Guest guest Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Namaskar, Can anyone explain the meaning of the following lines from Ishopanishad ... Andham tamah pravishanti ye avidyaam upaasate | Tato bhooya iv te tamah ye u vidyaayaam rataah || I am not clear about the meaning of Avidya and Vidya. Avidya here does not mean "Lack of knowledge" as down the line it is said that "Using Avidya death can be prolonged". So Avidya apparently means "Vyavaharik knowledge" and Vidya means "Parmarthik knowledge" 1. If that is true then the second line interpretes as "One who applies parmarthik knowledge goes into deeper darkness". 2. Does it not give equal importance or unimportnace to Avidya as much as Vidya? Can anyone help me with this? Regards Madhav Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 advaitin, Madhav Mundlye <madhavm_99> wrote: > Namaskar, > > Can anyone explain the meaning of the following lines from Ishopanishad ... > > Andham tamah pravishanti ye avidyaam upaasate | > Tato bhooya iv te tamah ye u vidyaayaam rataah || > Namaste Madhavji You may want to see the article on Ishopanishad in Wikipedia Encycloopaedia, to which I have contributed. The following is the relevant extract for your purpose. The full article of mine can be seen in the encyclopaedia. ==Verses #s. 9, 10 and 11== After this comes two units of three verses each, in which the process of experiencing that Reality Ultimate is discussed in a complicated paradoxical language. The first unit says: "They who worship Ignorance go into a blinding darkness; they who worship Knowledge go into an even greater darkness. There are other things which have been said for Knowledge. Others say something else about Ignorance. This is how we have heard from great people (`dhiras') who have talked about these things after good counsel and enquiry. He who knows both Knowledge and Ignorance together, transcends death by Ignorance and through Knowledge gains Immortality". ===Seven interpretations, as a sample=== These three verses have been commented upon very elaborately by almost every exponent of Indian philosophy. All the interpretations depend upon what meaning one gives to the key words Vidyaa (Knowledge) and Avidyaa (Ignorance). The simple meanings do not carry us far. A scriptural text such as the Ishopanishad is amenable to different levels of handling, depending upon the evolution of the speaker, or the writer and the context to which the discussion applies. Seven interpretations of Avidyaa and Vidyaa are given below in a tabular form. These seven are only a representative sample of the different commentaries (Shankara, Aurobindo, & others) on the Upanishad. ====Avidyaa versus Vidyaa==== • 1.Sense organs of Action versus Sense organs of Perception and Cognition • 2. Knowledge of Universe through the six pramanas versus Knowledge of God through doing and experiencing • 3. Performance of Rituals versus Knowledge of Rituals • 4. Actions done specifically for results versus Worship through the knowledge about deities • 5. Action versus Meditation • 6. Spiritual efforts towards Enlightenment versus Scholarliness about Brahman • 7. Consciousness of multiplicity versus Consciousness of unity. A simplistic interpretation like #3 above says that the performance of rituals alone would not take one to salvation; it will take one only down the scale of evolution. But perhaps this is better than having only a knowledge about rituals from books and not doing any of them! Such knowledge without practice would only take one to greater darkness. This way we have to understand each of the seven interpretations above. Not all the interpretations may appeal to the same person or even to a person at all times. Thus there is no right or wrong interpretation. ==Vidyaa (Knowledge) and Avidyaa (Ignorance)== In Ignorance there is no Light. In Knowledge there is no darkness. Ignorance is represented by the organs of action; following them exclusively will make you lame. Knowledge is representged by the organs of perception; following them exclusively will make you lame. Knowledge of the universe obtained by the senses is Avidyaa. Depending upon that exclusively will only increase our desires, effort and karma and end up in attachment and hate. Knowledge of God through the organs of cognition is Vidyaa. But real Godhead is beyond these organs. Action is Ignorance; it takes you to what you don't have. Worship is Knowledge. It shows you what you already have. Seeing the universe is avidyaa; seeing the maker of the universe is vidyaa. ===Practical implications=== Anything which is not an end in itself is avidyaa. Action by itself, rituals by themselves, just a secular knowledge of the universe, the efforts towards spiritual growth, etc. are all avidyaa compared to the end towards which they are directed. But the ends themselves are not to be spoken of as great without the effort, or means, or the appearance in the phenomenal world. Thus actions done for specific results are not to be decried, because that may be the only manner in which one can be of service to the rest of mankind. Similarly scholarliness about Brahman may be good in itself but without the efforts for spirituality to be in Brahman, the knowledge is not worth it. Again, the awareness of the One Omnipresent Divinity in all existences is certainly a great objective and is truly the end of all spiritual effort. But the simultaneous consciousness of the multiplicity which stares us in the face and which forms the basis for our own existence in this world cannot be ignored. The very truth that The Impersonal Divinity itself coexists with its own Personal aspect of multiplicity through which it manifests in this world tells us that we cannot throw away the multiplicity in our daily life. To seek the One is not to deny the Many. PraNAms to all advaitins profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Prof. V.K. provided an excellent summary. Here are my 2c on the meaning of the sloka as presented. avidya - stands for pure ignorance as in deep sleep - that is when the tamas predominates. Since the mind and intellect are folded - there are no thoughts and no time either - hence the death that stands of kaala or time - is transcended during the deep sleep state - that was the state where ahalya was cursed into for transgressing the moral norms. In a way, it is blessing for her since she has no concept of time and has no second thoughts of her actions since she was trapped into the compromising situation. She was awakened to higher state by the blessing of the realized master, Rama. Vidya stands of intellectual knowledge - number of PhDs one has as Narada states that he has PhD in 64 'apara vidya’, which includes Vedas. Yet he was unhappy and miserable. Intellectual arrogance can take one to even deeper darkness. Here is a state one thinks he knows but he really does not know the truth. 'he who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool - leave him' They have sharp intellect that analyzes - seeing many in one as they dissect the system in sub and sub specializations but not subtle intellect that synthesizes -that which integrates or that makes to see one in many. Hence Upanishad student request the teacher to teach him knowing which he knows everything - He was seeking for an integrated knowledge - which Narada was also after when he approached Sanatkumaras. That is beyond both 'knowledge of' and 'ignorance of' - and is pure knowledge which cannot be definced since it is 'satyam, jnaanam and anantam'. Hari OM! Sadananda --- Madhav Mundlye <madhavm_99 wrote: > Namaskar, > > Can anyone explain the meaning of the following lines from > Ishopanishad ... > > Andham tamah pravishanti ye avidyaam upaasate | > Tato bhooya iv te tamah ye u vidyaayaam rataah || > > I am not clear about the meaning of Avidya and Vidya. Avidya here does > not mean "Lack of knowledge" as down the line it is said that "Using > Avidya death can be prolonged". So Avidya apparently means "Vyavaharik > knowledge" and Vidya means "Parmarthik knowledge" > > 1. If that is true then the second line interpretes as "One who > applies parmarthik knowledge goes into deeper darkness". > > 2. Does it not give equal importance or unimportnace to Avidya as much > as Vidya? > > > Can anyone help me with this? > > > Regards > Madhav > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://in.messenger. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Namaste. In my earlier post I wrote: > > > ==Vidyaa (Knowledge) and Avidyaa (Ignorance)== > > In Ignorance there is no Light. In Knowledge there is no darkness. > Ignorance is represented by the organs of action; following them > exclusively will make you lame.Knowledge is representged by the organs of perception; following them exclusively will make you lame ....... --------- I apologize for an error in the above lines. Please correct them as follows: In Ignorance there is no Light. In Knowledge there is no darkness. Ignorance is represented by the organs of action; following them exclusively will make you blind to the Supreme.Knowledge is represented by the organs of perception; following them exclusively will make you lame ....... PraNAms to all advaitins. profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 advaitin, Madhav Mundlye <madhavm_99> wrote: > Namaskar, > > Can anyone explain the meaning of the following lines from Ishopanishad ... > > Andham tamah pravishanti ye avidyaam upaasate | > Tato bhooya iv te tamah ye u vidyaayaam rataah || > > I am not clear about the meaning of Avidya and Vidya. Avidya here does not mean "Lack of knowledge" as down the line it is said that "Using Avidya death can be prolonged". So Avidya apparently means "Vyavaharik knowledge" and Vidya means "Parmarthik knowledge" Namaste, Avidya is to the Jiva as Maya is to the Universe. Vidya is Jnanam or knowledge of the Self, all other knowledge can only be Avidya....ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Here Vidya is to be understood as manifest, and Avidya as the unmanifest. One who does upasana, on the unmanifest goes to hell and on the manifest to a deeper hell. The meaning is that whether the reality is manifest or unmanifest, praying or worshipping leads one to Hell. The underlying Lakshyaartha is that, unmanifest or manifest, the reality is not meant to be worshipped from a distance, but the supposed reality must be realised, by having Brahma Bhavana. Pranams to one and all. JS India Matrimony: Find your partner online. Go to http://.shaadi.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Namste JS: Can you please elaborate on this. How can avidya be un-manifest? It has to be vidya that elaborated on/of that un-manifestation. Thank you, Regards, Dr. Yadu advaitin, jayantha srirama <jayanthasrirama> wrote: > > Here Vidya is to be understood as manifest, and Avidya as the unmanifest. One who does upasana, on the unmanifest goes to hell and on the manifest to a deeper hell. The meaning is that whether the reality is manifest or unmanifest, praying or worshipping leads one to Hell. The underlying Lakshyaartha is that, unmanifest or manifest, the reality is not meant to be worshipped from a distance, but the supposed reality must be realised, by having Brahma Bhavana. > > Pranams to one and all. > > JS > > > > > > > India Matrimony: Find your partner online. > Go to http://.shaadi.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Pranams Vidya is manifested knowledge and not inherent Jnana. The manifestation comes obvioulsy from unmanifest. Unmanifest does not mean void, or a nullity or nothingness. It is jumbled knowledge, which when unjumbled and cross-word is solved, then it becomes manifest knowledge. In reality it is said that Vidya is that liberates. Whom from what , that is also Vidya only. It is something like this-whitelight is made of VIBGYOR- but what is black colour? Absence of perception on the retina is black colour. This shloka is also like that. There are many paasages in Upanishads which require to be understood in a sense of apperception not in a perceivable notion. The shloka under discussion is a statement made by APAROKSHANUBHUTHI. SAMASTHAA LOKA SUKHINO BHAVANTHU. India Matrimony: Find your partner online. Go to http://.shaadi.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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