodayA

-bhAvo bodhasya paramAvadhiH"

 

The culmination of knowledge is when the sense of I of the ego

does not raise anymore.

 

So, one can make a self-test: "Is the ego still raising its

ugly head?"

 

Yes -> the knowledge is not attained

No -> it is the culmination of knowledge.

 

 

regards

gummuluru murthy

--

[Guest guest]

Namaste, Sri Nairji, and others,

 

You said it!

 

<<<<<INFALLIBLE RECOGNITION OF WHAT I REALLY AM DESPITE APPARENT STATES AND

LEVELS, WHERE THERE I. . . . . >>>>>>

 

“Chathurtham iti” appearing in Mandukya confuses one waiting for a fourth state.

 

This recognition itself is an “anubhava” as “pratibodha viditham” i.e. in every

piece of awareness i.e. knowledge, what shines is THAT ALONE and THAT THAT IS

‘I’.

 

I quote from an article by Paramahamsa Nithyananda, which appeared in the Times

of India, under The Speaking Tree, of August 13.

 

“There are no controversies or contradictions in existence. But human beings are

always in conflict. We live in a dilemma.

 

“In Science, before the concept of quantum was accepted, there was conflict

between matter and energy. Post-quantum this conflict disappeared. Material and

energy exist together. There is now a concept of singularity. Once you reach the

spiritual zone, controversies disappear. Only when you play with words

intellectually you create conflict and enter into a danger zone.

 

“As long as you feel you are living two different lives, you are only playing

with words. Think of normal material life as horizontal line, think of spiritual

life as a vertical line. When you try choosing between a material life and

spiritual life, you are choosing between the horizontal and vertical.

 

“Only when you understand that you can travel both horizontally and vertically,

and even explode in all directions, do you understand that there are no

contradictions. Till then you will be in conflict.

 

“The mind enslaves you, making you believe that you can only travel one way,

horizontally or vertically. That is why you do not grow in spiritual sadhanas

which force you to choose between the material and spiritual. We only wish to

try to transform; we really do not wish to transform; yet we like to proclaim

our wish to transform. We go to a discourse, visit a temple on a holiday, we

practice part time spirituality. This fills us with hypocrisy and guilt. Even

meditation becomes a ritual if it is restricted to one part of your life at one

time in a given space. In true spirituality, your life itself becomes

meditation. Meditation is not a quantity that is to be added to your life, it is

a quality that needs to be built into your life.

 

“Singularity is beyond matter and energy. Similarly quantum spirituality is

beyond material and spiritual lives. You need to be both in the horizontal and

vertical lines simultaneously. What I wish to give you is a technique, not an

empty idea. If you go beyond mind, you explode in all directions, vertically,

horizontally in all directions.

 

“There is no starting point to worldly life; there is no end point to spiritual

life. Enlightenment is not an end; it is a beginning. An ultimate experience is

not the last experience. You ask how can I retain the bliss of a mediation

program? The moment you wish to retain this, it escapes like water flowing in a

river stays in your open palms but escapes when you close your palms. When you

are in bliss just enjoy bliss. You can never possess nithya ananda.

 

“You ask what you have to renounce to be spiritual. I say, please do not

renounce what you have. Renounce what you do not have.

 

“Living in the present moment is the missing link that helps you to traverse the

horizontal vertical lines at the same time and space. Every moment is a

possibility that you can explode in. In quantum spirituality, there is no

attachment or detachment. Everything is divine, nothing is excluded. If you wish

to be enlightened drop the idea of enlightenment. You are then in the zone of

quantum spirituality”

 

 

 

Warm regards

 

 

 

 

 

Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair wrote: NAMASTE.

 

FIRST OF ALL, IT IS A BIG MISTAKE TO CALL SELF-REALIZATION A 'STATE'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

NAMASTE.

 

WELL, I WOULD SAY WEI WU SEI WASTED HIS TIME WITH BH. RAMANA!

 

I REMEMBER VISITING ONE OF HIS SITES A COUPLE OF YEARS BACK ON A TIP

PROVIDED BY SOME MEMBER HERE AND, AT THAT TIME, HE GAVE ME AN

ENTIRELY DIFFERENT IMPRESSION.

 

DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS AND PLANES OF REALITY ARE A FASCINATING TOPIC.

I MUST CONFESS I AM STILL LURED BY SUCH IDEAS. BUT, WHEN WE TAKE UP

VEDANTA, SUCH THRILLING FASCINATIONS MUST NECESSARILY BE SET ASIDE AT

ARM'S LENGTH, FOR WE ARE THEN ENGAGED WITH THE 'ONE' THAT SUPPORTS

AND PERVADES THE POSSIBILITY OF ALL DIMENSIONS AND REALITIES.

 

AWAKENING IN ADVAITA IS AWAKENING TO THE ONE AND ONLY TRUTH THAT IS

BEHIND PERSPECTIVES AD INFINITUM WHICH IS ME. I AM, REGRESSION OR

PERSPECTIVES AD INFINITUM IS/ARE.

 

PRANAMS.

 

MADATHIL NAIR

__________________

 

advaitin, "Nathan Port" <eport924> wrote:

... One book

> that made me think of this question is "Open Secret" by Wei Wu Wei

(a

> disciple of Ramana Maharshi). //

>

> There is a section in this book that attempts to explain awakening

in

> geometric terms. The author explains that "from each further

> dimension, all previous dimensions can be perceived as a whole…" So

> to be aware of our three dimensional universe, we must be observing

> from a fourth dimension. And to be aware of this fourth dimension,

we

> would need to observe from a fifth, etc.

>

> He goes on to explain that noumenality is perception from a further

> dimension. To quote the author again:

>

> "Should that be so, then-geometrically regarded-what we

> term `Awakening' is waking up to a further field of vision, that

what

> we term `Liberation is freedom from the limitation of the cubic

> vision within which we have been confined, and `Enlightenment' is

the

> sudden brightness of a further `universe' encompassing the three in

> the limited darkness of which we have been groping."

>

> He concludes with the following:

>

> "Assuming that this is the ultimate perspective, or even if it is

> not, even if there be perspectives ad infinitum, is this not

> precisely a description of the mechanism of what the term

`Awakening'

> connotes?"

[Guest guest]

Namaste Maniji.

 

Thoroughly enjoyed reading your very pertinent quote of Paramahamsa

Nityananda.

 

He placed his finger on the right spot when he said:

 

"Living in the present moment is the missing link that helps you to

traverse the horizontal vertical lines at the same time and space.

Every moment is a possibility that you can explode in."

 

The pity is that, instead of exploding into the brilliance of

Wholeness, every moment of our life is sadly an implosive convolution

into the ego and ego-erected isolation, separation, misery and

wretchedness. This happens because we don't pause to contemplate,

understand and live the understanding.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

Namaste Madathil-Ji, Mani-Ji and friends:

 

That is the fundamental reason why ganesha has always been the most

favorite divinity fro yogi's and athatvashiirSha says:

 

tva.m guNatrayaatiitaH .

tva.m avasthaatrayaatiitaH .

tva.m dehatrayaatiitaH .

tva.m kaalatrayaatiitaH .

tvaM muulaadhaarasthito.asi nityam .

tva.m shaktitrayaatmakaH .

tvaa.m yogino dhyaayanti nityam .

 

This helps the individual saadhaka to recognize the present plain and

further brings closer to the advaitic scientific query that is

closest to Science of "neti - neti", when the upaniShtakaara says -

 

tva.m dnyaanamayovidnyaanamayosi

 

Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

 

 

 

advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair"

<madathilnair> wrote:

> Namaste Maniji.

>

> Thoroughly enjoyed reading your very pertinent quote of Paramahamsa

> Nityananda.

>

> He placed his finger on the right spot when he said:

>

> "Living in the present moment is the missing link that helps you to

> traverse the horizontal vertical lines at the same time and space.

> Every moment is a possibility that you can explode in."

>

> The pity is that, instead of exploding into the brilliance of

> Wholeness, every moment of our life is sadly an implosive

convolution

> into the ego and ego-erected isolation, separation, misery and

> wretchedness. This happens because we don't pause to contemplate,

> understand and live the understanding.

>

> PraNAms.

>

> Madathil Nair