WHERE IS GOD?

[Guest guest]

WHERE IS GOD?

 

 

TastingSugar/

 

Rasa Von Werder

October 23, 2005

 

Please answer these questions on this site or the one listed above.

It is for an article I am writing and for discussion to edify many.

 

1 If God is in Infinity and therefore beyond us, how can we know God?

 

2 If God is infinite can there be such a thing as one perfect

religion or best religion for everyone?

 

3 How do you decide which religion or spiritual discipline is good,

bad or not so good?

 

4 Should God be symbolized as Spirit/Energy, as male God, Mother God

or how? What is the best symbolism to you and why?

 

5 Almost all religions, certainly most, espouse love. Why then has

so much evil ocurred in the name of God?

 

6 If you are God in the yoga/Buddhist sense of the word, then should

you still pray? Or just work on being God or finding the Self/God

within? Should you work only on nonduality or should you work on the

dual vision also?

 

7 Which is more important, finding your own Enlightenment, or helping

others? If tending to others interferes with your meditation and God

presence, should you ignore them or should you tend to them, even

though they disturb your inner state?

 

8 If God is within each person (as well as all creation) why is God

so difficult to find? Shouldn't this be easy?

 

9 What is the purpose of mystical experiences; visions, voices,

dreams, revelations and such. Are they good in any way or bad?

 

10 If you had to spend the rest of your life on an island with people

how would you like them to be? Describe the kind of people you could

bear spending the rest of your life with on an island.

 

 

11 When you see God face to face how will God look? When you die and

go to Heaven, what will you see? Explain what you think you will see.

 

Thank you for answering. Please if you will discuss this here or on

the group:

 

TastingSugar/

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Rasa Von Werder" <rasa@w...> wrote:

>

> WHERE IS GOD?

>

> Please answer these questions on this site or the one listed

above.

> It is for an article I am writing and for discussion to edify many

 

Namaste.

 

I am giving my answers, almost offhand, as if I am answering a press

reporter. So if the answers don't satisfy you, I don't expect to be

able to convince you.

> 1 If God is in Infinity and therefore beyond us, how can we know

God?

VK: That is why we cannot know Him. We can only aim to have

glimpses of His infinite effulgence, by tasting some drops of Him.

> 2 If God is infinite can there be such a thing as one perfect

> religion or best religion for everyone?

 

VK: There cannot be a perfect religion or best religion for every

one. "loko bhinna-ruchiH" -- the world has multifarious tastes. So

no single religion can cater to everybody.

> 3 How do you decide which religion or spiritual discipline is

good,

> bad or not so good?

 

VK: Let me ask the counter-question. Who are you, Who am I, to

decide which religion is good or bad?

>

> 4 Should God be symbolized as Spirit/Energy, as male God, Mother

God

> or how? What is the best symbolism to you and why?

 

VK: If the words "to you" are taken out of the question, then the

answer is the same as that to question 3. Who are we to do this

symbolization? If the words "to you" are retained in the question,

then my answer is, I like the advaita way of looking into the whole

problem.

> 5 Almost all religions, certainly most, espouse love. Why then

has

> so much evil ocurred in the name of God?

 

VK: Evil did not occur in the name of God. There are evil-doers in

the name of God. God is not responsible for them. Mankind is

responsible for its own foolishness. Individual people, are

responsible for this general foolishness of mankind.

 

> 6 If you are God in the yoga/Buddhist sense of the word, then

should

> you still pray? Or just work on being God or finding the Self/God

> within? Should you work only on nonduality or should you work on

the

> dual vision also?

 

VK: I skip this question because I don't have enough knowledge of

the 'if' part of the question.

>

> 7 Which is more important, finding your own Enlightenment, or

helping

> others? If tending to others interferes with your meditation and

God

> presence, should you ignore them or should you tend to them, even

> though they disturb your inner state?

 

VK: This depends on the state of the mind of the individual. There

have been both kinds in the history of the world. Neither is right

or wrong.

>

> 8 If God is within each person (as well as all creation) why is

God

> so difficult to find? Shouldn't this be easy?

 

VK: The question seems to assume that God is something which can be

anatomically found within each person. The statement "God is within

each person" is not a statement to be understand physically or

biologically or psychologically. This 'God' who is within is the

spiritual content of each person. Unless you know how to look

spiritually within, you will never get to him. Therefore it is not

easy. The major obstacle is the presence of the ego in man which

links him to the body, mind, intellect. The difficulty is because we

have to transcend these.

 

> 9 What is the purpose of mystical experiences; visions, voices,

> dreams, revelations and such. Are they good in any way or bad?

 

VK: Is there a purpose? Good or bad from what angle of vision? For

a non-believer, a spiritual experience might open up some untold

facet of his own personality. For a spiritual seeker who is already

on the path, the experience may be only an obstacle. So 'good or

bad' depends on the individual.

>

> 10 If you had to spend the rest of your life on an island with

people

> how would you like them to be? Describe the kind of people you

could

> bear spending the rest of your life with on an island.

 

VK: I am sorry I am not interested in the question or its answer!

>

> 11 When you see God face to face how will God look? When you die

and

> go to Heaven, what will you see? Explain what you think you will

see.

VK: See my answer to Question 4.

 

> Thank you for answering.

 

 

PraNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

>

[Guest guest]

[Rasa Von Werder wrote:]

>

> 6 If you are God in the yoga/Buddhist sense of the word, then should

> you still pray? Or just work on being God or finding the Self/God

> within? Should you work only on nonduality or should you work on the

> dual vision also?

>

 

**Ramesh:

 

Namaste,

 

I object to your use of the word "yoga" in the above context. One

needs to be more careful before using Hindu terminology in this

manner, and the above is a rather unfortunate case of misuse. For your

convenience, I am explaining the term below as it evolved

historically.

 

1. In its earliest phase, Yoga was a generic term for spiritual

practice or discipline (as opposed to "Saankhya" which stood for

"theory" or "knowledge"). It is in this sense that Yoga is used in the

Bhagavad Gita, which refers to karma yoga, bhakti yoga, jnana yoga,

sannyasa yoga, etc. Different schools of Hinduism interpret the Gita

in different ways with varying viewpoints on these yoga-s. These

different schools also have differing conceptions of Self, God, etc,

so your use of "Yoga" in this sense does not mean anything. It must

also be clear that Bhakti Yoga, Karma Yoga, etc are NOT different

"schools of Yoga". They are practices that were developed and

emphasised differently by different schools of Hinduism.

 

2. In the second phase, both Saankhya and Yoga came to refer to

specific schools of Hinduism. The Yoga school was systematized by

Maharshi (sage) Patanjali in his Yoga Sutra-s. There were 6 classical

Hindu (Vedic) schools which recognized the authority of the Veda-s,

with Saankhya and Yoga being two of them. Vedanta, based on the

Vedanta Sutra-s of Vyasa, is another of these 6 schools. Advaita

Vedanta, which is the topic of this list, is the oldest sub-school of

Vedanta. The Saankhya and Yoga schools were closely related and often

mentioned together. Saankhya refers to 25 elements (tattva-s), which

include two primal ones, Purusha (spirit/the passive witness/self,

etc) and Prakrti (matter or materiality). The other 23 elements are

essentially manifestations of Prakrti. The dualism of Purusha and

Prakrti is the centrepiece of Saankhya and this dualism is not

accepted by Advaita Vedanta. The Yoga school accepts the tattva-s of

Saankhya but adds Ishvara (loosely translated as "God") as the 26th

tattva. Hence the classical Yoga school is theistic, but please note

that it is NOT non-dual. Maharshi Patanjali himself was a great

devotee of Shiva, so there is absolutely no problem with worship.

However, the classical Yoga school was dualistic.

 

3. In the 3rd phase, the Yoga school was effectively absorbed into

Vedanta, especially Advaita Vedanta. The most important work on the

Yoga school after the Yoga Sutra-s was the Yogasutrabhashya

(commentary on the Yoga Sutra) by Vyasa, who was also the author of

the Vedanta Sutra-s. After Adi Sankaracharya established the

dashanaami order of Advaita Vedantin monks, Yoga effectively ceased to

exist as a separate school and was absorbed into Vedanta. Advaita

Vedanta rejected Yogic dualism but accepted most other aspects of the

Yoga school and developed them further. A seminal contribution in this

regard was that of Vachaspati Mishra in his Tattvavaisharadi (10th

cen). A 14th century Advaita text that lists various Hindu (as well as

Buddhist/Jain) schools mentions the Yoga school as being the closest

to Advaita Vedanta. Over the centuries, many Advaitin masters have

also been great yogins. Many techniques of meditation, breath control,

etc have been developed within the Advaita Vedanta tradition. However,

it must be noted that other Hindu schools have also developed such

techniques.

 

So if you refer to "Yoga" in its Advaita Vedantic sense, you are

talking non-dualism. At first glance, prayer seems to be opposed to

non-dualism but it is not so. Bhakti, which includes worship, is an

accepted means for chitta-shuddhi (purification of the mind) as it

helps destroy the ego. At its highest, Bhakti is synonymous with

Jnana, the knowledge of non-dualism. But the special importance of

Bhakti also comes from the fact that it has no pre-requisites and can

be practised easily by anyone regardless of his/her spiritual

advancement. On the other hand, jnana has rather demanding

pre-requisites in the form of the 4-fold qualifications of (1)

dispassion, (2) discrimination (between the real and the unreal), (3)

the 6 'treasures' (calmness, sense control, concentration, etc) and

(4) intense desire for liberation. So again, though worship is not

strictly essential, it is highly recommended for everyone but the most

advanced seekers.

 

Therefore, in modern usage, "Yoga" can have any of the following meanings:

 

1. The original sense of any spiritual practice (karma yoga, bhakti

yoga, etc). Please note that these terms have specific meanings

depending on the Hindu school being talked about.

 

2. The Yoga school of Patanjali - one of the 6 classical schools of Hinduism

 

3. Generic usage for techniques of meditation, breath control, etc.

These were historically developed by various Hindu sects/schools in

very ancient times (references to such practices are found in many of

the Upanishhads, which have a tradition long predating the Yoga

Sutra-s), but Patanjali's school was the first major school to

systematize them. Again each Hindu school, especially Advaita Vedanta

which absorbed the classical Yoga school, has its own techniques

developed over the centuries. Different Buddhist and Jain schools also

have their own methods and also use the term "Yoga" in this sense.

 

4. The modern "secularized" sense referring exclusively to postures &

breath control which lumps it with the likes of aerobics and other

forms of exercise. Frankly speaking, such usage, through very common

nowadays, is absolutely demeaning to the spiritual ethos of Hinduism.

 

Buddhism is clearly a religion but Yoga is not even a sect except in

the second sense used above (the Yoga school of Patanjali). But even

the Yoga school of Patanjali is not an existing independent sect but

one of the 6 classical Hindu schools that has since been absorbed into

Vedanta.

 

Therefore, it would have been better if you had replaced

"yoga/Buddhist" with "Hindu/Buddhist" or atleast "Vedic/Buddhist".

Then one can get around to discussing various conceptions of self/God,

etc in Hinduism and Buddhism. Incidentally, there is no concept of

Self in Buddhism, though some Buddhist schools such as Vijnaanavada do

come close.

 

Hari Om

Ramesh

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Rasa Von Werder" <rasa@w...> wrote:

>

> WHERE IS GOD?

> Rasa Von Werder

> October 23, 2005

>

> Please answer these questions on this site or the one listed above.

> It is for an article I am writing and for discussion to edify many.

 

Nathan- Here are my current views and answers.

> 1 If God is in Infinity and therefore beyond us, how can we know

God?

 

Nathan- By realizing our own infinite nature, which is God, not the

person we believe ourselves to be. One could have communion with God

in Samadhi (Savikalpa Samadhi), or BE God in Nirvakalpa Samadhi.

>

> 2 If God is infinite can there be such a thing as one perfect

> religion or best religion for everyone?

 

Nathan- No matter what the religion, the truth cannot be told with

words. Some religions will have better pointers and come as close as

possible with words. There are many paths, whatever will result in

spiritual progress for that individual at the time is best.

>

> 3 How do you decide which religion or spiritual discipline is good,

> bad or not so good?

 

Nathan- If it leads towards your original nature, it is good. If it

leads away, it is bad. You just need to try.

>

> 4 Should God be symbolized as Spirit/Energy, as male God, Mother

God

> or how? What is the best symbolism to you and why?

 

Nathan- All thoughts about God will probably be untruth. That is why

direct experience is needed.

> 5 Almost all religions, certainly most, espouse love. Why then has

> so much evil ocurred in the name of God?

 

Nathan- Because they think only their way is good and all others are

bad. So a Christian will feel justified warring against Muslims and

vice versa. Of course, fighting in the name of God is an ugly thing,

and wrong in my opinion.

>

> 6 If you are God in the yoga/Buddhist sense of the word, then

should

> you still pray? Or just work on being God or finding the Self/God

> within? Should you work only on nonduality or should you work on

the

> dual vision also?

 

Nathan- It depends on the path you've choosen. In my opinion, the

nondual reality is the ultimate result of any path.

>

> 7 Which is more important, finding your own Enlightenment, or

helping

> others? If tending to others interferes with your meditation and

God

> presence, should you ignore them or should you tend to them, even

> though they disturb your inner state?

 

Nathan- The best way of helping others is to realize the Self, then

it will be found that there is in reality no suffering, because there

is no one to suffer. If others disturb you, then you haven't yet

found real peace

>

> 8 If God is within each person (as well as all creation) why is God

> so difficult to find? Shouldn't this be easy?

 

Nathan- Because we wrongly identify ourselves with a body. Because we

have endless thoughts, many waves in the mind. The very searching for

God may be a hindrance to finding.

>

> 9 What is the purpose of mystical experiences; visions, voices,

> dreams, revelations and such. Are they good in any way or bad?

 

Nathan- These experiences may show that we are making progress. The

experiences themselves are not the goal.

> 10 If you had to spend the rest of your life on an island with

people

> how would you like them to be? Describe the kind of people you

could

> bear spending the rest of your life with on an island.

 

Nathan- No comment.

>

>

> 11 When you see God face to face how will God look? When you die

and go to Heaven, what will you see? Explain what you think you will

see.

 

Nathan- I beleive that there are heavens, but I hope that I don't go

to one; I'd rather realize the Self. There may be many gods and

heavens that one goes to, and these gods may have forms. But I don't

think that Iswara, God of creation, has a form.

 

> Thank you for answering. Please if you will discuss this here or on

> the group:

>

> TastingSugar/

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Rasa Von Werder

 

Truth is a very personal thing. It is subjective and understood only

after personal realization. My realization of truth could be entirely

different from your perception. Truth does not follow a faith or creed.

I will find nuggets of truth in both the glorious and in the inglorious

objects of this life. God is there in the sacred texts and even in the

taverns. He is advertising himself all the time. The Sun the Moon, the

Wind all proclaim his glories. Can we see him? If not then the fault is

in our instruments. Unless we correct our instruments we will not see

him even if all the religions of the world are digested by our mind.

Lest of all can we find him in an 11 point questionnaire. The point I

am trying to make is that even if you get all perfect answers to these

11 questions, you will still ask "WHERE IS GOD? ". This answer will

only be obtained when after a long-long reflection the truth suddenly

drops in the lake of your intellect and you say "Ah! so!".

 

 

Regards

Hersh

[Guest guest]

Namaste Haersh-Ji:

 

IMO - Truth is trikaalaatiita meaning true at all times (Past,

Present & future) therefore how could it be personal? Because as

you point out that it introduces a variable, it therefore always

remains absolute. However, it's perception for an individual can be

personal.

 

To get around this ancient sages introduced the concept of observed

truth as "R^ita". Dictionary meaning of this is also truth. Thus

to understand it us can use an example of mass and weight.

 

Mass - Assuming that it is constant.

 

but Weight can change depending where that measurement is taken

because it is dependent on the gravity.

 

A person of 100 pounds on the Earth will weigh only 20 lbs on the

Moon.

 

So weight is R^ita and mass is satya.

 

That why when we perform an puujaa we say a covenant - R^itam vacmi,

satyam vacmi ...

 

Warm regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

 

 

advaitin, "hersh_b" <hershbhasin@g...> wrote:

>

> Dear Rasa Von Werder

>

> Truth is a very personal thing. It is subjective and understood

only

> after personal realization. My realization of truth could be

entirely

> different from your perception. >

>

> Regards

> Hersh

>

[Guest guest]

Nameste Dr. Yadu-Ji

Thank you for the correction. Your example of mass and weight was

very good. I did mean a "personal" truth" in the sense of Mahatama

Gandhi with his "The Story of My Experiments With Truth " or as

Vivekananda says "All is One, which manifests Itself, either as

thought, or life, or soul, or body, and the difference is only in

degree." which I take to mean that we all are struggling to get at

the Truth. Some of us have a higher degree of Truth manifested in

them and some of them less. But this as you point out this is a

personal/subjective truth.

 

Vivekananda "quote"

All of us are going towards the same goal. The difference between

weakness and strength is one of degree; the difference between virtue

and vice is one of degree, the difference between heaven and hell is

one of degree, the difference between life and death is one of

degree, all differences in this world are of degree, and not of kind,

because oneness is the secret of everything. All is One, which

manifests Itself, either as thought, or life, or soul, or body, and

the difference is only in degree. As such, we have no right to look

down with contempt upon those who are not developed exactly in the

same degree as we are. Condemn none; if you can stretch out a helping

hand, do so. If you cannot, fold your hands, bless your brothers, and

let them go their own way. Dragging down and condemning is not the

way to work. Never is work accomplished in that way. We spend our

energies in condemning others. Criticism and condemnation is a vain

way of spending our energies, for in the long run we come to learn

that all are seeing the same thing, are more or less approaching the

same ideal, and that most of our differences are merely differences

of expression.

 

"unquote"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

>How do you decide which religion or spiritual discipline is good,

bad or not so good?

 

This question, to my mind is of very little consequence: --Because

(quoting Vivekananda)

 

"quote"

These doctrines are old, older than many mountains possibly. All

truth is eternal. Truth is nobody's property; no race, no individual

can lay any exclusive claim to it. Truth is the nature of all souls.

Who can lay an, special claim to it? But it has to be made practical,

to be made simple (for the highest truths are always simple), so that

it may penetrate every pore of human society, and become the property

of the highest intellects and the commonest minds, of the man, woman,

and child at the same time. All these ratiocinations of logic, all

these bundles of metaphysics, all these theologies and ceremonies may

have been good in their own time, but let us try to make things

simpler and bring about the golden days when every man will be a

worshipper, and the Reality in every man will be the object of

worship.

"unquote"

 

Warm regards

Hersh

[Guest guest]

Rasa Von Werder <rasa wrote:

 

 

WHERE IS GOD?

 

 

TastingSugar/

 

Rasa Von Werder

October 23, 2005

 

Please answer these questions on this site or the one listed above.

It is for an article I am writing and for discussion to edify many.

 

1 If God is in Infinity and therefore beyond us, how can we know God?

 

* * God is not in infinity but his power is in infinity. (For example king is

not in infinity but his power is in infinity throughout his kingdom.) So He is

not far from us. If you know self (soul) then it is very easy to know Him.

 

2 If God is infinite can there be such a thing as one perfect

religion or best religion for everyone?

 

 

 

* * God is not infinite and one perfect religious for everyone is self religious

that is peace, love, purity, happiness etc. and that is best for everyone.

 

3 How do you decide which religion or spiritual discipline is good,

bad or not so good?

 

 

 

* * Peace, love, purity, and happiness is self religious for everyone and that

is good for spiritual discipline.

 

4 Should God be symbolized as Spirit/Energy, as male God, Mother God

or how? What is the best symbolism to you and why?

 

 

 

* * God is a Supreme Soul, actually for Soul there is no gender but when comes

in body then there is gender male or female. For Supreme Soul word incarnation

we are using because anytime He does not have His own body but for soul word

birth we are using that is common for all. God Father is the best symbolism to

me.

 

5 Almost all religions, certainly most, espouse love. Why then has

so much evil ocurred in the name of God?

 

 

 

* * Love is self’s (soul’s) religious but today all are in body conscious state

that is why all are fighting each other on the name of religious and name of God

when soul is coming in body conscious state at this time he or she far away from

real knowledge, even though, all are in search of real love. That is self

religious.

 

6 If you are God in the yoga/Buddhist sense of the word, then should

you still pray? Or just work on being God or finding the Self/God

within? Should you work only on nonduality or should you work on the

dual vision also?

 

 

 

* * I am not God but soul child of beloved God Father, and not necessary to pray

in my original state. Soul, when come on this earth for acting. During act,

when soul become body conscious, and becoming unhappy in life. To remove rust

of body conscious he or she likes to get non-physical connection with God

Father. Supreme Soul is forever in Soul conscious State. I work on the dual

vision.

 

 

 

7 Which is more important, finding your own Enlightenment, or helping

others? If tending to others interferes with your meditation and God

presence, should you ignore them or should you tend to them, even

though they disturb your inner state?

 

 

 

* * I will go for finding my own enlightenment, and side by side helping others.

If my approach is right and heartily then there will not be any interfere and I

will explain by proper manner I am sure all souls actually in want of truth but

because of ignorance they are not ready to accept it. Once they realize the real

fact they will agree for the same.

 

8 If God is within each person (as well as all creation) why is God

so difficult to find? Shouldn't this be easy?

 

 

 

* * God mean Supreme Soul is our Father we all souls are children of Supreme

Soul. How father can be inside their own children?

 

9 What is the purpose of mystical experiences; visions, voices,

dreams, revelations and such. Are they good in any way or bad?

 

 

 

* * They are very good provided you go in right way.

 

10 If you had to spend the rest of your life on an island with people

how would you like them to be? Describe the kind of people you could

bear spending the rest of your life with on an island.

 

 

 

* * I like to stay with people on an island and I would like them to be honest,

real love with each other, even though, I do not mind to stay with any type of

people because I know that all are behaving as per their sanskars. If I am right

nothing will disturb me.

 

 

11 When you see God face to face how will God look? When you die and

go to Heaven, what will you see? Explain what you think you will see.

 

 

 

* * God is not body. He is invisible but very well realizable. I will go in

heaven I will see there are Deity characters people. All with good natured, good

behaviour, with happy mood, real love with each other, and one religious.

 

Thank you for answering. Please if you will discuss this here or on

the group:

 

 

 

 

TastingSugar/