Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 OM TAT SAT As per the Gita and Kenopanishad, without the chaitanya roop Atman, the 5 material senses and mind cannot function. The mystery to me is how does the mind get all sorts of rotten thoughts and evil thoughts in the presence of infinite purity of consciousness. Is purity considered an attribute of Consciousness or not ? We bring samskar to explain this and talk about vasanas etc and we call it AnAdi. Maybe it is also called anirvachaniya, I am not sure. I am sure some will say that it is real only for the one who is asking the question and there is neither bondage nor liberation. Any other ideas/thoughts ? OM TAT SAT Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Namaste Sri Mahadeva-ji, advaitin, Brahmarpanam Brahmhavih <mahadevadvaita> wrote: > The mystery to me is how does the mind get all sorts of rotten > thoughts and evil thoughts in the presence of infinite purity > of consciousness. Rotten thoughts and evil thoughts don't exist in the PRESENCE of Pure Consciousness. They exist in the shadow where avidya has made Consciousness an ABSENCE instead of a PRESENCE. Evil thoughts dwell in the darkness of the shadow. In the PRESENCE of Consciousness, there is only LIGHT and everything is transmuted into PURE LIGHT which is the TRUTH. Therefore, in TRUTH there is no evil. Warm reards, Chittaranjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 advaitin, Brahmarpanam Brahmhavih <mahadevadvaita> wrote: > > OM TAT SAT > As per the Gita and Kenopanishad, without the chaitanya roop Atman, the > 5 material senses and mind cannot function. The mystery to me is how > does the mind get all sorts of rotten thoughts and evil thoughts in the > presence of infinite purity of consciousness. ------ VK: I may now use a number of analogies. Please don't take the analogies too far. 1.Consciousness is like Light. In the presence of Light there can be both dirty stuff as well as clean stuff. 2.The mind is like a mirror. If the mirror is dirty even if you reflect a pure linen in it it will show only a dirty linen. 3.The mind works because you have a consciousness behind it. But this consciousness is itself a tiny reflection of the Infinite Consciousness. This reflected consciousness can be vibrating just as the Sun reflected in running water is vibrating. But the Infinite Consciousness of which it is only a reflection neither vibrates nor moves. 4. The mind in the dream state behaves erratically. Vedanta says that the mind, even in its waking state behaves erratically. But we don't know it because we have identified ourselves with our (body), mind (and intellect). In the dream state there is only the mind and all the thoughts of the mind are not even understood as thoughts but they are understood by us as experience. To that extent we have identified ourselves with mind, in that dream state. In the waking state we know there is a mind for us, but our identification with the mind is so subtle, that we do not acknowledge our identification with the mind; but at the same time we are able to see that the mind has thoughts, and we are able to objectively say that the thoughts are dirty. We are also, in this waking state, able to distinguish between thoughts and actual experience. -------- >Is purity considered an > attribute of Consciousness or not ? VK: Purity is not an attribute of Consciousness. Purity is Consciousness. It is Consciousness pure and simple. There are no attributes of Consciousness. ---------- >We bring samskar to explain this > and talk about vasanas etc and we call it AnAdi. Maybe it is also > called anirvachaniya, I am not sure. I am sure some will say that it is > real only for the one who is asking the question and there is neither > bondage nor liberation. VK: You have the answers already! ----------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 Namaste Sri Prof VK-ji, advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote: > In the waking state we know there is a mind for us, but our > identification with the mind is so subtle, that we do not > acknowledge our identification with the mind; but at the same > time we are able to see that the mind has thoughts, and we > are able to objectively say that the thoughts are dirty. I recall having read in one of the Paramacharya's discourses that there was a time in a distant age when the devas, rakshasas and asuras could be seen outside of the mind. The Paramacharya says that in the present age our identification with them has become so strong that these devas, rakshasas and asuras are now inside us (inside the minds we are identified with). Sri Shankaracharya also says somewhere (I can't now recall where) that the wars between the devas and asuras are to be understood as the conflicts between good and bad thoughts in the mind. Warm regards, Chittaranjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 --- Chittaranjan Naik <chittaranjan_naik wrote: > Namaste Sri Prof VK-ji, > > advaitin, "V. Krishnamurthy" > <profvk> wrote: > > > In the waking state we know there is a mind for > us, but our > > identification with the mind is so subtle, that we > do not > > acknowledge our identification with the mind; but > at the same > > time we are able to see that the mind has > thoughts, and we > > are able to objectively say that the thoughts are > dirty. > > I recall having read in one of the Paramacharya's > discourses that there > was a time in a distant age when the devas, > rakshasas and asuras could > be seen outside of the mind. The Paramacharya says > that in the present > age our identification with them has become so > strong that these devas, > rakshasas and asuras are now inside us (inside the > minds we are > identified with). Sri Shankaracharya also says > somewhere (I can't now > recall where) that the wars between the devas and > asuras are to be > understood as the conflicts between good and bad > thoughts in the mind. > > Warm regards, > Chittaranjan > > > Dear Chittaranjanji, First of all, apropos your averment, " In the waking state we know there is a mind for > us, but our > > identification with the mind is so subtle, that we > do not > > acknowledge our identification with the mind; but > at the same > > time we are able to see that the mind has > thoughts, and we > > are able to objectively say that the thoughts are > dirty", are we really able to know that we are functioning through an identification with the mind? Our so-called objective evaluation of something being dirty, is itseflf a naming process. We are not aware of the process of thought, but are interpreting them through our psychological conditioning, which the tradition calls vasanas. Our waking state itself is a major vasana; perhaps we are not awake, our wakefulness being only physical, while metaphysically we are very much asleep. Our ancestors having been in a position to look at the process of thought objectively, is merely a conjecture, since all time is only the Now. We are the products of the unfinished memories of the past devas or asuras, whose purity or impurity has no relevance to our life. Perhaps, true wakefulness demands total dying to the meomries of the past in a psychological sense. An action of psychological felo-de-se, may be demanded of us. with regards, Sankarraman > > > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 --- "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk wrote: > VK: I may now use a number of analogies. Please don't take the > analogies too far. > OM TAT SAT Dear ProfVK, I accept your analogies. However, in nature we also see that, there is heat near fire, wetness in water, things get blown away in wind and Jeevas come to life in the presence of consciousness. That same consciousness (ananda swaroop avinashi tattva) is also boundless bliss. Then why only the consciousness aspect is expressed but not the ananda aspect. kind regards, OM TAT SAT FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 advaitin, Brahmarpanam Brahmhavih <mahadevadvaita> wrote: > > --- "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk> wrote: > > VK: I may now use a number of analogies. Please don't take the > > analogies too far. > > > > OM TAT SAT > Dear ProfVK, I accept your analogies. However, in nature we also see that, > there is heat near fire, wetness in water, things get blown away in wind and > Jeevas come to life in the presence of consciousness. That same consciousness > (ananda swaroop avinashi tattva) is also boundless bliss. Then why only the > consciousness aspect is expressed but not the ananda aspect. > kind regards, > OM TAT SAT > Namaste, Mahadevji Wonderful question. In fact, it is THE question!. That 'I am' is never denied and is always understood. That 'I am conscious' is also never denied and is always understood. But that 'I am Ananda- svarupa' is the thing that is difficult to understand and is even denied very often. Why? That is your question. The only answer is that it is the work of 'MAyA'. MAyA never clouds the fact that 'I am' or 'I am Conscious'. It only clouds the truth of the AnandaSvarupa that the real 'we' are. That is why one has got to analyse the common statement 'I slept happily'. The first two words in this statement are never questioned. But it is the third word 'happily' in the statement that has to be deeply thought about and it is for this that we go through Vedanta and particularly, advaita. PraNAms to all advaitins profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 --- "V. Krishnamurthy" <profvk wrote: > Wonderful question. In fact, it is THE question!. OM TAT SAT Sir, Thank you for responding, I need to contemplate more. The wonderful question really is asked in Dr. Sadananda's Brahmsutra bhashya notes. Here is an extract from it : "The aatmaa is partially known as 'aham asmi', that is 'I exist'. Whenever a person says 'I am' - the sat (am) and chit (I) of aatmaa is evident but not fully known as 'aham brahma asmi' or 'aham aanandaH asmi', I am the totality or I am bliss. Thus sat and chit are known but anantatvam, my infinite nature is not known; 'aham aanandaH', I am bliss, is not known. What is the proof for this? -Everybody's bio-data speaks for itself in proof of this. Everyone introduces himself as ' I am this or that' etc., where 'I am', the subject corresponding to sat and chit, and 'this and that' being an object with a limited qualification - apuurNatva - proving that one is ignorant of oneself. Because of the existence of this self-ignorance only Upanishads are coming to our rescue to teach us our true nature. In Chandogya Upanishad there is a statement, 'aatmavit shokam tarati' - 'the knower of the self crosses the sorrow' - From these it is very clear that a sa.nsaarii, who is always engulfed in sorrow, does not have self-knowledge. Hence self-ignorance is there." OM TAT SAT Start your day with - Make it your home page! http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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