Ego death and the sage

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Nathan Port" <eport924> wrote:

> Dear Bhikku Yogi,

>In Advaita as in Buddhism, enlightenment occurs

>when the death of the ego takes place. Many realized Advaitins say that

>they feel no sense of personal identity and feel no difference between

>themselves and others.

Hi Nathan:Respectfully I don't agree with you about your interpretation

of enlightment as the "death" of ego.For the sage the ego is seen

through.The assumed ego is know for what really is an expression of

totality "AS A" particular body/mind mechanism[not "THROUGH A"

particular body/MIND mechanism.The ego story is part of, let say, the

life landscape rather than a filter as it appears to be when there is

identification as the exclusive "me".The point is that the ego is only

a function and not a separate entity.The identification with the body

aspect of this function don't die in the sage,for example if you call a

sage by his name he respond back.That sense of separation is

functional.It's is functional within the play as part of the

play.Without seeming distance and separation the play wouldn't work.For

the sage Oneness is the whole thing,including the seeming separation.

Atagrasin

[Guest guest]

Atagrasin,

 

To me ego is the sense of individuality. So when I say that

enlightenment occurs when the ego dies, I mean when the sense of

individuality vanishes. Yes, as you said, a sage is still able to

know when someone is talking to the body/mind mechanism that the

Atman previously identified with, but doesn't identify with any more.

The fact that the body still lives and functions after the sense of

individuality ceases is a mystery, and beautiful. In Sri

Nisargadatta's book `I am That' there is a brief account of a man who

had lost his ego, so that when he stepped in front of a car, he

didn't know if he was the person or the car. Another person I've read

about was watching a dancer on a stage, and he thought he was the

dancer at times. Many explain the continuation of the body and mind

as the last remnants of karma running there course. So when

enlightenment occurs, the realized person discovers that there is no

other, the guru disappears, etc. The sage just happens to be acting

through the body, it certainly doesn't think that it is the body. In

this way there is no ego and still the Self functioning through a

body for a time.

 

Regards,

Nathan

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Port,

 

there is a brief account of a man who

> had lost his ego, so that when he stepped in front of a car, he

> didn't know if he was the person or the car. Another person I've

read

> about was watching a dancer on a stage, and he thought he was the

> dancer at times. Many explain the continuation of the body and mind

> as the last remnants of karma running there course. So when

> enlightenment occurs, the realized person discovers that there is no

> other, the guru disappears, etc.

 

I don't know what you really mean by 'Death of ego'. I also don't know

if such a condition as you have described above is really

enlightenment. I am not enlightened, so I cannot say. In my

understanding, the identification with (attachment for) the five

aggregates (form, feelings, perception, fermentation and

consciousness) is an error caused due to Avijja. When this attachment

is dissolved, wisdom arises.

 

I would not say 'Death of ego' because it entails annihilationism, but

I do agree with you if what you mean is that there is NO EGO after

enlightenment.

 

Yet a sage responds as if he were normal and as if he has an 'ego'.

Although I cannot say how it happens, I can only say that it would be

incorrect to think that we become deficient in something or abundant

in something else when we become enlightened. Wisdom arises as a

natural factor. It is always there and is ever-present. So

enlightenment would not be any gain or loss of anything.

 

However, still, when this attachment was there earlier and it does

exist after enlightenment, I think in a crude way we can say (as you

point out) it is the loss of something. And when wisdom arises, again

in a crude way, we may say that we gain something.

 

-Bhikku Yogi