Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Conditional, and therefore avoidable, liberation stories contain just that, conditions that have to be met, paths to be travelled, and practise that has to be completed, before liberation from lack, incompletness, and separation. Change in the ever-changing content of the appearance is required. In the unconditional, and therefore unavoidable, liberation story already nothing is lacking. All is already complete, whole, and unified. No change is required because liberation is not dependant on the content of the appearance. No change is present or required in the eternal unchanging whole. Would not such a story of unconditional inclusiveness.............LOVE.............be an unavoidable liberating relief, as nothing needs be, or can be done to achieve it, because it is not possible to become that which already is, exactly as all already is ? Absolutely nothing that may appear is excluded. The appearance of, for instance, suffering, not realizing, and seeking, would also be the eternal unchanging whole appearing as that. No-one is excluded because in this story there is no-one and nothing separate, or anything less than 100% complete, whole, and all, REGARDLESS of how 'they' may appear. Is it seen why this would need to be so for this liberation story to be unconditional and unavoidable, in order for nothing needing to change ? Unavoidable liberation and enlightenment but no-one separate being it. peace _______________ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Namaste, you talk about the appearently (two different) stories in the first story...." Change in the ever-changing content of the appearance is required..." and second story: "....Would not such a story of unconditional > inclusiveness.............LOVE.............be an unavoidable liberating > relief, as nothing needs be, or can be done to achieve it, because it is not > possible to become that which already is, exactly as all already is ?....." ....maybe this (two) attitudes are not so much different to each... -if life is percieved as an "ever-changing" content.... maybe because of an observing (own) moving and changing mind..... it's necessary to go with the "flow" of move.... what would happen if one would ignore the "wholeness" of the mind- perception....and so create a "seperation" to the "wholeness".....in trying to do "same or different" move than the appearent "others"....? in a society of a partly (extrem) individualisme....where many get food for the ego-mind at every corner.... maybe an attitude to "change" oneself....to get peace and (be) Self....is of help -if life is percieved with awareness to changless Self.... maybe it's not necessary to "change" whatever....and however...whenever... but maybe this does not mean that one should stop "moving"....or just continue to live.....with ot without "change".... depending the perception of "wholeness"...or Self...... depending on the attitude to "react" or not.... a few thoughts only... i'm open minded.... Regards and love Marc > > _______________ > Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! > http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Is it seen why there would be no choice possible in unavoidable liberation, because in such a story there is no-one and nothing separate who can do any choosing ? The appearance of choosing apparently arises but no-one separate doing it. Peace heron >"dennis_travis33" <dennis_travis33 >advaitin >advaitin > Re: The unavoidable liberation story >Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:45:22 -0000 > > > >Namaste, > >you talk about the appearently (two different) stories > >in the first story...." >Change in the ever-changing content of the appearance is required..." > >and second story: >"....Would not such a story of unconditional > > inclusiveness.............LOVE.............be an unavoidable >liberating > > relief, as nothing needs be, or can be done to achieve it, because >it is not > > possible to become that which already is, exactly as all already >is ?....." > > >...maybe this (two) attitudes are not so much different to each... > >-if life is percieved as an "ever-changing" content.... >maybe because of an observing (own) moving and changing mind..... > >it's necessary to go with the "flow" of move.... > >what would happen if one would ignore the "wholeness" of the mind- >perception....and so create a "seperation" to the "wholeness".....in >trying to do "same or different" move than the appearent "others"....? > >in a society of a partly (extrem) individualisme....where many get >food for the ego-mind at every corner.... >maybe an attitude to "change" oneself....to get peace and (be) >Self....is of help > >-if life is percieved with awareness to changless Self.... >maybe it's not necessary to "change" whatever....and >however...whenever... > >but maybe this does not mean that one should stop "moving"....or just >continue to live.....with ot without "change".... > >depending the perception of "wholeness"...or Self...... > >depending on the attitude to "react" or not.... > > >a few thoughts only... >i'm open minded.... > >Regards and love > >Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________ > > Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free >newsletters! > > http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters > > > _______________ MSN Messenger 7.5 is now out. Download it for FREE here. http://messenger.msn.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 advaitin, <heronmoon@h...> wrote: > > > Is it seen why there would be no choice possible in unavoidable liberation, > because in such a story there is no-one and nothing separate who can do any > choosing ? > > The appearance of choosing apparently arises but no-one separate doing it. > > Peace > > heron Namaste, there is only one "doer".....if, ever, one could talk about something realy "done"......except in the perception of a time and space limited mind... ......who is not the real "doer".....even if he/she think or feel to "do" something...... if so....he/she live in illusion....Maya there is an unavoidable "story" to get out of Maya......because all the sense organs and emotions and restless mind(s) and sufferings..... are constantly "in move".....in order to "digest" the Karma....or building up more Karma....and finally also destroy it there is neither "choice" nor "free will"...... it's all the formless Self.....appearing in forms....... few words...to the emptyness of being....to the formless Self..... but without Self....nothing could ever written and nothing ever could "appear".... without ocean....no waves... Regards and love Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Would not conditions apply if there is karma or living in illusion ?, making liberation very difficult, rather than effortless ? Peace heron >"dennis_travis33" <dennis_travis33 >advaitin >advaitin > Re: The unavoidable liberation story >Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:31:38 -0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 advaitin, <heronmoon@h...> wrote: > > Would not conditions apply if there is karma or living in illusion ?, making liberation very difficult, rather than effortless ? > > Peace > > heron > > > > Namaste heron, it's not about "inventing" (new) conditions or theories..... Karma is not "created" or "invented" or whatever.....it's a law that one need to "understand and experience".....in order to just live.....in peace.....and stay being the Self......like since ever....and forever....... if you believe that no effort is necessary.....please go on..... this make no difference....in Oneness of existance if you are liberated.....fine.....i hope you enjoy It... Regards and love Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 If no conditions have to be met, then no effort would be required to meet them. When no conditions apply there is already no-one separate or liberated. There is just the presence of effortless liberation but no-one being it. Nothing would be outside the eternal unchanging whole, including karma, living in illusion, or making an effort. Only in the seeing of difference would there be something outside, in this case, effortlessness. As said, it makes no difference. Enjoy the effort!!! Peace heron >"dennis_travis33" <dennis_travis33 >advaitin >advaitin > Re: The unavoidable liberation story >Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:30:19 -0000 > >advaitin, <heronmoon@h...> wrote: > > > > Would not conditions apply if there is karma or living in illusion ?, >making liberation very difficult, rather than effortless ? > > > > Peace > > > > heron > > > > > > > > Namaste heron, > >it's not about "inventing" (new) conditions or theories..... > >Karma is not "created" or "invented" or whatever.....it's a law that >one need to "understand and experience".....in order to just >live.....in peace.....and stay being the Self......like since >ever....and forever....... > >if you believe that no effort is necessary.....please go on..... > >this make no difference....in Oneness of existance > >if you are liberated.....fine.....i hope you enjoy It... > >Regards and love > >Marc > > > > > _______________ MSN Messenger 7.5 is now out. Download it for FREE here. http://messenger.msn.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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