Guest guest Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Sir you do not seem to have heard HariHara Mahadeva - Shiva means auspeciousness and vishnu means that pervades everthing. That which pervades that which is auspecious and that which is infinite is ever pure and that my friend is Brahman. I compliment the Liverpool temple people for their efforts. Hari OM! Sadananda --- veera saiva <vsaiva wrote: > > Hara Hara Maha Deva! > > The livermore temple is performing Shiva Kesava Maha > Yagnam. Here they have combined half Vishnu and Half > Shiva. Please visit website at > http://www.livermoretemple.org/ to see the distortion. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 Namste Sadannada-Ji: This reminds me of a shloka from vishNu purANa, where advaita between viShNu and shiva is expressed. harihara tvayaa tadabhayaM dattaM taddattamakhikaM mayA | matto.avibhinnamaatmaanaM draShTumarhasi sha.nkara || yo.ahaM sa tvaM jagaccedaM sadevaasuramaanuSham | avidyaamohitaatmaanaH puruShA bhinnadarshinaH || viShNu purANa 5.33.47-48 || Meaning - (Lord viShNu says to shiiva) Whatever you have promised to folks is given by me. You do not consider me as separate from you. In this world filled with deva, asura & human beings, I am there (everywhere) just like you. It is because of ignorance folks see the difference between us Saint Tukaram talks about dvita understand pertaing to this to bhaagavabhakta in general: viShNumayajaga vaiShNavaacaa dharma | bhedaabheda bhrama ama.ngaLa || aa{}ikaa jii tuhmi.n bhakta bhaagavata | karAla te.n hita satya karA || koNAhii jivAcaa na ghaDAvaa matsara | varma sarveshvara-puujanaace.n || tukAmhaNe ekaa dehAce avayava | sukha duHkha jiiva bhoga pAve || 21 || Meaning - To realize the whole universe is vShNu-ruupa is the real vShNudharma. dvaita thoughts are ama.ngaLa (dirty, not acceptable). Dear bhaagava bhakta do good whatever you can do as being the truth. tukaaraama mahaaraaja says, j~naa.nnedriya & karme.ndriya belong to same body and the information acquired through them is perceived by the soul (aatmaa) is same. hari OM! Dr. Yadu advaitin, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada> wrote: > Sir you do not seem to have heard HariHara Mahadeva - Shiva means > auspeciousness and vishnu means that pervades everthing. That which > pervades that which is auspecious and that which is infinite is ever > pure and that my friend is Brahman. > > --- veera saiva <vsaiva> wrote: > > > > > Hara Hara Maha Deva! > > > > The livermore temple is performing Shiva Kesava Maha > > Yagnam. Here they have combined half Vishnu and Half > > Shiva. Please visit website at > > http://www.livermoretemple.org/ to see the distortion. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2005 Report Share Posted October 2, 2005 advaitin, "ymoharir" <ymoharir> wrote: > Namste Sadannada-Ji: > > This reminds me of a shloka from vishNu purANa, where advaita > between viShNu and shiva is expressed. > Namaste, Yadu-ji and Sada-ji, Our friends who object to the Shiva-Keshava yajnam in the Livermore Temple should read the following declaration of Lord Vishnu Himself from Shrimad BhagavataM (IV - 7 - 50 to 54): *ahaM brahmA ca sharvashca jagataH kAraNaM paraM/ Atmeshvara upadrashhTA svayam-dRRig-avisheshhaNaH //* I, the supreme cause of the universe, its soul, its ruler, the witness of everything, the self-effulgent Being and attributeless Absolute -- in truth I am both BrahmA and Rudra. *Atma-mAyAM samAvishya so'haM guNamayIm dvija / sRRijan rakshhan haran vishvaM dadhre samjn~AM kriyocitAM //* Verily I assume different names (Brahma, Vishnu and Maheshvara) appropriate for the creation, preservation and destruction of the universe which I perform by assuming my Yoga-mAyA, which has its three constitutent GuNas (of Rajas, Sattva and Tamas). *tasmin brahmaNy-advitIye kevale paramAtmani / brahma-rudrau ca bhUtAni bhedena-ajn~o'nupashyati//* In Me, the all-comprehending and all-pervading non-dual Self, known as brahman, the ignorant man sees Brahma, Rudra and other entities as distinct entities. *yathA pumAn-na svAngeshhu shiraH pANyAdishhu kvacit / pArakya-buddhiM kurute evaM bhUteshhu matparaH //* Just as a man will not consider the parts of his body like the head and the limbs as different from himself, so does not one who has taken refuge in Me, regard living entities as distant from himself *trayANAm-eka-bhAvAnAM yo na pashyati vai bhidAM / sarva-bhUtAtmanAM brahman sa shAntim-adhigacchati //* He attains eternal peace who does not perceive any difference between the three (Brahma,, Vishnu, Maheshvara) who are identical in essence and who are the very self of all beings. PraNAms to all advaitins. profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 I have a bit of veera saiva in me. Lord shiva comes first all GODs come next. I am writing this reply as a devotee of Lord Shiva. My views do not represent in anyway the broad Advaitin views. There is a valid point here that Lord Shiva's other half is always Mother Parvati. However, we also do know from Mohini Bhasmasura story that Lord Shiva fell in love with Lord Vishnu who is disguised as Mohini (a beautiful maidan of course). But still Siva is shown in his masculine qualities and the other half as feminine. I think this matter has to be referred to the Agama -sthapati sastras. I think there is no idol/statue described in sastras which has half vishnu and half siva. In the eagerness of showing the siva-kesava / hari-hara abheda they may have made a mistake, perhaps a considerable mistake in creating that idol. I am not an expert on the sthapati sastra but what ever little I know from that I can say there is no such idol described. Also the sthapati sastras have a curse on such distortions, if such thing is done/or/shown then the nature will show its wrath by unleashing natural disasters. Remember Mother Parvati is also the mother of nature (Uma). However, I would please request Veera Saiva to speak over phone to solve this matter. Please have an acadamic discussion about this solve this matter behind the doors. A fight in public about the status of our idols would destroy the image of Hinduism. Om namah Sivaayah - siddham namaH, Madhava veera saiva [vsaiva] Sunday, October 02, 2005 7:06 AM info; advaitin-owner; advaitin Lodging complaint: Shiva Keshava Maha Yajnam Hara Hara Maha Deva! The livermore temple is performing Shiva Kesava Maha Yagnam. Here they have combined half Vishnu and Half Shiva. Please visit website at http://www.livermoretemple.org/ to see the distortion. We request Livermore temple to apologize to the devotees of Maha Shiva. How can you combine two differet 'half' Gods? Shiva's other side only is Mother parvathi not vishnu. You can't seperate Mother Parvathi from Shiva. This is serious matter and you are deeply hurting our feelings. If this is not withdrawn soon we will launch a campaign against the distortion and file a defamation suite. You can do Maha Shiva Yagnam and Maha Vishnu Yagnam seperately. You don't need to combine, distort, destroy and create half gods. Let Shiva open his third eye towards all those trying to distort this. Hara Hara Maha Deva! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Namaste: The origin for this thread of discussion is an email sent by Veera Saiva (Staunch Devotees of Lord Siva) to Liverpool Temple with a copy to the email address: advaitin-owner. This person has also tried to send a copy to the advaitin list. Since this person is not a member, the email never appeared in the list. All the moderators of the list have received the email and it is impossible for us to stop emails addressed to the email address advaitin-owner. I would consider any discussions regarding the subject matter of complaint by Veera Saiva is certainly beyond the scope of this list. Those who have responded to this email thought (they honestly did not know that this email never appeared in the list). This is one of problems that we all face when we try to reply an email with the option of "reply to all addresses." In conclusion, members are notified that the appearance of this discussion in this list happened due to an inadvertant error. Please do not discuss any more on this subject matter because it is a very delicate subject and take the discussions to unintended horizons. Thanks again for your cooperation and understanding, Ram Chandran > > veera saiva [vsaiva] > Sunday, October 02, 2005 7:06 AM > info@l...; advaitin-owner; > advaitin > Lodging complaint: Shiva Keshava Maha Yajnam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Hari OM! Dear Ones, Shiva, and Vishnu is Lord Ayyappa, Ayyappa is the Son of Shiva and Vishnu there is no harm in doing Hari Hara Yagna, Ayyappa is hte Abode of Advaitam, 'TAT TWAM ASI" That Thou Art. With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 > Hara Hara Maha Deva! > How > can you combine two differet 'half' Gods? Shiva's > other side only is Mother > parvathi not vishnu. You can't seperate Mother > Parvathi from Shiva. > You can do Maha Shiva Yagnam and Maha Vishnu Yagnam > seperately. You don't > need to combine, distort, destroy and create half > gods. Respected Members, While many of you have rightly quoted instances from the Scriptures upholding the Ekatva between Shiva and Vishnu, I wish to further bring to your notice (ancient) temples which infact have both Hari as well as Hara as a single deity. The ancient (11th Century) temple in Harihar (Karnataka) is one such temple. Infact, the deity here is Half Vishnu & Half Shiva. http://www.india9.com/i9show/34195.htm Shankaranarayana, another town in Karnataka, also has a ShivaVishnu temple. So does a temple in Rajasthan (near Jaisalmer). To fail to see the Oneness of Supreme Being reflects on our immaturity. Regards, Raghavendra Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 Yes, Shiva and Vishnu are One...:-) Love all... On 10/3/05, Krishna Prasad <rkrishp99 wrote: > > Hari OM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 Madhava Turumella <madhava wrote: I think this matter has to be referred to the Agama -sthapati sastras. I think there is no idol/statue described in sastras which has half vishnu and half siva. >n the eagerness of showing the siva-kesava / hari-hara abheda they may have made a mistake, perhaps a considerable mistake in creating that idol. I am not an expert on the sthapati sastra but what ever little I know from that I can say there is no such idol described. Also the sthapati sastras have a curse on such distortions, if such thing is done/or/shown then the nature will show its wrath by unleashing natural disasters. < Dear Advaitins, There is BRAHMAN. Everything else are reflections. Even taking this posting about the Yajnam as Dvaita concept, there are Temples for Sankara Narayana (as one vigraha) for sure in TamilNadu and other states.I have had the opportunity to work with one of the greatest Sthapati, who comes from the direct lineage of the Temple architect of the BIG Temple in Tanjavur (Brahadeeswarer Temple)and before over the thousands of years. After a full discussion of the concept of Siva and Vishnu, we reflected that in the Rajagopura of Sri Siva Vishnu Temple, Lanham, Maryland as SankaraNarayana and RishabaKunjera with a statement ABEDHA DARSANAM JANANM. There is absolutely nothing wrong in doing the Shiva Kesava Maha Yajnam by Livermore Temple and we should refrain from any finger pointing. If one wants to pray with one or other representations that should be fine. Even one can do this in an abstract fashion that is great. What ever works in the right direction should be fine. Tat Tvam Asi Regards, Siva Subramanian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 Namaste Sri Siva: I request you visit the homepage of the temple. According to reliable information from my friend that the temple doesn't have a deity with half Siva and half Vishnu as you described. Pleaase access the Homepage: http://www.livermoretemple.org/ It only portrays a picture with half siva/half vishnu and nothing more. The picture is just like the statue of Arthanareeswar (half siva/half sakti) at the Sri Meenakshi temple. The picture is presented to announce the Shiva Keshava Maha Yajnam The Yajnam consists of separate Homams for Siva Pariwar and Mahavishnu. I went through the temple homepage thoroughly and they are well aware of the Agama Shastras and Vedic rules of conducting rituals and the installation of deities. Their only mistake probably is the posting of this picture. Honestly, they did not forsee that it can offend some Veera Saivas and Veera Vaishnavas. The temple there is quite similar to the Siva Vishnu Temple in Maryland with separate Sannathis for Siva, Balaji, etc. Warmest regards, Ram Chandran advaitin, Siva Subramanian <doc4baby> wrote: > > > Madhava Turumella <madhava@m...> wrote: > > > I think this matter has to be referred to the Agama -sthapati sastras. I > think there is no idol/statue described in sastras which has half vishnu and > half siva. > > >n the eagerness of showing the siva-kesava / hari-hara abheda they may have > made a mistake, perhaps a considerable mistake in creating that idol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 praNAms Hare Krishna shivAya vishNu rUpAya shiva rUpAya vishNave shivasya hrudayaM vishNu vishNoscha hrudayaM shivaH yaTha shivamayO vishNurEvaM shivamayaH iti skanda purANa vachanaH Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 During 12-13th centuries veera shaiva and veera vaishnava sects became very dominant in the south India. These veera sects were causing more disintegration of the Hinduism than what was done by Sultans. To integrate the people, concept of Harihara was developed around that time. One of the famous telugu poet by name Tikkana somayaji who traslated bulk of Mahabharata into telugu is bhakta of Harihara. Madhava perhaps can quote the pertinent poems from Mahabhaarat with meaning - It starts with Shree yana gourinaabaragu chelvagu chittamu pallavimpa bha draayita muurtiyai hariharambagu ruupamu daalchi vishNuruu paaya nama shivaaya ani palkedu ....... ....... paratatvamu golcheda nishhTasiddhikin Where the authors identifies shree and gouri as one with vishnu and shiva as one. Hari Om! Sadananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 List Moderator's Note: While replying a post, please do not include the entire message of previous poster's message in the tail. Remove the tails so that your message becomes easy to read. This request is for all new members and existing members who do not observe this unwritten net ethics. Knowledgeable advaitins like you do not give importance to form and shape. However, devotees who haven't reached that higher stratum are not comfortable and temples should respect the sentiments of those bhaktas. ---------------------------- I want to quote from "Mantra Pushpa" which is read often " Akashat UtPathitam thoyam yatah gatchati Sagaram Sarva Deva Namskaaraha Keshavam Prati Gatchati" and why "Narayana" name is being highly used in Hinduism is not that he is different from Shiva. Narayana means nara+ayana, the goal for Naras(Human Beings), or the path for all human endevours. Its just the same "Brahma" which appears in different forms. So I request you not to view Shiva as One God and Vishnu as another, yea for worshipping sake you can do that (This is called Ananya bakti) and this reduces distractions and help oneself to attain ekagratha, but please have the concious that there is "No Two". As two leaves come out of the seed so do Shiva and Keshava from the Brahma, indeed if you look at it keenly there is no differnce between all the three except in the upadhi, they appear different for "Human Indriyas" Thanks Prashanth advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <RamChandran@a...> wrote: > > Namaste Sri Siva: > > I request you visit the homepage of the temple. According to > reliable information from my friend that the temple > doesn't have a deity with half Siva and half Vishnu as you > described. Pleaase access the Homepage: > > http://www.livermoretemple.org/ > > It only portrays a picture with half siva/half vishnu and nothing > more. The picture is just like the statue of Arthanareeswar (half > siva/half sakti) at the Sri Meenakshi temple. The picture is > presented to announce the Shiva Keshava Maha Yajnam > The Yajnam consists of separate Homams for Siva Pariwar and > Mahavishnu. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Namaste Sri Rama Chandran, You are correct that the Livermore Temple which I have visited many times, does not have a vigraha of SankaraNarayana. I should have made it more clear in my posting that the SankaraNarayana vigraha that I was mentioning about is in the top 7th tier of the RajaGopuram of the Sri Siva Vishnu Temple in Lanham, Maryland as an example of such a concept exist both in USA and in TamilNadu, India. It is not against the Silpa Aghama of the Sthapathya Veda (as per books as well as according to the expert Sri Ganapati Sthapati, Ex-Principal of the only College of Temple Architecture located in Mahabalipuram, Tamilnadu). Hope this clarifies the posting. Thanks, Siva Ram Chandran <RamChandran wrote: Namaste Sri Siva: I request you visit the homepage of the temple. According to reliable information from my friend that the temple doesn't have a deity with half Siva and half Vishnu as you described. Pleaase access the Homepage: http://www.livermoretemple.org/ It only portrays a picture with half siva/half vishnu and nothing more. The picture is just like the statue of Arthanareeswar (half siva/half sakti) at the Sri Meenakshi temple. The picture is presented to announce the Shiva Keshava Maha Yajnam The Yajnam consists of separate Homams for Siva Pariwar and Mahavishnu. I went through the temple homepage thoroughly and they are well aware of the Agama Shastras and Vedic rules of conducting rituals and the installation of deities. Their only mistake probably is the posting of this picture. Honestly, they did not forsee that it can offend some Veera Saivas and Veera Vaishnavas. The temple there is quite similar to the Siva Vishnu Temple in Maryland with separate Sannathis for Siva, Balaji, etc. Warmest regards, Ram Chandran advaitin, Siva Subramanian <doc4baby> wrote: > > > Madhava Turumella <madhava@m...> wrote: > > > I think this matter has to be referred to the Agama -sthapati sastras. I > think there is no idol/statue described in sastras which has half vishnu and > half siva. > > >n the eagerness of showing the siva-kesava / hari-hara abheda they may have > made a mistake, perhaps a considerable mistake in creating that idol. Discussion of Shankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy of nonseparablity of Atman and Brahman. Advaitin List Archives available at: http://www.eScribe.com/culture/advaitin/ To Post a message send an email to : advaitin Messages Archived at: advaitin/messages Advaita Bhagavad gita Visit your group "advaitin" on the web. advaitin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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