Seeing, Seeing, Seeing

[Guest guest]

' WEI WEU WEI ' writes: " What is the use of looking outside? All you will see

is objects! Shall I then see subject instead? If you did you would be looking

at an object. An object is such in whatever direction you look. Shall I not

see myself? You cannot see what is not there! What, then, I shall see ?

Perhaps, you may see the absence of yourself, which is what is looking. It has

been called "the void" Every time you see an object you are beholding the

subject of that object in its objective manifestation. Every object is a mirror

which reflects what is looking.

If you have the basic understanding that the primal

Buddha-nature is that of all sentient beings, it follows that anyone who thinks

that any action can lead to his "enlightenment" is turning his back on the

truth: he is thinking that there is a " he" to be, "enlightened," whereas "

enlightenment", is a name for the state wherein there is no separate individual

at all, and which is that of all sentient beings, a name for what they are, but

which cannot be recognised by anyone who believes himself to be an autonomous

individual. That is why the action of non-action, the practice of non-practice,

unmotivated, non-volitional functioning, can lead to that recognition or

awakening, and why any kind of action, practice or intentional procedure is an

insurmountable barrier to such awakening. The error depends on the rooted

superstition of the existence as such of an individual being. This may be more

obvious if you could say that no phenomenon could be

enlightened, since enlightenment is not phenomenal: it is just noumenon. That

which is not phenomenal in a sentient being, described above as the, "primal

Buddha-nature", needs no, "enlightenment"- that is what precisely it is."

 

Sankarraman

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Sankarramanji.

 

I can't but mostly agree with WEI WEU WEI.

 

I accept his point of view not because I have read his teachings but

because I have learnt Advaita. Thanks therefore to Advaita.

 

The sense of being an autonomous individual should go and the right

prescription is 'non-action in action'. But, let me ask you, has Wei

Weu Wei or the lineage preceding him explained this 'non-action'

anywhere elaborately. I could appreciate it because I have read

SrImad Bhagwad GItA. Is there such detailed methodology (again by

the word methodology I mean the systematic development and derivation

of knowledge and not a set of practices or methods) as found in BG

available anywhere in Wei Weu Wei's teachings? You seem to be very

well-read. I would therefore appreciate a helpful pointer from your

side. That would not only help me but also make your quotes in this

List purposeful. Needless to recall, one of this Group's goals is to

relate other teachings to Advaita.

 

The truth is that there are neither a subject nor objects. There is

only 'enlightenment' and that is you. Although, Wei Weu Wei has

called it 'void', I would like to be very cautious about that word

because it generates unnecessary confusion as it has through

centuries. Let us therefore settle for 'enlightenment' bearing in

mind that there is no one there to be enlightened. There is only

LIGHT.

 

Besides, I have my own doubts about if this understanding can take

root without some deliberate practice. I would, however, like to see

such practice called 'non-action' because it stems from one's

understanding of total freedom and doesn't bind like our other

actions. I may need to be corrected here.

 

PraNAms and thanks.

 

Madathil Nair

_________________

 

advaitin, Ganesan Sankarraman <shnkaran>

wrote:

>

> ' WEI WEU WEI ' writes: .... It has been called "the void" Every

time you see an object you are beholding the subject of that object

in its objective manifestation. Every object is a mirror which

reflects what is looking.

>....That is why the action of non-action, the practice of non-

practice, unmotivated, non-volitional functioning, can lead to that

recognition or awakening, and why any kind of action, practice or

intentional procedure is an insurmountable barrier to such

awakening. The error depends on the rooted superstition of the

existence as such of an individual being. This may be more obvious

if you could say that no phenomenon could be

> enlightened, since enlightenment is not phenomenal: it is just

noumenon. That which is not phenomenal in a sentient being,

described above as the, "primal Buddha-nature", needs

no, "enlightenment"- that is what precisely it is."

>

[Guest guest]

Sri Nairji writes:

 

( Needless to recall, one of this Group's goals is to

relate other teachings to Advaita.)

 

What a heartwarming thing to say!

 

It is so great to hear this specially from one of the list

moderators ! After all the goal of spirituality is to see

the 'sameness' and 'oneness' in all the paths and then the seeker

can FINALLY choose the path that best suits his temperament!

 

Adwaita may be a term used by Hindus but it is not a 'monopoly' of

hindus ! Sufi Poets like Rumi and Kabir are as 'adwaitic' as one can

get! Sure, they did not write commentaries on Srimad Bhagwat gita ,

Upanishads etc but they composed many soulful poems from their

OWN 'Atmanubhava' ! ( DIRECT PERSONAL EXPERIENCE)! What is 'adwaita'

but realization of the self by the non-self?

 

may i quote a Doha ( a couplet of two lines) From Sufi Bhakta -Jnani

KABIR ?

 

Ek Kahun To Hai Nahin, Do Kahun To Gaari

Hai Jaisa Taisa Rahe, Kahe Kabir Bichari

 

 

If I say one, It is not

If I say two, it will be a violation

Let 'It' be what 'It' is

says Kabir upon contemplation

 

Explanation

This Doha is an illustration of Kabir mysticism that parallels the

Zen Koans.

 

Kabir here is alluding to the futility of describing the cosmic

experience. In that vein, he underscores the limited vision of both

the Advaitic (one God) and Dvaitic (God is separate from the devotee)

schools of thought. He says that the final experience is what it is

and cannot be cast into any thought, words or description. A first-

hand direct experience is the only way of knowing. And when that

happens all else becomes literally irrelevant.

 

(www.boloji.com)

 

Although you addressed your query to sri Sankaramanji , i take the

liberty of answering your query - pardon me for this !

Sankararamanji , please allow me this 'intrusion' ! SMILE! ( BTW ,

SRI SANKARARAMANJI - You indeed are a voracious reader and

a 'colorful'( Rainbow) contributor)

 

About two years ago, we had a discussion on several traditions in my

group 'Brahmanshakti' and members wrote on several religious

traditions from Taoism, Zen BUDDHISM, SUFISM, PAGANISM, TANTRISM AND

OF COURSE HINDUISM.

 

It was then that i came across these beautiful verses from this great

philosopher Wei Wu WEI ! ( WHAT AN AMAZing name! ) Yes AN ENGLISHMAN

WITH THIS SWEET SOUNDING MYSTERIOUS EASTERN MYSTIC NAME MAY BE OF

CHINESE ORIGIN!

 

Nair-ji Read these two and the 'Poet' in you will relate to

their 'adwaitic' contents !

 

Wei wu Wei writes :

 

I move... Space becomes ( as the result of my movement),

Time is born (as a result of my movement in space),

I have objects (because I have become the subject of space and time),

Dualism is established,

The Universe appears,

I identify myself with my objects (and there are illusionary egos),

I suffer illusorily (and suffering becomes universal).

 

NEXT ,

 

I repose

Space vanishes (for I have ceased to move),

Time ceases (for there is no movement to measure),

There are no objects (for I am no longer a subject),

Dualism is no more,

The universe disappears,

There are no illusory egos,

There is no suffering,

I am, but there is no 'me'.

 

( FROM WEI WU WEI'S book "All Else is Bondage" )

 

WEI WU WEI has written many books , TO NAME A FEW 1) : "Ask the

Awakened" - The Negative Way., 2) The Pathless Way"- "All Else is

Bondage" 3)- "Open Secret" ETC ETC

 

(http://www.plotinus.com/wei_wu_wei.htm

 

Nair-ji, please read these quotes by this great Thinker -philosopher

and you will definitly agree that it reminds you of 'ADWAITA'

 

"Why are you unhappy?

Because 99.9 percent

Of everything you do

Is for yourself -

And there isn't one."

 

"We do not possess an "ego."

We are possessed by the idea of one."

 

WHO IS WEI WU WEI ?

 

 

(Wei Wu Wei, born Terence Gray in 1895 into a well-established Irish

family, was raised on an estate outside Cambridge, England, and

studied at Oxford University.

It is apparent from his writings that Wei Wu Wei had studied in some

depth both Eastern and Western philosophy and metaphysics, as well as

the more esoteric teachings of all the great religions. It can also

be understood from the writings that he regarded himself as merely

one of many seeking so-called 'liberation', the works themselves

being seen in part, as a record of his quest. During that quest he is

known to have met many spiritual luminaries including the Bhagavan

Sri Ramana Maharshi, Lama Anagarika Govinda, Douglas Harding, Paul

Brunton, and Dr. D. T. Suzuki. More information can be found about

the life of Terence Gray in the newly published biography,

Only By Failure. )

 

Nairji, have you read The Tao of Physics, by Fritz Capra?

 

Fritz capra says :

 

"Modern physics has shown that the rhythm of creation and

destruction is not only manifest in the turn of the seasons and in

the birth and death of all living creatures, but is also the very

essence of inorganic matter," and that "For the modern physicists,

then, Shiva's dance is the dance of subatomic matter."

 

Hundreds of years ago, Indian artists created visual images of

dancing Shivas in a beautiful series of bronzes. In our time,

physicists have used the most advanced technology to portray the

patterns of the cosmic dance. The metaphor of the cosmic dance thus

unifies ancient mythology, religious art and modern physics"

 

 

love and blessings !

[Guest guest]

Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair wrote: Namaste

Sankarramanji.

 

I can't but mostly agree with WEI WEU WEI.

 

I accept his point of view not because I have read his teachings but

because I have learnt Advaita. Thanks therefore to Advaita.

 

The sense of being an autonomous individual should go and the right

prescription is 'non-action in action'. But, let me ask you, has Wei

Weu Wei or the lineage preceding him explained this 'non-action'

anywhere elaborately. I could appreciate it because I have read

SrImad Bhagwad GItA. Is there such detailed methodology (again by

the word methodology I mean the systematic development and derivation

of knowledge and not a set of practices or methods) as found in BG

available anywhere in Wei Weu Wei's teachings? Respected Sir,

Thank you for your response. I am not sure

whether I can substantiate the position of WEI WU WEI by quoting from the

scriptures which have influenced him. I am of opinion that his articulations

are traceable to the Diamond Sutra and Heart Sutra, the two Mahayana

scriptures, perhaps even to the Lankavata Sutra of the Yogachara Buddhistic

school. But, the author carrying this pseudonym, has been greatly influenced by

Bhaghavan Ramana also. When I go through some of the writings of Sri Balsekar,

I find that he has been greatly influenced by WEI WU WEI. As regards the word

void, there need be, I think, no confusion, since that terminology is meant to

disabuse our minds of the notion that enlightenment is an object. A great Tamil

saint by name Analytical has composed a work entitled, "Ozhivil Odukkam", which

translated into English, would mean withdrawl into emptiness. Every thing is a

way of convention. Buddhists of afraid of the atman; the

Advaitin is afraid of the void. Each has got his own predilection.

with warm regards,

Sankarraman

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Sri Sankararaman-ji

 

Thank you for mentioning the great work 'Ozhivil Odukkam' - i have

seen this being mentioned in sri ramana's web site also !

 

who is the Tamizh Author ? where can i find it on the web ?

 

Sri Narayana Guru ( THE GREAT SAINT FROM KERALA) has translated this

work into malayalam . but i do not know malayalam !

 

Sankaraji ! if i were you, i will not worry about 'labels'

 

the adwaitins are called 'mayavadins'

 

the tantricks are called 'leelavadins'

 

the buddhists are called 'shunyavadins'

 

then there are KALA-VADINS and Kshanika-Vijnana-vadins and now of

course we have a new set of vadins 'vithanda vadins' who want to

argue about everything about nothing ! A BIG SMILE!

 

i DONT THINK 'ADVAITINS' ARE AFRIAD OF 'ANYTHING' 'fear' does not

exist in the dictionary of a staunch advaitin ! IT MAY BE MORE

POLITICALLY CORRECT to SAY 'AN ADVAITIN MAY want to avoid the

term 'VOID'' or Nihilism !

 

as Swami Vivekananda says :

 

If there is one word that you find coming out like a bomb from the

Upanishads, bursting like a bomb-shell upon masses of ignorance, it

is the word fearlessness. And the only religion that ought to be

taught is the religion of fearlessness. (...) It is fear that brings

misery, fear that brings death, fear that breeds evil. And what

causes fear? Ignorance of our own nature.

 

As per UPANISHADIC TEXT

 

Tadvijnanena paripasyanti dhira

Anandarupam amritam yadvibhati

 

"The wise ones realize Him everywhere, inside as well as outside, Him

whose form is bliss and immortality and whose glory overflows as the

visible universe."

 

The word 'dhira ' MEANS ONE WHO HAS A combination of intelligence,

courage and perseverance.

 

SO, AN 'ADVAITIN' IS A DHIRA , NOT A VEERA- he is not here to win

verbal battles ... he is here to speak the 'Truth nothing but the

truth' BASED on the wisdom of SRIMAD BHAGVAT GITA !

 

AS per Srimad Bhagavad-Gita :

 

Swalpamapyasya dharmasya tryate mahto bhayat

 

"Even a little of this dharma will save us from great fear"

 

 

Was it Dante Alighieri who said

 

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of

great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.

 

This is the reason why i admire nairji and chitta for they always

speak up when the very 'fabric' of Adwaithic vedanta is threatened by

frivolous postings !

 

 

LOVE AND BLESSINGS

[Guest guest]

No, Sankararamanji. Advaitins are not afraid of the word 'void'.

They are only being accurate and precise in their expressions to the

best of their ability. It is not a matter of predilection.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

__________________

 

advaitin, Ganesan Sankarraman <shnkaran>

wrote:

As regards the word void, there need be, I think, no confusion, since

that terminology is meant to disabuse our minds of the notion that

enlightenment is an object. A great Tamil saint by name Analytical

has composed a work entitled, "Ozhivil Odukkam", which translated

into English, would mean withdrawl into emptiness. Every thing is a

way of convention. Buddhists of afraid of the atman; the

> Advaitin is afraid of the void. Each has got his own predilection.

[Guest guest]

oops! i forgot to add the url from which the following wise words

were taken

 

http://www.cat.cc.md.us/~nghosh/message.html

 

i apologize for that ! nothing 'original' all borrowed knowledsge

from other sources!

 

 

( as Swami Vivekananda says :

>

> If there is one word that you find coming out like a bomb from the

> Upanishads, bursting like a bomb-shell upon masses of ignorance, it

> is the word fearlessness. And the only religion that ought to be

> taught is the religion of fearlessness. (...) It is fear that

brings

> misery, fear that brings death, fear that breeds evil. And what

> causes fear? Ignorance of our own nature.

>

> As per UPANISHADIC TEXT

>

> Tadvijnanena paripasyanti dhira

> Anandarupam amritam yadvibhati

>

> "The wise ones realize Him everywhere, inside as well as outside,

Him

> whose form is bliss and immortality and whose glory overflows as

the

> visible universe."

>

> The word 'dhira ' MEANS ONE WHO HAS A combination of intelligence,

> courage and perseverance.

>

> !

>

> AS per Srimad Bhagavad-Gita :

>

> Swalpamapyasya dharmasya tryate mahto bhayat

>

> "Even a little of this dharma will save us from great fear" ))

>

>

[Guest guest]

Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair wrote: No,

Sankararamanji. Advaitins are not afraid of the word 'void'.

They are only being accurate and precise in their expressions to the

best of their ability. It is not a matter of predilection.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

__________________

 

advaitin, Ganesan Sankarraman <shnkaran>

wrote:

As regards the word void, there need be, I think, no confusion, since

that terminology is meant to disabuse our minds of the notion that

enlightenment is an object. A great Tamil saint by name Analytical

has composed a work entitled, "Ozhivil Odukkam", which translated

into English, would mean withdrawl into emptiness. Every thing is a

way of convention. Buddhists of afraid of the atman; the

> Advaitin is afraid of the void. Each has got his own predilection.

 

 

while referring to the work Ozhivil odukkam I made small mistake in the

language in conveying my thought. This is on account of my lack of speed in

typewriting which I learnt back only recently. So what happens is , while I

think some thing in the mind, I miss it when typing , writing something

irrelevant. Please, bear with me for this inadeqacy. Grammarians may please

excuse me.

sankarraman

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Y

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

adi_shakthi16 <adi_shakthi16 wrote: Sri Sankararaman-ji

 

Thank you for mentioning the great work 'Ozhivil Odukkam' - i have

seen this being mentioned in sri ramana's web site also !

 

who is the Tamizh Author ? where can i find it on the web ?

 

This is the reason why i admire nairji and chitta for they always

speak up when the very 'fabric' of Adwaithic vedanta is threatened by

frivolous postings !

 

 

LOVE AND BLESSINGS

 

 

Dear Adisaktiji,

Apropos your query, the author of this work is one

Kannudaladigal, which I referred to as Analytical, somehow having been

preoccupied with that word, I don't know why. Perhaps, J.K's coming down upon

heavily analysis as a way of understanding truth, has made this word to intrude

too much into my mind. Whom does the epithet,'frivolous postings', refer to I

don't know, neither is it my business. This Kannudaladigal was basically a

Siddhantin turned vedantin, who speaks the highest knowledge, being very

vitriolic in his attacks against all wisdom falling short of the highest state

of effortlessness, about which there is a lot of controversy, about the need

for effort; whether the term, "Effortlessness", goes to suggest the idea of

admitting of no efforts, which, I think is not; I am of opinion that when

teachers like J.K and Kannudaladigal speak of effortlessness, they demand the

highest effort of not allowing thought to escape into some intellectual

conclusions, but making it remain with, "What is", in the direct confrontation

of which fear gets dissipated, which is not a state of fearlessness about which

one can parade one's knowledge, the unreality of the knower having been

understood from a higher dimension.

Please go to the following website, where the entire text of,

"Ozivil Odukkam", with the commentary of, "Thirupporur Chidambara Swamigal", is

available. There is an introduction to this text by saint Ramalingar in a very

mind-boggling Tamil. I don't know whether any present day Tamilian can make any

sense out of it. But in those days Tamil prose used to be very tough. Please

don't belabour your brain by reading this introduction. I don't know as to how

saint Ramalingar came to be associated with this text, as his world views are

radically different from those of Vedanta and Siddhanta. But, in his formative

periods Ramalingar was greatly influenced by the Bakthi texts of Thevaram,

Thiruvachakam etc, which like K he discarded in the final period of life, when

he talked of, "Suddha Sanmarga". He incurred thereby the wrath of all

traditionalists who believed only in an one-way traffic. But, Ramalingar was

undaunted by all this till the end of his life.

You might find it very difficult and irksome to read the text,

"Ozhivil Odukkam", sitting before your system. Hence, you might buy a copy of

the text from, "Mullai Nilayam", the publishing house situated in 9, Bharathi

Nagar, First Street, T.Nagar, Chennai-600017. If you are not residing in

Chennai, you might ask the book-sellers whether they can send it by post. I am

not sure whether copies of recently printed edition, are still available, as

there are only very few takers for this item. Mr J.Jayaraman, the librarian of

Ramanashram Library, his been bringing out his English translation, the

translations having appeared in three issues of Mountainpath, now having

stopped. I don't know when they will resume it. Mr Jayaraman's work is too

scholarly to be understood; but he has done a brilliant work keeping with the

high thought of, "kannudaya Vallal".

 

Yours Ever in Bhaghavan Ramana

Sankarraman

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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