Guest guest Posted October 23, 2005 Report Share Posted October 23, 2005 OM TAT SAT Dear friends, Please help me in my manana/chintan. After studying Gita a little bit, I seem to have lost interest in the traditional ambitions, goals of life. By that I mean things like what position I am occupying or how I should climb up the ladder in my company. However, I wonder if this is laziness, or detachment or simply the fact that in the core of my heart I know that I am mediocre and will not progress much. I am myself not sure which of the above is true or it is a combination of all. I feel very blessed by what I have and all good/bad experiences have worked for my good - I feel that from the core of my heart. Intellectually, I think I understand the crux of Advaita and Gita but fail to follow it in daily life. For e.g. Stithpragya is very appealing but when it comes to keeping quiet or controlling anger or judging others, I fail repeatedly. Speaking of nitya-anitya vastuviveka, I understand what is anitya but the ego keeps throwing a counter question - what is wrong with anitya stuff - at the level of material life, it is very real. I don't seem to have a good answer to this challenge thrown by the ego. Thanks for allowing me to post basic questions on this august forum of great scholars and teachers. OM TAT SAT FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2005 Report Share Posted October 23, 2005 advaitin, Brahmarpanam Brahmhavih <mahadevadvaita> wrote: > Intellectually, I think I understand the crux of Advaita and Gita but fail to follow it in daily life. For e.g. Stithpragya is very appealing but when it comes to keeping quiet or controlling anger or judging others, I fail repeatedly. > Speaking of nitya-anitya vastuviveka, I understand what is anitya but the ego keeps throwing a counter question - what is wrong with anitya stuff - at the level of material life, it is very real. I don't seem to have a good answer to this challenge thrown by the ego. > Namaste Intellectual understanding of the crux of advaita is only a first step. As you said rightly, to bring it into practice is the real job for us. Take your two questions: 1. How to control anger or judging others? 2. What is wrong with the anitya stuff? Fortunately or unfortunately you have stumbled into two great questions which have a strong connection. Now why do we get angry? We don't like what is happening? To whom? Either to us or to some one to whom or something to which we have an attachment. Why do we have that attachment? Either that some one is 'close' to us or that something 'belongs' to us. This closeness may be because of a relationship like kith or kin or because of friendship or association. This 'bleonging' may be because it is a possession of us or because it is in some way part of us. In all these cases, there is a concept of 'us' or 'mine' or 'me'. It is this concept which creates the feeling in the mind that generates anger, because, that which has something to do with 'us' has been affected now and we cannot tolerate it. This is where the 'anitya' stuff comes in! Whatever belongs to us is anitya. Whatever happens to us is anitya. Whatever is close to us is anitya. Whatever is part of us is anitya. What is not anitya is ourselves, not the ourself of the ordinary world, but the our Self which is what we are. This is what they say in teaching us 'nityAnitya-vastu viveka'. In judging others we involuntarily place ourselves in a higher pedestal than the one that is being judged by us. Here again we stumble into a position where we make a distinction between 'us' and 'them'. This distinction is part of 'anitya' So every little or great happening that confronts us has to be taken in the stride; that is, very lightly. Because nothing is nitya, permanent. Everything will come and go. What happened today may not even be remembered one year from now. Even if it is remembered its intensity may not be felt as much. Even if the intensity be felt, it might have lost its relevance. ... and so on. One has to analyse in this direction. There is no hard and fast rule. But this analysis will lead us from the little foundations of an intellectual quest, all the way to a conviction of living with spiritual wisdom. PraNAms to all advaitins. profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2005 Report Share Posted October 23, 2005 Namaste, Brahmarpanam Brahmhavih <mahadevadvaita wrote: <<<<<<<<<Speaking of nitya-anitya vastuviveka, I understand what is anitya but the ego keeps throwing a counter question - what is wrong with anitya stuff - at the level of material life, it is very real. I don't seem to have a good answer to this challenge thrown by the ego>>>>. There is nothing wrong with Anita Vastu. However, Anitya Vastu helps one to taste only Anitya Happiness. Our search is for Nitya Happiness. Further, Anitya Vastu has a purpose to serve another Anitya i.e. Ego. There it ends. Who is holding onto Anitya Vastu? It is again an Anitya Ego. Regading Anger, IMHO, it is very difficult to control anger, because anger takes place. It does not ask one's permission like any other emotion. What is important is to understand Anger and controlling at the initial stage does not help, and at later state no controlling will be required, because one proceeds, even if anger takes place, it does not remain there for a long time. For Manana of what one learns, what is required is continuous Ttat chintanam, tat kadhanam and tat parasparabodhanam" i.e. thinking about that, talking about that and mutually understanding about that. What is this That? It is the Swaroopa of Ego, which is Satyam Gnanam and Anantham. Hari Om FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 23, 2005 Report Share Posted October 23, 2005 advaitin, "R.S.MANI" <r_s_mani> wrote: > > > Brahmarpanam Brahmhavih <mahadevadvaita> wrote: > > <<<<<<<<<Speaking of nitya-anitya vastuviveka, I understand what is anitya but the ego keeps throwing a counter question - what is wrong with anitya stuff - at the level of material life, it is very real. I don't seem to have a good answer to this challenge thrown by the ego>>>>. > > For Manana of what one learns, what is required is continuous Namaste, Meditating on Gita verses : 6:35,44; 8:8; 12:9,10,12 & 18:36 If one does not see an improvement in oneself in 3 years, one will have proved Gita to be false! In simple language: "The law of harvest is to reap more than you sow. Sow an act, and you reap a habit. Sow a habit and you reap a character. Sow a character and you reap a destiny." Allen, James 1864-1912 British-born American Essayist Author of As a Man Thinketh Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 respected sri.mahadevan, regarding accepting higher responsibilities...etc... ------VAAK YAGNENA KALPATAAM MANO YAGJENA KALPATAAM AATMA YAGJENA KALPATAAM [one's aatmaa itself is surrendered ... what else is left to surrender ??] YAGJNO YAGJENA KALPATAAM... ref : rudram chamakam.. ...the ultimate propitiation for mahadeva.. respectfully yours, a.v.krshnan. --- Brahmarpanam Brahmhavih <mahadevadvaita wrote: > OM TAT SAT > Dear friends, Please help me in my manana/chintan. > After studying Gita a little bit, I seem to have _________ Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 praNAm Although you may've already got your answers from the great personalities on this forum, I'll try to express my viewpoint too, having gone through similar stumbles myself. Brahmarpanam Brahmhavih: After studying Gita a little bit, I seem to have lost interest in the traditional ambitions, goals of life. By that I mean things like what position I am occupying or how I should climb up the ladder in my company. However, I wonder if this is laziness, or detachment or simply the fact that in the core of my heart I know that I am mediocre and will not progress much. praveen: I tried to see if this feeling lasted for long and where it inclined to. If it remains continuous, then its definitely not laziness (I hope). That would be vairagya inborn! Brahmarpanam Brahmhavih: I am myself not sure which of the above is true or it is a combination of all. Intellectually, I think I understand the crux of Advaita and Gita but fail to follow it in daily life. For e.g. Stithpragya is very appealing but when it comes to keeping quiet or controlling anger or judging other, ... praveen: May I humbly refer you a story that you may've already heard? When Rama, Sita and Lakshmana were walking in the forests (in that order), Lakshmana wanted to see Rama always and Sita blocked his view. When he told this to Rama, the latter said that he needs to pray to Sita to step aside for this, he shouldn't use force; it being similar to human wanting to see God (not literally) and mAyA blocking his/her view. Why I narrated this is anger is quite similar to it caused by mAyA, forcing it away won't do. Sw. Venkatesananda (Sw. Sivananda's disciple) talks of this so-called anger-control so: when someone steps out of meditative bliss and gets into a kitchen and sees milk boil over. At the same time, her kid comes running, she gets angry and loses the bliss there! Next time planning won't work either since the milk's boiling over is as unplanned as the anger! Similarly, one needs to let go of this anger and not forcibly control it. The reason I feel that anger is thought of to need control is because of its repurcussions. If one starts up by leaving associations to the cause and repurcussions of anger, one should find it easy to think that anger has no meaning whatsoever! Its not as easy as I put it, but that what worked for me for my earlier short-temper. Its better now Brahmarpanam Brahmhavih: .... I fail repeatedly. praveen: This won't do, Sir. If you believe you're failing, this will go on endlessly. The very basic of gItA is to disassociate such feeling. The bhakti-bhaava, submissal should help. (Sorry, I may've talked all over the place by interupting this mail during meetings.) krishNArpaNamastu, --praveen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 Namashkar Sri Krishnan-ji! On this auspicious Monday Morning ( Somavaram dedicated ) To Lord Shiva , how pleasing to hear these divine words uttered from Rudram Chamakam. i just finished hearing 'Sivananda Lahiri' composed by Adi Shankara Bhagvadapada .My day has already started on a wonderful note. May i please share these two lines from verse 20 Of SivanandaLahiri kapaalin.h bhiksho me hR^idayakapimatyantachapalaM dR^iDhaM bhaktyaa baddhvaa shiva bhavadadhiinaM kuru vibho .. 20.. Here, Adwaita-Acharya ADI Shankara says to Shiva bhagwan " MY mind itself is like a MONKEY please take it ." - THe hidden meaning in this beautiful verse is why would anyone offer Bhiksha to a man like Shiva , who although appears to be a Beggar, but whose face has the lustre ( tejas) and Bshines brilliantly like the blaze of thousand suns ! Here Acharya offers his 'mind' which is like a monkey . In india , if you see many beggars take 'monkeys' along with them while begging for alms. What a beautiful Bhava ! only our shankara bhagvadapada can sing like this - rasa and bhava - a great combination! ( professor-ji, please help me out) So, mere 'speech ' is not enough ! Merely saying 'shiva' 'shiva ' is not enough ! While saying 'shiva-shiva' the mind should also be dedicated to the lotus feet of the lord ! now , how is this possible ... adi shankara goes on to say in verse 5 in that same Sivananda Lahiri kathaM raaGYaaM priitirbhavati mayi ko.ahaM pashupate pashuM maaM sarvaGYa prathita kR^ipayaa paalaya vibho || 5|| Adi Shankara is praying to Lord Shiva to shower him with 'mercy or grace ( kripaya paalaya vibho) without minding his adhikaratwam (disqualifications.) Even 'surrender' to the Ishwara is possible only when the Lord wills it ! Hara Hara SHANKARA ! JAYA JAYA SHANKARA ! AUM NAMO CHANDRA MOULEESHWERAYA ! ( a request to sunder-ji, could you please direct to me to a site where there is an English translation of Sivananda lahiri ? pl) -- In advaitin, av krshnan <avkrshnan> wrote: > > respected sri.mahadevan, > regarding accepting higher > responsibilities...etc... > > ------VAAK YAGNENA KALPATAAM > MANO YAGJENA KALPATAAM > AATMA YAGJENA KALPATAAM > > [one's aatmaa itself is surrendered ... > what else is left to surrender ??] > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 Dear friends, On Mon, 2005-10-24 at 05:54, Brahmarpanam Brahmhavih wrote: > After studying Gita a little bit, I seem to have lost interest in the > traditional ambitions, goals of life. By that I mean things like what > position I am occupying or how I should climb up the ladder in my > company. ... Here is my, rather simplistic, understanding of how we may apply the gIta lesson of anAsakta karma to our professional careers. The lord is telling Arjuna to fight to his best, win the war and rule / enjoy the earth. He is not telling him to lose interest. Applying the lord's recommendation in the gIta (karmanyEvAdhikArastE mA phalEshu kadAchana ...) to my work, I would have to do my work to my best (as if I am aiming at the promotion). However, I am not to worry if I'm not promoted or rewarded. A sales person will have to be work towards results (reaching her revenue targets). Else, she may lose the job. But, she may not complain that her sales commission was insufficient :-). If she gets handsomely rewarded for her efforts, she is to humbly accept that as a prasAda from the lord. Best regards, Ramachandra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 Hari Om. One is able to perform anAsakta karma when one understands the law of karma. Actions are indeed performed with fruits as the goal, but fruits are dependent upon the law of karma and not necessarily our desires (for a particular fruit). Thus, if we do not get a particular result from our actions, we can review our actions and see if we made any mistakes along the way. For example, we study hard for an exam but still do badly. This could be because we did not properly understand which topics were crucial. We might have studied those topics that were less relevant. We would realize this when we review our actions. The law of karma is independent of the doer. Thus, results of our actions can be attributed to the law of karma rather than us as doers. Any person performing similar actions in similar circumstances would get similar results - so what's special about our doing those actions? For example, anyone who knows which topics are relevant and studies them well is bound to do well on the exam. What then is so special about our doing that? One must be able to give up the fruit of karma to be truly anAsakta. This is possible only when one is performing swadharma rather than paradharma. What comes naturally to us must be performed as a matter of duty without being attached to the consequences. Some tasks would be pleasant (for example, in the case of Arjuna, earning glory and power after winning the MahAbhArata war) and some tasks would be unpleasant (such as punishing even cousins when they follow the path of adharma). A truly anAsakta, sthitaprajna person performs both types of actions without attachment to their results. One might like to refer to Vinoba Bhave's Discourses on the Gita for an excellent explanation of swadharma and anAsakta karma. Hari Om. Vikram M Pattarkine, PhD "Gurukul" 106 Pepper Grass Drive, Columbia, Missouri 65203, USA Tel: 573-445-4683 (Home), 573-489-2246 (Mobile), 573-886-9734 ext 279 (Work) Email: Vikram_Pattarkine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 Namaste Brahmarpanam Brahmhavih-Ji ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dear friends, Please help me in my manana/chintan. After studying Gita a little bit, I seem to have lost interest in the traditional ambitions, goals of life.By that I mean things like what position I am occupying or how I should climb up the ladder in my company. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ First of all let me congratulate you on reaching this state of mental crisis, despondency and befuddlement- exactly where Arjuna was at the start of Chapter 2. I congratulate you because crisis like this puts one on the track of serious spiritual inquiry. Take the example of Vivekananda and the crisis that stuck him at his fathers death and then again at his sisters death or Mahatma Gandhi's crisis at his fathers death. Tolstoy experienced a similar spiritual crisis which he has recorded in detail in his "Confessions". You say that you have lost interest in traditional worldly ambitions after studying Gita and wonder if it is detachment or laziness . Sir,the ego is a very clever and shrewd thing. It beguiles with very appealing and logical arguments aimed at keeping a person steeped in ignorance so that it remains supreme. Krishna had to stop Arjuna from pretending to talk like a learned man in BG 2.1-2.9. The path of The Gita is to first get a man back into action- finish all his duties and then achieve a state of inaction. This is clearly stated in 6.3. Sir you need to examine your own mental condition against to the clues and signs given in The Gita. Who is a man who is eligible to give up action - one who is totally steeped in Satva (14.6 and 12.15 to 12.18 describes the signs and attributes of such a person). On examining your own mental state due you find that you are firmly and constantly established in a state of happiness. Is your mind always radient and bright? Are you free from all delusion and ignorance? Are you free from all desires? Anger? all the pair of opposites?. Only one person in a million achieves that state says the Lord. Such a very rare person indeed can talk of detachment. Look at Vivekananda. He gave the seed of Indian Nationalism, founded the Ramakrishna Math in India and America, gave whirlwind lecture tours. Look at Gandhi,BG Tilak,Swami Chinmayananda, Sri Aurobindo who even adopted and advocated violence to achive Indian Independence. Now these are supposed to be detached people. Detached from what? From fruitive activities but marching to a divine tune. The story we get from these knowers of the message of Gita is that with a proper understanding of Gita your Work and Activities WILL ACTUALLY INCREASE and not decrease. This is because in the state of proper understanding of the Gita NO WORK PERTAINING TO ONES SWADHARMA WILL BE REJECTED. Whereas in the previous ignorant state one did some work because one found it pleasing and rejected others because one found them displeasing, in an enlightened state one does each and every duty which falls to one due to his station in life, equally, perfectly, without like or dislike in the freedom of the soul, dedicating the fruits to the Lord of all activities. A man in this will state is like a stream engine pulling others with him. He will do massive works and not feel the slighest mental or physical strain. Sri Aurobindos "Essays on the Gita" particularly " The Divine Worker" and on "Equality" are very illuminating. The Essays are available at : http://www.miraura.org/lit/sa/eog/eog-sel.html Extract from The Divine Worker http://www.miraura.org/lit/sa/eog/eg1-18.html Akarma, cessation from action is not the way; the man who has attained to the insight of the highest reason, perceives that such inaction is itself a constant action, a state subject to the workings of Nature and her qualities. The mind that takes refuge in physical inactivity, is still under the delusion that it and not Nature is the doer of works; it has mistaken inertia for liberation; it does not see that even in what seems absolute inertia greater than that of the stone or clod, Nature is at work, keeps unimpaired her hold. On the contrary in the full flood of action the soul is free from its works, is not the doer, not bound by what is done, and he who lives in the freedom of the soul, not in the bondage of the modes of Nature, alone has release from works. This is what the Gita clearly means when it says that he who in action can see inaction and can see action still continuing in cessation from works, is the man of true reason and discernment among men. This saying hinges upon the Sankhya distinction between Purusha and Prakriti, between the free inactive soul, eternally calm, pure and unmoved in the midst of works, and ever active Nature operative as much in inertia and cessation as in the overt turmoil of her visible hurry of labour. This is the knowledge which the highest effort of the discriminating reason, the buddhi, gives to us, and therefore whoever possesses it is the truly rational and discerning man, sa buddhiman manusyesu, -- not the perplexed thinker who judges life and works by the external, uncertain and impermanent distinctions of the lower reason. Therefore the liberated man is not afraid of action, he is a large and universal doer of all works, krtsnakarmakrt; not as others do them in subjection to Nature, but poised in the silent calm of the soul, tranquilly in Yoga with the Divine. The Divine is the lord of his works, he is only their channel through the instrumentality of his nature conscious of and subject to her Lord. By the flaming intensity and purity of this knowledge all his works are burned up as in a fire and his mind remains without any stain or disfiguring mark from them, calm, silent, unperturbed, white and clean and pure. To do all in this liberating knowledge, without the personal egoism of the doer, is the first sign of the divine worker. .....Outwardly the liberated man seems to undertake works of all kinds like other men, on a larger scale perhaps with a more powerful will and driving-force, for the might of the divine will works in his active nature; but from all his inceptions and undertakings the inferior concept and nether will of desire is entirely banished, sarve samarambhah kamasamkalpavarjitah. He has abandoned all attachment to the fruits of his works, and where one does not work for the fruit, but solely as an impersonal instrument of the Master of works, desire can find no place, -- not even the desire to serve successfully, for the fruit is the Lord's and determined by him and not by the personal will and effort, or to serve with credit and to the Master's satisfaction, for the real doer is the Lord himself and all glory belongs to a form of his Shakti missioned in the nature and not to the limited human personality. .....The liberated man has no personal hopes; he does not seize on things as his personal possessions; he receives what the divine Will brings him, covets nothing, is jealous of none: what comes to him he takes without repulsion and without attachment; what goes from him he allows to depart into the whirl of things without repining or grief or sense of loss. His heart and self are under perfect control; they are free from reaction and passion, they make no turbulent response to the touches of outward things. ....The result of this knowledge, this desirelessness and this impersonality is a perfect equality in the soul and the nature. Equality is the fourth sign of the divine worker. He has, says the Gita, passed beyond the dualities; he is dvandvatita. We have seen that he regards with equal eyes, without any disturbance of feeling, failure and success, victory and defeat; but not only these, all dualities are in him surpassed and reconciled. The outward distinctions by which men determine their psychological attitude towards the happenings of the world, have for him only a subordinate and instrumental meaning. He does not ignore them, but he is above them. Good happening and evil happening, so all-important to the human soul subject to desire, are to the desireless divine soul equally welcome since by their mingled strand are worked out the developing forms of the eternal good. Hope this helps Warm Regards Hersh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 Sri Brahmarpanam Brahmhavih wrote: > After studying Gita a > little bit, I seem to have lost interest in the traditional ambitions, goals > of life. By that I mean things like what position I am occupying or how I > should climb up the ladder in my company. However, I wonder if this is > laziness, or detachment or simply the fact that in the core of my heart I > know that I am mediocre and will not progress much. In terms of life styles, gItAchArya gives us two choices. --- Life style of a karmayogi, where one performs all the karmas with an attitude of IshvarArpana buddhi & prasAda buddhi. The goals for a karma yogi are dharma, artha and kAma. --- Life style of a sannyAsI where one gives up all kAmya karmas etc. and becomes a non-competitor in society. The goal for a sannyAsI is moksha. While both the life styles are considered equally valid by the gItAchArya, the mixing of the two is not. Detachment and dispassion that you are talking about comes after puNyas of several janmas and it is only appropriate that one gives it a formal shape by taking up sannyAsa. That way you truly become a non-competitor in society. However, this choice is not available to a karma yogi. If due to any reasons whatsoever, you are not in a position to take up sannyAsa at this stage, you remain obligated to all the duties of a karma yogi. A gruhasthAshramI trying to follow the life style of a sannyAsI will be as misplaced as a sannyAsI trying to follow the life style of a gruhasthAshramI. praNAm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anasakta Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Hi friend, You ask a good question, indeed it is the very question that Arjuna asked Lord Krishna. "Why should I fight?" The answer to you is the same answer that Lord Krishna gave to Arjuna as he pondered the forthcoming battle. "Your duty is to fight." In your case you are a person who is actively engaged in life. It is therefore your duty to do your best at all times and to work so as to progress in your career. Lord Krishna derided Arjuna over the confusion he would sow in society if he, a warrior, would not do his duty. You are a religious seeker, which is to be lauded. But you would sow confusion about the spiritual life if others saw you as a lazy do-nothing. I urge you to listen to Lord Krishna and fight! Warm regards, Anasakta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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