Nididhyasan Told By Saint Jana Bai

[Guest guest]

Namaskar:

 

It is good to know about Janabai a great devotee like Meerabai and

Andal on Diwali Day. According to the historical facts, Saint

Janabai, Saint Jnanadev and Saint Namdev lived durint the 13th

Century. Janabai's poems are simple but at the same time they

demonstrated her true unconditional devotion to the Lord.

 

I do not know Marathi but my intuition tells me that the translation

provided by Sri Anil may not fully reflect the views of Janabai.

Simple looking poems are most likely contain deep meaning and the

explanations provided by Sri Anil. I request someone who knows

Marathi to provide a better translation that brings the

implied 'Vedantic message.'

 

I would prefer the replacement of the word 'Consciouness' below

either by the word 'ego' or 'desire.' As long as we retain 'desire

(ego)' we are bounded by the cycle of 'birth and death.' and the only

way to get liberation is through roasting the desires (ego). The word

desires can also be replaced by 'vasanas.' Still I believe that the

analogy of eating the essence of mango and throwing out the 'seed'

and 'skin' needs further explanation. May I request someone

knowledgeable in Marathi to clear my doubts?

 

Harih Om!

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, Anil Bharatey <selfanil> wrote:

>

> Namaskar,

>

> Explanation : This body is perishable and it is surely to be

> dropped by everybody sooner or the later. If we think deeply we

> understand that this body is not at all helpful to us, may be

> it is helpful to itself. We chew and consume the juice of mango,

> then throw away the seed and the cover skin. The seed creates one

> more tree after sometime. Maya (body) is like the cover of mango,

one must give up thinking about body. Bija (seed) is the

consciousness, (Aham Bhava), that must be preserved. The

consciousness should be then roasted and should be offered to Guru or

the saint. (The roasted seed can't germinate, so the

abandoned/controlled consciousness can't see the illusionary world

again). One should completely surrender to the feet of the saints,

and should not hope again that the seed of consciousness shall

germinate again. (One should give up worldly desires completely)

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste ramchandran-Ji:

 

Thank you Anil-Ji for sharing this wonderful gem with the group.

 

You are absolutely correct in pointing out the correct us of word

EGO rather than 'Consciouness'. But I think janabai was trying to

use that word as an individual jivaatmaa (as an identity). IMO when

that individual identity gets over expressed then it lead to EGO.

Just like when a healthy cell gets over expressed then it becomes a

cancerous cell.

 

Here is my attempt to translate janaabai's abhanga.

 

Saint janaabai used very simple words to express profound concepts.

I have tried to give a better transliteration so that all of us may

be able to visualize it in devnaagari.

 

shariira he jayaace, nashvara aaNi kaayece |

mhaNaala jari tyaace kaaya kaaja |

aambarase chokhilaa, bijasaale saanDilaa |

puDhe teNe ubhaavilaa dujaa eka |

samuuLa saala maayaa, shodhuniyaa dije |

paari ahama bija jatana karaa |

te bija bhaajoni, karaa ovaaLunii |

santaa.nce caraNi samuuLa deha |

puDhe tyaa biijaa.nci na karaavi durushaa |

na dharaavi aashaa puDhiilaa.nci |

aahe naahi deha dhari aisaa bhaava |

mhaNe jani deva sahaja hoshi ||

 

Menaing:

This body is perishable and it is surely to be dropped by everybody

sooner or the later.

 

One may say what is it's use?

 

We chew and consume the juice of mango and then throw away the seed

including the skin.

 

The seed creates a duplicate tree in its place. (punarjanma –

rebirth).

 

Maya (body) is like the cover of mango, one must give up thinking

about body. Because the outer shell has no bearing even on the

regeneration of that mango)

 

Bija (seed) is identity (Aham Bhava) must be preserved. (The genetic

template for regeneration is embedded into it. Reason: If one

looses the identity then nothing can be done, as far as regeneration

is concerned. Thus at least preserve the identity.)

 

EGO, the over expression of identity, should then be roasted and

should be offered to Guru or the saint. (The roasted seed can not

germinate again). Here she is recommending the use of

catalyst, "GURU and/or SAINT" to help us achieve this. Reason being

we want to avoid meaningless, academic regeneration of the species.

 

This reminds me of a statement using the exact same analogy from

mahaabharat:

 

bijaanyagnyupadagdhaani na rohahanti yathaa punaH |

j~naanadagdhaistathaa kleshairnaatmaa saMpadyate punaH || M.B. vana.

199.106, 107; shaanti 211.17 ||

 

Menaing – Just like the raosted seed does not germinate again,

similarly, roasting or rather oblation the karma (klesha) in the

fire of knowledge (j~nana), then the aatmaa (the soul) does not

suffer through the same troubles (janma-karma-klesha) again.

 

We all know bhagavaana kR^iShNa tell us as similar message :

J~nnaagni sarvakarmaaNI bhasmasaata kurute.arjuna || giitaa 4.37 ||

 

Kshiyante caasya karmaaNi sasmina dR^iShTe paraavare || mu. 2.2.8 ||

 

Finally - j~nnaatvaa devamuccate sarva pashaiH || shvetaashvatara

upa. 6.13 ||

 

One should completely surrender to the feet of the saints, and with

the hope

that the seed does germinate again (just in an academic form of

futility).

 

Anil-ji translates this "One should give up worldly desires

completely." I do not agree with this. If there is no desire then

nothing can happen. Even to go near the Guru to get the knowledge

one must have that desire to get that knowledge for liberation. But

before this can happen one must be in a position to be able to

define what he is trying to achieve.

 

I think janabai and other saints wanted us to live better with a

full purpose and complete knowledge of our own identity through

realization.

 

Thus living in this world with firm realization of self identity

will help you become

God (devattva) yourself.

 

Just some thoughts from my limited understanding.

 

Warm regards,

 

hariH OM tat sat !

 

Dr. Yadu

 

 

advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <ramvchandran>

wrote:

>

> I do not know Marathi but my intuition tells me that the

translation

> provided by Sri Anil may not fully reflect the views of Janabai.

> Simple looking poems are most likely contain deep meaning and the

> explanations provided by Sri Anil. I request someone who knows

> Marathi to provide a better translation that brings the

> implied 'Vedantic message.'

>

> I would prefer the replacement of the word 'Consciouness' below

> either by the word 'ego' or 'desire.' As long as we retain 'desire

> (ego)' we are bounded by the cycle of 'birth and death.' and the

only

> way to get liberation is through roasting the desires (ego). The

word

> desires can also be replaced by 'vasanas.' Still I believe that

the

> analogy of eating the essence of mango and throwing out the 'seed'

> and 'skin' needs further explanation. May I request someone

> knowledgeable in Marathi to clear my doubts?

>

> Harih Om!

>

> Ram Chandran

>

> advaitin, Anil Bharatey <selfanil>

wrote:

> >

[Guest guest]

Jai Jai Ram Krishna Hari

 

Giving here "Translation from Marathi" (as I understand) -

 

shariira he jayaace, nashvara aaNi kaayece

mhaNaala jari tyaace kaaya kaaja (1)

aambarase chokhilaa, bijasaale saanDilaa

puDhe teNe ubhaavilaa dujaa eka (2)

samuuLa saala maayaa, shodhuniyaa dije

paari ahama bija jatana karaa (3)

te bija bhaajoni, karaa ovaaLunii

santaa.nce caraNi samuuLa deha (4)

puDhe tyaa biijaa.nci na karaavi durushaa

na dharaavi aashaa puDhiilaa.nci (5)

aahe naahi deha dhari aisaa bhaava

mhaNe jani deva sahaja hoshi (6)

 

Word Meaning:

 

(1) shariira = body, he = this, jayaace = will go (drop), nashvara =

perishable, aaNi = And, kaayece = of body, mhaNaala = you ask, jari

= if, tyaace = of it, kaaya = what, kaaja = use

 

(2) aambarase = mango pulp, chokhilaa = sucked, bijasaale = seed and

skin, saanDilaa = thrown , puDhe = ahead, teNe = it, ubhaavilaa =

raised, dujaa = second(another) eka = one

 

(3) samuuLa = from the root, saala = skin, maayaa = Maya,

shodhuniyaa = search (search for even the trace of it) dije = give

(give up), paari = but, ahama bija = Ego-Seed , jatana karaa =

preserve.

 

(4) te = That, bija = seed, bhaajoni = roast, karaa ovaaLunii = to

move lamps in a circular motion before Gods/ people (like aarti)

[There is a phrase in Marathi "Jiva Ovalun takne" which means so

much love that one is ready to do any sacrifice or give up oneself

completely ],

santaa.nce caraNi = at the feet of Saints, samuuLa deha = body from

its roots (your whole-self)

 

(5) puDhe = after this, tyaa biijaanci = of those seeds, na karaavi

= don't do, durushaa = hope for something that is not there, na

dharaavi = don't hold on to, aashaa puDhiilaa.nci = hope of future

 

(6) "aahe naahi deha" = body is there or not [ in Marathi the

expression "ahe nahi" is used for something that is hard to tell

whether it is there or not e.g. while cooking if one wants to put

just a hint of some spice it is said "ahe nahi asa ghal" ], dhari

aisaa = behond this, bhaava = bhaava (same as in Sankrit), mhaNe =

Says, jani = Jana bai, deva = God, sahaja = very easily or

effortlessly, hoshi = you will be

 

 

Meaning As-IS:

 

Body will drop one day, it is perishable and if you ask "What

purpose is this body for, its like "Mangojuice sucked and seed-skin

thrown" ?" but it raises another one ! So search and give up this

skin of Maya from its root, but preserve the ego-seed. Then you

roast that ego-seed and sacrifice your everything completely at the

feet of Saints (complete surrender). After you do this, don't have

any hope of sprouting of these ego-seeds that are not there and also

don't hold on to hope for the future ego-seeds to sprout. Stay in

this bhava that body is there or not (minimal awareness of body like

it is hard to tell if its there or not there). Jani says if you do

this you will become god effortlessly.

> advaitin, "Ram Chandran"

<ramvchandran>

> wrote:

> >

> > I do not know Marathi but my intuition tells me that the

> translation

> > provided by Sri Anil may not fully reflect the views of Janabai.

> > Simple looking poems are most likely contain deep meaning and

the

> > explanations provided by Sri Anil. I request someone who knows

> > Marathi to provide a better translation that brings the

> > implied 'Vedantic message.'

[Guest guest]

Respected Shri Ramchandraji,

 

Making an attempt to give my understanding of implied meaning:

 

I think Janabai is pointing out the use of this body as a vehicle

for attaining godhood.

 

Body is perishable. Once the juice of life is sucked from it, the

seed (subtle body) and skin ( gross body) falls. Then one may wonder

what is the use of this body that becomes a reason for taking many

births.

 

Janabai says it is to be used like this - first the "skin of maya is

to be searched from its root and given up but ego-seed has to be

preserved" this means by doing Nityanitya vastu viveka everything

that is anitya (mainly our attachments to various sense objects) has

to be given up first and then one should focus on "I" thought.

Because, first the "I" thought arises and then only all other

thoughts "I see this and that", "I do this and that", "I enjoy this

and that" arise. [in these lines she is focusing on giving up notion

of Jagat ]

 

Thereafter she asks to "Roast that ego-seed". Continuous

reflection and awareness of understanding that "I thought arises due

to identification with Anatma (here the focus is not on sense

objects but more on identifications that are the cause of Ego) e.g.

I am jiva, I am man/woman, I am seeker/saint/ignorant I am

mother/father etc." accompanied by complete surrender at the feet of

Saints removes this notion of individuality from its root. [in these

lines she is focusing on giving up notion of Jivahood]

 

After this she says "Give up durasha for these ego-seeds" and "Don't

hold on to asha of future/past ego-seeds". That means do not let

mind engage in idle fantacies for future and identifications

(upadhis) of past that never really existed. Another meaning is to

understand that once ego-seed is roasted all Prarabdha, Kriyaman and

Sanchit gets over and nothing can be sprouted from it. [in these

lines she is asking one to get established firmly in this

unerstanding.]

 

Then she asks one to stay in this bhava of minimum awareness of body

and assures that one will attain godhood effortlessly by this.

Substratum of "I" thought is Atma, so once this "I" thought drops

Godhood will remain. So, what Janabai says makes sense. Hope I learn

to use vehicle of this body to attain godhood like Janabai

instructed. My Salutations to Saint Janabai.

 

Padma

 

advaitin, "pjoshi99" <pjoshi99> wrote:

>

> Jai Jai Ram Krishna Hari

>

> Giving here "Translation from Marathi" (as I understand) -

> > advaitin, "Ram Chandran"

> <ramvchandran>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > I do not know Marathi but my intuition tells me that the

> > translation

> > > provided by Sri Anil may not fully reflect the views of

Janabai.

> > > Simple looking poems are most likely contain deep meaning and

> the

> > > explanations provided by Sri Anil. I request someone who

knows

> > > Marathi to provide a better translation that brings the

> > > implied 'Vedantic message.'

>