Who is The Mother-- Who is The Self

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Who is The Mother-- Who is The Self

 

hjiwnani: jai radhe bindu ji

Nisha: jai radhe bindu ji

Nisha: jai radhe haresh ji

bindu: ????

Nisha: bindu ji is entering the conference with a question?

Interesting

hjiwnani: jai radhe bindu ji

 

bindu: who is The Self?

 

amit: Hare Krishna ... friends !

Nisha: jai radhe amit guru ji

 

Nisha: The Self is The Self ji.

 

bindu: So why do we name this and that?

 

Nisha: because the as human beings we believe we are limited... as we

are identifying with the body.. therefore.. we cannot work with

something that is unlimited.. we need to label everything. It is like

the question.. did the egg come first or the chicken come first.

 

hjiwnani: interesting

 

bindu: It is the naming of things that deludes the Jiva conceptions

as to the nature of things makes us decide this is different from

that.

 

Nisha: Are we lableing because we are in delusion or because of the

labeling are we in delusion?

 

 

bindu: Things are not concepts but we conceptualize the things; we do

this because as you say, if we do not conceptualize we cannot define

ourselves in an unlimited reality.

 

bindu: Concept < --- NOUN (big C) "Concept ITSELF...." begins with

the Concept of the I-ness.

 

Nisha: What came first ji.. the concept.. or the languge or the human

beings?

 

bindu: we shall see nishu

 

Nisha: Om is the embodiment of whole creation... yet it is the sound

form.

 

bindu: Concept < --- NOUN (big C) comes spontaneously as the Bindu

Why do i say that.... see if you can tell me.

 

Nisha: Om itself seemed to be limited .. in that sense becoz we give

it a sound form.

 

bindu: No, Om comes before anyone exists it is the seed of being..

out of om (IN OM) everything comes.

 

Nisha: yes ji

 

bindu: The bindu is a sphere; it is an ORB.

 

Nisha: All i am saying is everything is infinite.. from the Om to

tree it self.. yet when we say.. OM or the treee.. we limited

according their qualities.

 

bindu: yes.. but watch now

 

bindu: Concept < --- NOUN (big C) is also an orb because with the

begining of ANY concept no matter if it is JUST CONCEPT ITSELF;

because with the begining of it, with the begining of the first

CONCEPT; there are a massive number of CONOTATIONS in the Absolute

which spread out from the non-dimensional point called the bindu (or

CONCEPT))

 

They spread in infinite directions instantaneously; both inward and

outward in a way that can only be thought of as an orb or seed or

bindu. think about that a moment.

 

It is then the birth of DIMENSION ITSELF thus the geometry of the

atom is born from the bindu. From the bindu comes the atoms begining

with the photons of light. So then all the multiplicity of shapes and

sizes and collections of atoms called things which get conceieved are

onceptualized eventually by the beings that come as a result also of

the existence of the consciousness of The Self who existed for

eternal Time previous to the coming of the bindu.

 

Now let us go back before bindu. Before concept. Before the birth of

the Universes.

 

In that place full to the brim with nothing << we cannot say it is

FULL as it has no perimeter.... but to be able to speak of IT the

word IT conceptualizes it.

 

So we will talk in a way that the mind can understand, for the

purpose of the conversation.

 

In that place (which cannot be rightly called a place) there is

massive emptiness existing between stillness and silence; this is the

OM.

 

It arises from the potency or potential inherent in infinite Being<<<

this potency exists because it HAS POTENTIAL; it is the Sakti

 

The Sakti is the same as the One who knows it .. this means the Sakti

IS SELF AWARE without CONCEPTS!

 

It is previous to the consciousNESS which is the mass of concepts and

all their countless variations.

 

The Sakti (the MOTHER) means that the mother (the Mtrka ) is the womb

of being; it is that in which all arises and also the place WITHIN

which everything comes. 1st she is Sakti then the bindu comes IN

HER......

 

There is massive emptiness existing between stillness and silence

this is the OM. Then conception occurs, and the universe appears.

 

Nisha: How can one say it is massive emtiness existing between

stillness and silence?

 

One cannot directly refer to it nishu; we are referring to it only to

speak else we will not speak; but you are not seeing that ANY

speaking IS CONCEPT... speaking is composed of concepts. so then the

CONCEPTS or CONCEPT ITSELF cause existence.

 

Nisha: But why is this knowing by massive emptiness.. which existed

between stillness and silence.. can't we say it is massive fullness..

which existed between.. noise and sound.

 

bindu: Why not? waves are sound in the troughs (soundlessness between

the waves ) there is stillness; there are no waves there. But the

concept of stillnes means nothing without wave . so it is emptiness;

but more than emptiness, because emptiness can only be known if we

compare it to fullness. so it is nothingness that is actually non-

dual reality, prior to consciousness of ANY concept.

 

 

So with CONCEPT comes consciousNESS; previously there was no

consciousNESS; there was only the Conscious Absolute ParaBrahman.

 

Nisha: It is beyond the concept of emptiness and fullness.. it is

beyond stillness and noise.. it is beyond the sound and silence.. it

is it. it cannot be defined by anything or any word that exists.. or

that will come to exist in the future.. can we say that?

 

bindu: Yes, but that is a useless way to speak, it is better to speak

as i have said.

 

In that place full to the brim with nothing << we cannot say it is

FULL as it has no perimeter....but to be able to speak of IT, the

word IT conceptualizes it

 

So we will talk in a way that the mind can understand, only for the

purpose of the conversation.

 

Go back before the thought arises that it is beyond etc... it is

comunnicable in terms of what it is NOT; it is NOT coummunicable in

terms of WHAT IT IS!

 

So like the spaces in the vibrations we conceptulize as Sound

(in the Spanda sakti) we can understand the absence of sound (we can

understand the stillness of soundlessness); then we can think of the

potential for sound like in a tight guitar string.

 

There is a tension in nothingness, that tension is the potential so

then

bindu: this is the Sakti in itself. ... and due to the nothingness

being infinite, it is infinite ichaa-Sakti.

 

It is the Sakti of the Will of Siva or God if you prefer; but

normally people think GOD acts or does things He doesn't else His

success would be dependant upon His acting.... but that is another

subject entirely.

 

We are talking of conception and bindu and i-ness today.

 

I said above: "Existence comes out of the Mother and appears IN the

we personalize the Mother and the Father; we conceptualize them so

that we can exist as what seem to be separate beings (as JEEVA). yet

imagine if the CONCEPT (Mtrka or Mother ) did not come. There could

be no personality of godhead... hence the Sakti is the Mother of God.

 

Jai Radhe Shyam!: Siva\Sakti Vishnu\Lakshmi etc..

 

So then this means the the Mother and Father conceptions are

reflections of each other ... but the Absolute Self is transcendental

because He is the one who exist as the conscious Absolute beyond all

knowing.

 

You asked above ... what came first chicken or egg.

The Self came first as the Potent One in which all exists prior to

conception. It exists without being conceptualized.

 

 

dhaniganesh: Is the CONCEPT (mtrka) the avyakta spoken of in the

upanishads?

 

bindu: oh yes dhanni also in Siva Sutra. The bindu comes out of

Him.... then from that sphere... from that 1st spiritual atom comes

the refections in His psyche which we call atoms.

 

The atoms are as i said born out of photons of light this is

scientific fact.

again refer back to the multi-dimensional nature of the conotations

of the coming of the existence of the bindu in the Absolute...

 

For example if a THING came in the ABSOLUTE; no matter how small, it

would have multidimensional connotations because dimension does not

exist in the Absolute.. It is called MOTHER because all things begin

from that due to the birth of CONOTATION ITSElF<<<< WHICH IS CONCEPT

ITSELF...... HENCE THE LITTLE MOTHER............... or Mtrka.

 

An easy way to see it is picture a ball made of cloth submerged in a

bucket of water the water surrounds it on every side, the water is

all thru the cloth and all around the ball. The wetness of the ball

is the mulit-dimensional effect of it being immersed (or coming into

the water); in the same way when a concept (or ball or sphere or

bindu) appears in the Absolute it is soaked with the Brahman, all

thru at every level of conotation.

 

This IS the consciousness which can only be known to exist by

connotation

 

dhaniganesh: Mtrka is mother, and consciousNESS is also Mother?

 

bindu: Yes. This comparison ... due to it being the consciousness

comes into being as the multiplicity of beings who are concious; but

this consciousness IN beings is limited due to CONCEPT!

 

So the Mother limits them all. Now then, let us go back a bit from

the countless beings and think about the Gods.

 

Nisha: How can we even talk about what came first and what came

last... as it is existing forever.. with no beginning and ending.

 

bindu: yes nishu, but again just for the purpose of the conversation

we use concepts.

 

bindu: Back to the gods etc... They are a few steps from the Mother

who birthed them all. How and why do they come?

 

They are a step towards the involution of the infinite into the

countless jeeva.

 

Step by step the process comes down into the diversity, such that

the process is actually GOD we call him Krishnaaa ... just so we can

refer to Him .. but we know He also is transcendental.... but even

that is a concept because in His transcenedental Self we can only

imagine how incredible He is until we become Self-Realized... but

even the Self-realized cannot say who He is because if we did it

would subordinate Him to the concept.

 

So then all the demigods are merely other jeeva who are all inhered

by The Self (by sri Krishnaaa) - all appear in the Mother and have

come out of Her. so then the meditating ones will gradually see all

the gods one by one as the Conscious ONE comes up out of the ocean of

illusion.

 

The realization of the god with form (even though it is not full

realization) indicates that The Self exists just as much as the

existence of the jiva does. Thus the jiva is the god of its own

universe but is not the final god.... The final God is the PAramAtma.

The JivaAtma is merely the god of its personal universe the ParaAtma

is the god of the Cosmos ....... <<<< The cosmos is the sum of all

the universes (the combination of them).

 

dhaniganesh: What is full realization

 

bindu: dhanni my dear son.... self realization really has no

defintion... but it is the knowledge i am describing above. Yet even

this is merely knowledge. The self-realization is the self-

recognition of The Self as the Infinite ParaBrahman. It is the

recognition that there is ONLY ONE BEING who exists in and as ALL

beings.

 

This recognition cannot be had by Jeeva because his very existence is

depending on CONCEPTION; which is separation and his personal birth

 

for example:

A jiva cannot even think He can realize the truth because his thought

of "I will realize" is a conception... hence his very thought splits

him away from The Self. Therefore he cannot realize The Self. if

there is one who thinks called "I this jiva".

 

hjiwnani: jai radhe

 

bindu: That is why it is called SELF-REALIZATION.............. THE

SELF realizes Himself in Himself as Himself. There is no other

concious ONE but THIS SELF. NONE.

 

Nisha: jai radhe; He is The Self.. She is the consciousness! He is

The Self... She is the realisation

 

bindu: nishu YES GREAT. Even the mother gets Her consciousness from

him.... but they are defining each other. Think then if they did not

define each other then you will be able to understand.

 

now then think one step back --- If She was not there He could not

be there; if He was not there She could not be there; thus they are

one Radhe Shyam, Siva Sakti. etc..

 

So then --- now last of all... this--

-->>>>

 

If we take a peice of space out of space .............. it will only

be conceptually ............. because we cannot cut

space............... thus when the object is gone, there can be no

knowable space or knowing space either.

 

In the same way when mum and dad become one they are no longer needed

to know or define each other........ this consciousness of The Self

is without limit and is transcendental Being.

 

Nisha: The whole is whole.. what has come out from the whole is also

whole.. when the whole is taken out from the whole.. The whole

remains as the The whole.

 

bindu: Sat-chit-ananada. so then i rest.

 

Nisha: He is SATCITANANDA>>> She is the embodiment of SatCitAnanda

Nisha: Thank you very much bindu ji IT is great.

 

hjiwnani: thank u bindu ji.

 

bindu: so then the god with form and the god without form are one-and

the-same God.

 

 

At all levels god is coming into the mother; she is showing him who

He is at all levels of being.

 

amit: Hare Krishna !

 

bindu: Jai Radhe Shyam! Pranams to the mighty unknowable one who is

also knowable!