Advaitin List's Position on the Subject for Discussion

[Guest guest]

List Moderator's note:

 

Sri Tribhuvan Pabari has raised several questions regarding list positions in

response to Sri Bhasker's reply to his postings on the series with the subject

title - 'Knowledge.' The questions raised are quite delicate and bottom line of

the issue is "How does the list draw the line regarding the relevance of the

subject matter of discussion that confirms with the list's scope and

guidelines?" Those who have been in the list for a long-time know that the list

tried to entertain discussions pertain to other philosophies that include

Buddhism, Dwaitam and visistadwaitam. When the discussions went far away from

the scope of this list, the moderators intervined to stop those discussions.

None of the moderators are really interested in stopping any discussion but at

times they are compelled when discussions moved away from the subject matter and

targeted towards personalities. The list will be happy to entertain the wish of

authors who want to share their expertise on specific philosophy which has

potentials to improve spiritual growth of members. The authors who want to share

such thoughts are more than welcome to post articles in the list. But everyone

is again reminded that this list's primary focus is "Sankara's Advaita

Philosophy" and the list will not permit posters not to follow the list post

guidelines such as respecting all sages, saints, philosophers irrespective of

their religion and national origin. It is a good idea for those authors to send

private email to the email address: advaitins with what they want to

post with complete details. The list will be more than happy to provide such

authors to post a series of articles on the agreed upon topics and posting

guidelines.

-----------------

 

 

 

Dear spiritual, respected, and very valuable all brothers and sisters,

 

I wish every moment shower of peace and happiness is coming from God

Father to all.

“My humble & earnest apologies in advance if my below remarks hurt anyone...”

Above sentence is clearly indicating that your internal, real,

spiritual feeling is not agreed with your statement. Because you are going to

tell against Advaita and that is dvaitic.

 

Originally each and every soul is Advaitin. Because of

body-conscious we came down from our originally state. Advaitin mean real merge

in self. By thought one will realise that we are all one. All are mine. If in

one’s mind any thought will emerge that this one is Buddhist, that one

swaminarayan, or Brahma kumaris and so on to this can you tell Advaitin? This is

purely dvaitic.

 

Even Shankaracharyaji, Buddha, Christ, Prajapita Brahma all are real

Advaitin, because they all said forever that all are mine. Even in Padav

Yudhisthir was real Advaitin. Because he was behaving, in practically the real

theory that all are mine, with Duriyodhan he was behaving as like his real

brother.

 

You see when unhappy man bore by his life then he will go for

suicide. When happy man is bore by all physical belonging, and then he will go

for spiritual life. And when spiritual man by wrong theory fail to achieve real

happiness in life, then he will go for opposing other spiritual person this is

the suicide of his spiritual life. Real spiritual person will not abject for

anyone.

 

 

My dear brother I like to ask you one question whether Shri

Sankaracharyaji asked in his life any time to the group that those are having

different philosophy not to attend in my group. To point out others that you are

not belonging to this philosophy that is also dvaitic.

 

 

What is real Advaitin? Forget action or words but when your thoughts

also must not emerge against anyone. What is real oneness or real union? When

your mind (non-physical) and intellect (non-physical) is in real love and

respect to each and every soul that is a real Advaitin. Even in family so many

members are there, but head of the family is keeping real love and respect to

all the members equally; let member’s philosophy may be different. That is his

greatness.

 

Any one is in connection with any group, may have different

opinion. Every person’s ability is different.

 

Here one brother is ordered to moderators that you do this and that even

moderator simply said yes, that is also moderator’s greatness. but I am asking

simple question to this brother that suppose in your family your wife is having

Buddhist thoughts, and your son is having dvaitic thoughts and your daughter is

having Prajapita Brahma kumaris ishwariya vishva vidhyalay Philosophy and

yourself is having Philosophy of Advaita. In this condition, I ask my dear

brother that by keeping your hand on your heart and answer me, that will you ask

your family members that leave this home and go some other place. So here also

we are all brothers belonging to one God Father’s family and that is oneness or

to that you can say real Advaitin, difference of thoughts may be there. This

whole world is one family that is real Advaita. By hearing every type of

Philosophy, even though, one is able to remain positive that is real greatness

of his life. Let there be Tea, Coffee, Water every things are

available but which is suit me best that I should take. If I like Coffee, but

others wish to have Tea then why should I abject for that? If I object then that

is not real Advaita.

 

“COME ANY ONE FORWARD AND PROVES THAT I AM NOT ADVAITA”

 

Soul name represent for living one. And for soul only we are using

word immortal, indivisible.

 

I give you example of water, suppose there are three glasses of water

in one distil water, second sea water and in third sweet water. Now you mix all

the three glasses of water in one big vessel. Water is there but by any method

or process no one is able to separate SAME molecules of water of any one glass.

So for one molecule of water we are not using the word indivisible.

 

Same way if soul will merge (unite) with any other soul then it is

also possible that both can separate (divide) but this is not possible that is

why all are using the words for that “soul is indivisible”.

 

One more thing for water molecules there is change of form that is

water to ice or steam and during this process some molecules will be scattered

here and there. That is why we are using word for that mortal where as for soul

this is not possible that is why all are using the word immortal for soul only.

 

For merging or not that will not affect the theory of Advaita. Real

merge is to come in our original state that I am a peaceful, blissful, pure,

joyful, knowledgeable and powerful soul. I am a self luminous, very small point

of light. I am energy neither created nor destroyed. And all souls are like me.

How can you think physical merging for non-physical? Soul is living one so there

is no question of merging for living one. Merging is possible in physical

elements but not spiritual. Consciousness cannot divide or unite.

 

bhaskar.yr wrote:

Every soul (actor) is unique and separate entity. So there is no question

of comparison. Every soul is best actor. There is no question of merging

with our home. There also we reside separately. At this time all souls are

able to take power from Supreme Soul by connecting the self by mind

(non-physical) and intellect (non-physical). At this time Supreme Soul is

giving knowledge through Brahma. Some souls because of layers of ego (ego

of money or education or position) or ignorance or body conscious use to

keep doubt in mind (non-physical)

 

praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

My humble & earnest apologies in advance if my below remarks

hurt anyone...

 

As far as my knowledge goes Sri Tribhuvan prabhuji's assertions

are *central* philosophy of brahmakumari samaj (tribhuvan

prabhuji, kindly correct me if I am wrong). I am really not

able to understand what this series of posts has to do with

shankara's advaita vEdAnta....If all the schools are allowed to

share their philosophy in this exclusively dedicated advaita

forum.....we could have also allowed Sri bhikku prabhuji to

share his bhuddhistic thoughts, we can also permit our Jay

Nelamangala prabhuji to share his dvaitic views as well....but

I've seen posts from these two scholars have been abruptly

ended for further discussion by the moderators by saying it is

*out of the scope of list policies*. ( anyway, we could have

asked jay prabhuji to promote his dvaitic thoughts *without

attacking* advaita like tribhuvan prabhuji doing all these

days..but we didn't do that!! I dont know why!!)

 

I humbly request respected moderators of this list to clarify

their stand on these type of posts. So that scholars from

different background can start their series of mails on their

respecitve schools without attacking advaita vEdAnta.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

 

PS : Since I need the clarification from other prabhujis

(members) also who want to discuss *only* advaita in this

forum, I mailed this post to list instead of addressing it to

the moderators. Hope, moderators would not mind.

[Guest guest]

praNAms Sri Tribhuvan prabhuji

Hare Krishna

 

Moderators have already clarified their stand & given green signal to go

ahead with your postings on brahma kumari philosophy...By following their

instructions you can start your postings prabhuji.

 

Since you have raised some questions about advaita & advaitin's perspective

in handling other schools, I'd like to clarify my understanding. Here we

go:

 

TP prabhuji:

 

"My humble & earnest apologies in advance if my below remarks hurt

anyone..."

 

Above sentence is clearly indicating that your internal, real, spiritual

feeling is not agreed with your statement. Because you are going to tell

against Advaita and that is dvaitic.

 

bhaskar :

 

prabhuji, strictly speaking, there can be *nothing* against advaita...but

when we are interacting in the cyber net we do follow dvaita :-)) So,

statements following etiquettes of electronic media do carry the taste of

duality only though it is not *against* advaita

 

TP prabhuji:

 

Originally each and every soul is Advaitin.

 

bhaskar :

 

*individuality* of the soul is what has fundamentally been questioned by

advaita...

 

TP prabhuji:

 

Because of body-conscious we came down from our originally state.

 

bhaskar :

 

there is no coming down & going up process of jIva-s in advaita

vEdAnta...alongwith body, mind & intellect complex, the socalled

individuality of the soul is also called *avidya* in advaita. But according

to your school, the number of souls is finite

and the roles they play are also finite. Your schools declare that souls

come from the soul world and play their roles at the appropriate time and

will all return there before continuing on in the next cycle etc. etc. You

know prabhuji, these are all alien concepts to advaita.

 

TP prabhuji:

 

Advaitin mean real merge in self. By thought one will realise that we are

all one. All are mine.

 

bhaskar :

 

but dont you say prabhuji, there are *finite* no. of souls...dont you say

mOksha (or eternal liberation) is not considered as necessary or even

possible as the concept of space and time and souls are very different

eternally. Where is the question of merging (with what !!??) & realization

of *oneness* ??

 

TP prabhuji:

 

If in one's mind any thought will emerge that this one is Buddhist, that

one swaminarayan, or Brahma kumaris and so on to this can you tell

Advaitin? This is purely dvaitic.

 

bhaskar :

 

yes prabhuji, when shankara countering the arguments of bhuddhist,

sAnkhya-s his approach was dvaitic..but please note this point of view is

different from transcedental *absolute* platform....

 

TP prabhuji :

 

Real spiritual person will not abject for anyone.

 

bhaskar :

 

yes ofcourse prabhuji...but you must know this advaitin forum has some

stipulations with regard to postings...that is what I tried to bring to the

notice of you.

 

TP prabhuji:

 

My dear brother I like to ask you one question whether Shri Sankaracharyaji

asked in his life any time to the group that those are having different

philosophy not to attend in my group. To point out others that you are not

belonging to this philosophy that is also dvaitic.

 

bhaskar :

 

:-)) perhaps, at that time exclusive advaitin like this would

have not been there :-))..Kindly dont think we are against other schools &

their perspective...for that matter shankara himself said paramataM

apratishiddhaM anumataM bhavati...but it does not anyway mean, exclusive

forums like this should entertain all & sundry...(atleast in my opinion

based on treatment given earlier to posts from dvaita school). There are

plenty of open forums (like vAdAvaLi) where you can share & present your

views & put across your points for discussion & debates...No need to stick

to a particular list like this which is exclusively dedicated & more

particular about propagating shankara philosophy.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

--- bhaskar.yr wrote:

>

> TP prabhuji:

>

> My dear brother I like to ask you one question whether Shri

> Sankaracharyaji

> asked in his life any time to the group that those are having

> different

> philosophy not to attend in my group. To point out others that you are

> not

> belonging to this philosophy that is also dvaitic.

>

> bhaskar :

>

> :-)) perhaps, at that time exclusive advaitin like this

> would

> have not been there :-))

 

Shree Tribuvan

 

PraNaams.

I have to agree with Shree Bhaskar. Although the list moderators

tolerate and allow to some degree other philosophies, the scope of the

list primarily is limited to the advaita as expounded by Bhagavaan

Shankara. There are several dvaita-lists where you can expound your

concepts. There is also a Vaadaavali list serve that encourages

discussions between various philosophies. If your primary object is to

present your dvaitic philosophy, I must discourage you and support

Bhaskarji's objection. If you are high lightening the differences

between the two philosophies without endorsing either one, you are

welcome to do that, keeping in mind the list serve's primary objective.

 

I request you to follow the list serve's rules.

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

On 10/5/05, Sri Bhaskar wrote:

> But according

> to your school, the number of souls is finite

> and the roles they play are also finite. Your schools declare that souls

> come from the soul world and play their roles at the appropriate time and

> will all return there before continuing on in the next cycle etc. etc. You

> know prabhuji, these are all alien concepts to advaita.

 

....and it goes on to build up concepts upon concepts about dada,

baapdada, muralis, advance party etc. etc. which do not find any

support in advaita tradition. Let me make it clear that I do not see

anything wrong in developing and elaborating innovative models for

explaining the creation except that:

 

1) Apart from the regular participants, these archives are also

accessed by numerous casual browsers. There is a possibility of

someone being misled about position of classical advaita that this

list claims to adhere.

 

2) Speculations unsupported by shruti are not encouraged in classical advaita.

 

Therefore, it is only proper that posts having fundamental differences

from bhagvatpAda's philosophy are at least marked in the subject line

itself.

 

praNAm