Bhakti and Jnana .............Wave .....2

December 5, 2005

OM Namo Narayana!

It is now Time to share some Sutras from Sage Narada's Bhakti

Sutras , the SUPREME DEVOTEE of Sriman Narayana !

1) Sa tvasmin parampremarupa.

Bhakti is in the nature of Perfect Love for the Divine.

2) Amrita swarupa cha.

It is 'Nectar' for it is 'eternal' and one who has tasted 'Bhakti'

gets the taste of Ultimate Bliss or parama ananda . It is

this 'immortality' that is experienced in Divine love . In DYING ,

one is forever Alive.

3. Yallabdhava pumana sidhho bhavati Amrito bhavati tripto bhavati.

Achieving this, one has reached the state of perfection, attains

immortality and all desires are completely fulfilled. .

4. Yat prapta na kinchid vanchhati, na shochati na dvesti, narmate,

notsahi bhavati.

Once this is attained, no desire remains for anything else, he is

freed from pleasure and pain, liking and dislikes , he does not crave

for anything else, he now no longer has any enthusiasm to fulfill any

other purpose.

6.Yat gyatva matto bhavati, Sthabhdho bhavati, atmaramo bhavati.

Once a person has drowned himself in the ocean of devotion, he

abandons everything and becomes an instrument of God . Such a person

may appear to be of unsound mind to the worldly people since he is no

longer bound by the societal norms or cannons of scriptures. Such a

God Intoxicated person sometimes sits quietly in a state of `Samadhi'

sometimes he is dancing or singing for no reason for example

Chaitnya Prabhu, , Mira, Sri Ramkrishna Paramhansa etc...

Narayana! Narayana!

Let us now see How Adi Shankara Bhagvada pada expresses his Devotion

to the god/ess in some of his many of his devotional compostions .

Bhagvadapada's Sivanananda Lahari ! ( the wave of divine bliss of

siva)

manaste paadaabje nivasatu vachaH stotraphaNitau

karau chaabhyarchaayaaM shrutirapi kathaakarNanavidhau |

tava dhyaane buddhirnayanayugalaM muurtivibhave

paragranthaan.h kairvaa paramashiva jaane paramataH || 7||

Translation

Let my mind dwell on your lotus feet, my speech in

effortless praise (of you), my hands in worshipping (you)

and my ears in the practice of hearing your tale. Let my

intellect meditate on you, and my eyes (dwell) on the

greatness of your image. Oh Paramasiva, by what other means,

beyond this, can I know other texts ?

There is a Similar verse in Adi Shankara Bhagvadapada's Soundarya

Lahari ( THE WAVE OF BEAUTY)

japo jalpaH shilpaM sakalamapi mudraaviracanaa

gatiH praadakShiNyakramaNamashanaadyaahutividhiH .

praNaamassaMveshassukhamakhilamaatmaarpaNadR^ishaa

saparyaaparyaayastava bhavatu yanme vilasitam.h .. 27..

Let my every word be a prayer to Thee,

Every movement of my hands a ritual gesture to Thee,

Every step I take a circumambulation of Thy image,

Every morsel I eat a rite of sacrifice to Thee,

Every time I lay down a prostration at Thy feet;

Every act of personal pleasure and all else that I do,

Let it all be a form of worshiping Thee."

In both these verses , Adi Shankara is expressing his Devotion in a

bhava of Total surrender to the God/ess.

Then In Siva Manasa Puja , Adi shankara Bhagvadapada even asks

for 'forgiveness' in a bhava of total humility :

Karacharana kritamvaakkaajam karmajamva,

Sravana nayanamjamva maanasamva aparaadham,

Vihitamahitamva sarvametat kshamasva,

Jaya jaya karunaabde Sri Maha Deva Sambho!"

"Ocean of Mercy! Forgive me all this fault-done and yet to be done,

committed by hands, feet or done vocally, physically and by actions

through the faculties of hearing, seeing and thinking (mentally).

Faults may also arise from not doing prescribed duties and by doing

prohibited actions."

Sri Lalita Saharanama describes one of Sri Lalita's names as

Bhakta manasa hamsika

The Devi who floats like a Hamsa in the mind's of the Bhakta which

is like a lake.

Let The nectar of devotion flow in the hearts of all devotees !

Yaa devi Sarva bhuteshu 'bhakti' rupens Samstitha ! Namastasyaii

namastasyaii om Namo Namosthuthe!

Salutations To 'Devi' who resides in all beings as pure 'devotion' !

to be continued..................

December 6, 2005

Namaste.

Thinking about jnana and bhakti, I wonder how they differ. I was

reminded of Subramania Bharati in this context. He sang:

'kAkkaicchirahinile nandalAla

ninthan kariya niRam thOnRuthaiye nanda lAla'

(In the black wings of the crow, I see your dark hue, nanda lAla)

and

'thIkkuL viralai vaitthAl nanda lAla

ninaitthINdum inbam thOnruthaiye nanda lAla'

(I feel the pleasure of your touch, nanda lAla when I touch a flame)

Again,

'thinna varum puli thanaiyum, chinthayiR pORRiduvai

annai parAshakti avvuruvAyinaL'

(Worship even the tiger that would eat you, for it is mother

paRashakti alone that has taken that form)

I cannot say if this is a bhakta or a jnani that is singing here.

Bharati is living the following lines from the Gita:

'yO mAm pashyati sarvatra sarvam ca mayi pashyati'

(one who sees me everywhere and sees everything in me.)(6:30)

'bahUnAm janmanAm antE jnAnavAn mAm prapadyate

'vAsudevah sarvamiti sa mahAtmA sudurlabhah'

(At the end of many births, the man of knowledge reaches me

realizing, "vAsudeva is all" Such a great soul is extremely rare.)

(7:19)

So bhakti and jnana - Ultimately, is there a difference between the

two?

Harih Om!

Neelakantan

December 7, 2005

Here is my understanding:

There are two yogas or means of evolution towards Moksha - one is karma

yoga and the other is jnaana yoga. There is no separate bhakti yoga.

Lokesmin dvividhaa nishTaa .. ... Jnaana yogena sankhyaanaam karma

yogena.

Karma yoga cannot give moksha since moksha is not apraaptasya praaptam -

that is gaining something that one does not intrinsically have it.

Beside action that is finite cannot give a result that is of infinite

nature. Karma yoga can purify the mind and a purified mind is the

instrument needed for jnaana. Hence, karma yoga gives chittasuddhi and

with that, one can gain knowledge.

Jnaana yoga leads to jnaana - the knowledge of reality.

Now where do Bhakti falls?

Bhakti is essential for both karma yoga and jnaana yoga. Karma yoga

involves Iswaraarpita buddhi and prasaada buddhi, which is possible only

one has bhakti towards Iswara.

Bhakti is essential for jnaana - that leads to ananya chinta or single

pointed inquiry of jnaana yoga. Here bhakti for Iswara turns into Bhakti

for the aatmavichaara - Hence Shankara says:

moksha kaaraNa saamaagryaam bhaktireva gariiyasi|

swaswaruua anusandhaanam bhaktiH ityabhidheeyate||

swaatma anubhava sandhaaanam bhaktiH ityapare jaguH||

Of all the paths, bhakti is the supreme for moksha and that bhakti is

called one's intense contemplation on one's own self or

self-realization.

Therefore, Bhakti is essential for jnaana as well as karma to transform

them into yoga.

Here is my understanding:

There are two yogas or means of evolution towards Moksha - one is karma

yoga and the other is jnaana yoga. There is no separate bhakti yoga.

KrishNa says: Lokesmin dvividhaa nishTaa .. ... Jnaana yogena

sankhyaanaam karma yogenam.

Karma yoga cannot give moksha since moksha is not apraaptasya praaptam -

that is gaining something that one does not intrinsically have it.

Beside action that is finite cannot give a result that is of infinite

nature. Karma yoga can purify the mind and a purified mind is the

instrument needed for jnaana. Hence, karma yoga gives chittasuddhi and

with that, one can gain knowledge.

Jnaana yoga leads to jnaana - the knowledge of reality.

Now where does Bhakti stand?

Bhakti is essential for both karma yoga and jnaana yoga. Karma yoga

involves Iswaraarpita buddhi and prasaada buddhi, which is possible only

one has bhakti towards Iswara.

Bhakti is essential for jnaana - that leads to ananya chinta or single

pointed inquiry in jnaana yoga. Here bhakti for Iswara turns into Bhakti

for the aatmavichaara - Hence Shankara says:

moksha kaaraNa saamaagryaam bhaktireva gariiyasi|

swaswaruupa anusandhaanam bhaktiH ityabhidheeyate||

swaatma anubhava sandhaaanam bhaktiH ityapare jaguH||

Of all the paths, bhakti is the supreme for moksha and that bhakti is

called one's intense contemplation on one's own self or

self-realization.

Therefore, Bhakti is essential for jnaana as well as karma to transform

them into yoga.

Hence, it is not bhakti vs jnaana since Jnaana involves bhakti - and it

is not bhakti vs karma either since karma also involves bhakti.

Bhakti for saguNa brahman is easier until one appreciates Brahman is

nirguNa or guNa atiita. Without proper understanding, bhakti can lead to

fanaticism. Jnaana without bhakti can lead to arrogance.

Bhakti is the platform required for all saadhana-s.

Hari OM!

Sadananda

--- Neelakantan <pneelaka wrote:

> Namaste.

>

> Thinking about jnana and bhakti, I wonder how they differ.

December 7, 2005

--- kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote:

Just as there are two branches (jnaana and karma) arising from the same

root, I found that my post has two copies of same thing merged into one!

That is how apparent duality arises!

Hari OM!

Sadananda

December 7, 2005

Sri Neelakantan-ji!

Wow! What a lovely quote from Tamizh National poet Bharatiyaar ! A

Lot of discussion is going on here in this list about Nationalism,

Patriotism etc .... so when i hear someone quota Tamizh verse my

heart leaps with joy ...

The following verse from Bharatiyaar comes to mind

' Senthamizh Naadeenum Pothineele , enba then vandu payuthu

kaathinele '

Whenever i hear a mention of My Motherland ( Senthamizh naadu refers

to Tamilnadu , part of India ) , these words are like Honey flowing

into my ears ! (( not a great translation! ) !

Subramanya Bharatiyaar (1882-1921) also says " She has thirty crores

of faces, but her heart is one; she speaks eighteen languages, yet

her mind is one "

Thanks for quoting those lines about Nandalala - Yes ! a God-

intoxicated person sees God in every creature in the universe ! Our

Neela megha shyamala varna who had the color ;pr of the Blue Rain

cloud was the daring of the vraja gopis too ! Gopi jana vallabha !

Yasodha Nandana ! !

Once a Gopi was asked why she does not apply 'KAAJAL' ( BLACK

EYELINER WHICH WOMEN USE AS PART OF EYE MAKE UP ): the gopi

replied " i don't need to because my Syama-sundar is always residing

in the pupil of my eyes' Shyama also refers to the color black ! IN

THE COLOR BLACK, ALL COLORS MERGE!

Yes! Both KALI AND KRISHNA ARE BLUISH BLACK - the color of the

infinite !

The dark blue colour is that of Infinity. Kali's or Krishna's

appearance in dark blue suggests that S/he is the matrix of all

colours of the objective world. Sri Ramakrishna tells us that the

advanced devotees of kALI/KRISHA do not see any colour in Him //Her,

although S/he appears to us as black due to the impure state of our

mind.

Speaking Of Bharati, Bharati is another name for Goddess Saraswati !

It is customary to attach the suffix 'Bharati' to all learned

persons !

We have another saint by the name Shuddananda Bharati ! Guess what,

folks! He was a disciple of Sri Aurobindo and this is what he had to

say about his Master Aurobindo .

'O Fosterer, O Sole Seer, O Ordainer, O illuminating Sun, O Power of

the Father of the creatures, marshal thy rays, draw together thy

light, the lustre which is thy most blessed form of all, that is Thee

I behold. The Purusha there and there, He am I (Isha Upanishad)

Swami Shuddananda Bharati, who wrote an article on Sri Aurobindo and

his Yoga, is with this above rapture of the vedic seer that a

conscious heart sees Sri Aurobindo today, "grand like the Himalayas,

vast like the blue above and blue below".

i guess to every disciple His MASTER is Supreme!

on another note , Let us Salute ADI SHANKARA BHAGVADAPADA , the

Sadguru and the Jagadguru !

bhagavAnbhAratIjEtA

SAradAhvAna paNdita: |

dharmAdarmavibhAgajnO

lakshyabhEdapradarSaka: ||

He is the Bhagavan who has won over Bharati, wife of Mandana Misra.

He invited Sarada to stay in Sringeri. He knows the demarcations

between dharma / adharma. He shows the way to realisation!

(FROM Sri Sankaracharya Ashtottara Satanama Stotram BY Sri

Vidyaranya)

i guess in one post, we are able to pay tribute to two great poet

saints with the last name 'Bharati. Another great saint sri

Aurobindo ! Then of course our beloved Acharya ADI shankara ! and

then of course , The stealer of all hearts - Chitta chora ,

Shyamasundara! SAMANVAYA, AT ITS BEST! SMILE!

Kabirdas, the great poet-saint sings thus :

Guru Gobind donon khade, Ka ke lagoon paayen,

Balihari Guru aapne, Jis Gobind diyo milaye.

As I look at my Guru and Govinda, I question myself who do I

prostrate to first. And Saint Kabir says while both guru and gobind

are worthy of worship my first salutations go to my Guru who showed

me the path to reach the LOTUS FEET OF THE Lord .

Sri Gurubhyo Namah

December 7, 2005

Sri Sri Sadananda-ji!

This is a double bonanza !

First , a true Vaishnava talks about 'Bhakti'

and even more staunch advaitin talks about all inclusive Bhakti and

Jnana!

Jnana is Saraswati and Bhakti is Lakshmi and the Third EYE IS SRI

LALITA PARAMESHWERI!

i deliberately inserted the conjunction 'and' between Jnana and

Bhakti - There is no 'competition' between the two ! There is

no 'choice involved' here!

Sada-ji, being a Bharatanatyam NatyaM dancer, i like to see Love or

devotion for God from the point of view of a dancer !

Here it goes :

yato hastas-tato dRStir yato dRStis-tato manaH

yato manas-tato bhAvaH yato bhAvas-tato rasaH

Where the hand moves, the gaze also follows.

Where the eyes turn to, there goes the mind.

When the mind is absorbed in, then appears bhava,

And where the bhava is, there manifests rasa.

(Abhinayadarpana of the author Nandikesvara )

The goal of the dance is to cause in the spectator the Rasa

experience.

AND WITHOUT'ABHINAYA' , no matter how beautiful a dancer is, no

matter how her costume and make up is , no matter how slim and

slender her body is, it will not create the right mood!

You need all the Four :

Angika Abhinaya - expression by body attitude

Vacika Abhinaya - expression by words

Aharya Abhinaya - expression by decoration, make-up and costume

Sattvika Abhinaya - expression by feeling

AND THIS IS HOW A bhakta is ! h/she is full OF RASA , ANANDA, Prema

SWARUPA and this is the 'bhava' s/he conveys when s/he prays to the

God AND WHEN SHE DANCES TO DIVINE MUSIC! !

Aandaal sings thus :

To Him the enchanter of all,

To Him the son of Mathura in the north,

To Him who played and frolicked,

In the shores of holy Yamuna ,

To Him who is the ornamental lamp,

Of the family of cow herds,

And to the Damodhara who made ,

His mothers womb holy,

We came after a holy bath,

And offered pure flowers at his feet,

And sang with our mouth,

And brought the thoughts of him in our mind,

And we were sure,

That all our mistakes of the past,

And all that we will do in future,

Will vanish as ashes in fire,

Oh, Goddess Pavai.

(thanks Krishna PRASAD ! )

SADA-JI, YOU HAVE EXPLAINED BEAUTIFULLY THE SYNTHESIS BETWEEN ALL THE

YOGA PATHS !

and i resonate with these delightful words in your post

"Therefore, Bhakti is essential for jnaana as well as karma to

transform them into yoga."

IN FACT, I WILL CALL THIS 'TRIVENI SANGHAM'- the meeting point of the

three rivers - Saraswati (jnana) , Ganga (karma) and Yamuna (

bhakti) !

and i luv the way you describe 'Nirguna' - gunatita 'beyond gunas' !

yes! Yes! Yes!

as 'saguna' brahman - he is full of kalyana gunas

as nirguna Brahman he is beyond gunas

and i do not like nirguna being defined as 'without attributes' !

smiles!

OM vishNave namah.

This nAma can be derived from the root vish - vyAptau - to pervade,

or vis - praveSane - to enter.

SrI Samkara gives the following supports for this nAma:

antar bahiSca tat sarvam vyApya nArAyaNah sthitah - (mahA nArAyaNa

upa. 1.13) -

nArAyaNa pervades the whole universe externally and internally.

"yasmAd vishTam idam sarvam tasya SaktyA mahAtmanah |

tasmAd vishNuriti khyAto veSer dhAtoh praveSanAt || (vishNu purANam

3.1.45)

"Because the whole world has been pervaded by the energy of the great

Self,

He is named vishNu, from the root viS - to enter or pervade."

ISAvAsyam idam sarvam yat ki'nca jagatyAm jagat -

Everything that exists in the universe is nothing but of the nature

of the Lord, and without Him nothing exists.

He pervades everything, unlimited by space, time, or substance.

Sri Gurave Namaha !

December 7, 2005

advaitin, kuntimaddi sadananda

<kuntimaddisada> wrote:

>Hence Shankara says:

> moksha kaaraNa saamaagryaam bhaktireva gariiyasi|

> swaswaruua anusandhaanam bhaktiH ityabhidheeyate||

> swaatma anubhava sandhaaanam bhaktiH ityapare jaguH||

>

> Of all the paths, bhakti is the supreme for moksha and that bhakti

is

> called one's intense contemplation on one's own self or

> self-realization.

>

> Therefore, Bhakti is essential for jnaana as well as karma to

transform

> them into yoga.

>

> >

> Hari OM!

> Sadananda

>

Namaste:

Sadananda-Ji has already said the important critical aspects

associated with bhakti and its relationship with advaita. Only one

caution I would like to point out to all saadhakaa that and Acharya

wrote all the stotra vaa~Nmaya after realization of advaita because

of the importance of this tool that can help us cross the bridge of

ahmakaara.

If we look at our vedic literature it becomes clear that development

of bhakti concept encompasses the desire to understand the

fundamental quality of truth. Whether the navavidhaa-bhakti (nine

modes) from bhaagavata puraaNa or naaradaa's eleven-aasaktis. All

of them stress the importance of absolutely honest and embrace the

truth with maximum clarity, understanding without any selfish

motives.

Word bhakti is derived from the root verb "bhaj" –

meaning "sevayaam". Vedic seers often invoked deities as dear

friends and relied on their friendship to create a better place for

themselves. Probably they realized that often friends are lot more

helpful then even the so called relatives. One can always demand

help from friends' often without any obligations and approaching

friends is lot easier than approaching a relative.

Based on the concept of friendship they approached the principles

as "powers that govern creation, destruction and that helps it

sustain".

In shri-suukta suuktakaara says uapaitu maama devasakaH kiirtiscya

maNinaa saha |

Here, the help is summoned from the outside because they could not

possibly solve their current problems. Here I think this is the

first place where rudra is invoked as a friend who has a tract

record of being helpful. The famous puraaNica stories of lord shiva

swallowing the halaahala poison at the time of samudra-manthana and

let it remain in the throat without swallowing it. That is why he

wan thence known as niilakanTha.

Some time sages invoked the Gods as their parents.

tvaM hi naH pi taa va so tvam maataa shatakrato babhuuvitha |

adhaa te sumnam ii mahe || R^igaveda. 8.98.11 ||

Meaning – OH shtakrato idraaa, you are our father and mother and we

desire happiness.

sakhaa pitaa pitR^itamaH pitR^INaaM kartem ulokam ushate vayodhaaH

|| R^igaveda. 4.17.17 ||

Meaning – For aspirants indra is not only a fiend, not only a father

but higher than the revered pitara (ancestors).

tvaM hi vishvatomukha vishvataH paribhuurasi || 1.97.6 ||

Meaning – Oh! Agni you are not only the mouth of this universe but

have encompassed it as well.

This mantra is teaching us the universal purification and enrichment

process through the use of fire. Also through this invocation of

agni, the seeker is desirous of the purification tool rather than

the end finished product. This must have later become the concept

of yaj~na.

yaH puurvyaaya vedhase naviiyase sumajjaanaye viShNave dadaashati |

yo jaatam asya mahato mahi bravat sed u shravobhir yujyaM cid abhy

asat || 1.156.2 ||

Meaning – Any one who oblates dravya to the ancient, ntytanutana

(always evolving), creator of universe and the self manifested and

one who recites his stories (kiitana); he including the listener

achieves the final abode (paranmpada).

tam u stotaaraH puurvyaM yathaa vida R^itasya garbhaM januShaa

pipartana | aasya jaananto naama cid vivaktana mahas te viShNo

sumatim bhajaamahe || 1.156.3 ||

Meaning – Praise the root principle viShNu as per your mati. That

is the grbha (unborn) of R^ita (apparent or perceived truth) as been

expounded through veda. Through his praise one can avoid re-birth.

If it is not possible to utter the praise then just utter his name.

I think this is one of the earliest references pertaining to the

concept of re-birth as expressed in the vedic literature.

Post has already become too long therefore I will post other

thoughts from yajurveda and atharvaveda and other upaniShada in

another post. Most of our saints use the same concepts and it is up

to us to determine what is relevant to us now.

Than you for this opportunity to post my little understanding from

the vedic lilerature. Corrections and comments are most welcome to

uenhance my personal understanding.

hariH OM tat sat !

Dr. Yadu

December 7, 2005

OM TAT SAT

In my humble opinion, bhakti is an inner strength or faith in the absolute

because if there is an infinite, then the infinite can be trusted for

everything. This trust, this conviction, this faith or this inner strength is

Jnana in opinion. Prahlad kept on repeating "Om Namo Bhagwate Vasudevaya"

whenever his path was fraught with problems or evils and he triumphed because

of his bhakti. Because of his faith in this mantra and Lord Vishnu, we was a

complete Samatva yogi whether we was meeting his mother in the prison or being

thrown from a high mountain.

regards,

OM TAT SAT

________

DSL – Something to write home about.

Just $16.99/mo. or less.

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December 7, 2005

advaitin, Brahmarpanam Brahmhavih

<mahadevadvaita> wrote:

>

> OM TAT SAT

> In my humble opinion, bhakti is an inner strength or faith in the

absolute

> because if there is an infinite, then the infinite can be trusted

for

> everything.

Namaste,

Readers are reminded to read Prof. VK-ji's series on

Advaita Bhakti through Contemplation on Narayaniyam:

advaitinNarayaniyam/

Regards,

Sunder

December 8, 2005

There are two yogas or means of evolution towards Moksha - one is karma

yoga and the other is jnaana yoga. There is no separate bhakti yoga.

Lokesmin dvividhaa nishTaa .. ... Jnaana yogena sankhyaanaam karma

yogena. Karma yoga cannot give moksha since moksha is not apraaptasya

praaptam -

that is gaining something that one does not intrinsically have it.

praNAms Respected Sri Sadananda prabhuji

Hare Krishna

It gives me immense pleasure to see your mails after a considerable lapse

of time...

Yes, prabhuji, as you have rightly pointed out there are only two yOga-s

one is karma & another is jnAna....karma is purusha tantra pradhAna & jnAna

is vastu tantra pradhAna....our dhyAna, upAsana prArthana, archana etc.

etc. towards our Ishta dEvata comes under the category of purusha tantra

sAdhana...that which we may either do it, may not do it or do it in other

way...(kartum, akartum yA anyatA kartuM)...in this sAdhana through our

effort we can modify the end result...our dhyAna gives us exactly what we

have fed to our mind. (yad bhAvaM tad bhavati) If I do upAsanA as God is

Krishna bhagavAn then that is what exactly my experience in dhyAna. If I

do upAsanA & worship my ishtadEvata as Goddess durgA mAta & treat that her

auspicious form as the ultimate one then that is exactly what I am going to

*see* in sAkshAtkAra. We cannot propitiate & have darshan of durgAmAta by

worshipping & meditating on the form of krishna bhagavAn..we have to

switchover from one deity to another & change our methods of sAdhana to

have different kinds of *darshans*. IMHO, that is what paramahaMsa did,

when he want to have darshana of Jesus he followed christian procedures &

when he wants to know the tattva of *allah* he followed the muslims rituals

& did namaz...(in his biography it is mentioned during these days he did

not even turn his face towards dakshiNEshwar kAli temple!!) From this, it

is evident that upAsana is karma pradhAna where *human effort* plays a

vital role in attaining the end result.

But shAstra janita Atmaikatva jnAna is not *effort* oriented

result...shruti verdict ahaM brahma asmi is neither upAsana nor a result of

upasana. Upanasa & bhakti towards our ishta dEvata what we have talked

above is also karma since one has to 'do upAsana' - and result of these

karma-s are limited since karma itself is limited. Since our svarUpa being

infinite it cannot be a product of a finite action like upAsana towards our

IshtadEvata. Nevertheless, upAsana is recommended for purification of the

mind for maNda & madhya adhikAri-s- (yoginaH karma kurvanti saghaM tyaktvA

Atma shuddhaye - gIta). But intuitive realization of Atmaikatva is

paramArtha jnAna & this jnAna is not purusha tantra wherein I can

switchover from krishna to durgA to something else. Atma jnAna is not a

product of action. It is purely vastu taNtra.

Having said all these, advaita never ever downplay the efficacy of

bhakti...it is an indispensable requisite in our sAdhanA mArga...but we

should always strive to elevate ourselves from Artha & arthArti bhakta

category to jignAsa bhakta...& finally jnAna nishtA rUpa

parAbhakti..(chaturvidha bhajantE mAM ....arthO jignAsu arthArthI jnAnI..)

Just few of my thoughts...my humble apologies if this mail hurts any

dEvi/dEva bhakta-s in this list.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

December 8, 2005

Prabhu-ji!

Hari BOL!

i was also wondering the same about you as to why our prabhuji is

so 'quiet ' and not taking part in discussions here. Welcome back,

prabhu-ji! i was delighted to read your words of wisdom.

Prabhuji writes :

(If I do upAsanA as God is Krishna bhagavAn then that is what

exactly my experience in dhyAna. If I do upAsanA & worship my

ishtadEvata as Goddess durgA mAta & treat that her auspicious form

as the ultimate one then that is exactly what I am going to

*see* in sAkshAtkAra.)

True, somewhat ...

But, let us take the names of both Kali and Krishna!

We are taking the example of Kali because she is the 'ishta-nista' of

Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa.

in some places in the tantrik tradition, the Krishna avatar of

Vishnu is often identified with Kali. This reaches a peak in the

Tantrarajatantra, where it is said that having already charmed the

world of men as herself, Lalita took a male form as Krishna and then

proceeded to enchant women. In this work, Krishna has six forms,

identified with the six senses (including Mind).

They are Kamaraja Gopala,

Manmatha Gopala,

Kandarpa Gopala,

Makaraketana Gopala and

Manobhava Gopala.

Their meditation images (dhyana according to the same work, describes

them as being like dawn, with six arms, holding flute, noose, goad,

sugar cane bow and a bowl of curds. These are the five arrows of

Lalita and the bow and here Krishna is identified with Kameshvara,

the Indian god of love, who is otherwise called Ananga, and, like

Cupid, is armed with a bow.

The Kalivilasa Tantra, a Bengali work, states Krishna was born as the

son of Devi who was golden (Gauri) and turned black when he was

excited by passion.

In the Todala Tantra, each of the ten Mahavidyas, forms of the

supreme Goddess, has her own male counterpart and here Krishna is

said to be the spouse of Kali. There are many images of Krishna in

India which show him as black. An Indian commentator to the hymn to

Kali called Karpuradistotra, goes further and says that there is a

connection between the bija mantra of Kali which is Krim,and Krishna

Krishna whose bija mantra is klim

The unity of Kali and Krishna can be discovered through analyzing

their bija mantras and their names:

Kali = krIM

Krishna = klIM

First of all, they only differ by one letter.

Second, if you take each bija letter by letter, you can arrive at the

correspocding name of the other:

klIM (Krishna bija) = ka + la + I + M ~ KALI

krIM (Kali bija) = ka + ra + I + M ~ KRISHNA (First 3 letters anyway.)

They are not exact, but neither are these two deities the same in

OUTWARD form.

Their INNER unity is shown in their beginning, "ka"; their middle,

"I"; and their end "M." The one letter difference changes the entire

outward form and function of the deity ("ra" is fire = transformation

= Kali and "la" is Earth or Krishna coming to Earth).

Further, "krishna" means dark, and Kali is darkness Herself.

Finally, Kali has been translated as "She who takes away the darkness"

and Krishna was Vishnu's avatar who descended in the Dvapara Yuga to

take away the darkness of that age. Surely Kali was the shakti behind

Krishna...

(posted in group Brahmanshakti)

a PARAMA BHAKTA IS ALSO A PARAMA JNANI and once A BHAKTA BECOMES A

BRAHMA JNANI, ALL DIFFERENCES AND DISTINCTIONS vanish- all forms and

names Vanish!

As swami Vivekanda says

"The calm sea is the Absolute; the same sea in

waves is Divine Mother. She is time, space, and

causation. God is Mother and has two natures, the

conditioned and the unconditioned. As the former, She is God,

nature, and soul (humanity). As the latter, She is

unknown and unknowable. Out of the Unconditioned came the

trinity god, nature, and soul, the triangle of

existence...

A bit of Mother, a drop, was Krishna, another was

Buddha, another was Christ. The worship of even one spark

of Mother in our earthly mother leads to greatness.

Worship Her if you want love and wisdom."

Swami Vivekananda, Inspired Talks, July, 1895.

Prabhuji, Once sri Ramakrishna was asked by his disciple

this question as to whether kali and krishna are different? our

beloved shri ramakrishna that which is kali is krishna and that which

is krishna is also kali as per the tantras.

PRABHUJI, THERE IS A VERSE IN SRIMAD BHAGVATAM WHICH GOES LIKE THIS

Swayam Samuteerya sudustaram dyuman,

bhavarnavam bhimmadabhrasauhridaha

bhavatpadambhoruhnaavmatra te

nidhaay yataaha sadanugrahobhavan"

Meaning:

"This world ocean is so dangerous that it can not be crossed with all

sufferings also. But these gentlemen i.e. Acharyas are full of pity.

They themselves achieve the divine goal and help others also to

attain the same by creating the suitable path. They have left here

the boat in the form of the path to cross this difficult ocean. Now

lots of people are able to cross the sea with the help of this boat".

Here in this verse 'Sadnugrahobhavan' means God is favouring people

who accompany these gentlemen (Acharyas) by following the path

indicated by these Acharyas and gives them desired fruits even if

these people do not know how to cross this difficult ocean.

OUR Most BELOVED ADI SHANKARA BHAGVADAPADA was known as

Shanmathapratishtapakacharya, which means, not one who established

the six forms of worship for the first time but one who revived and

gave strength and stability to the existing ones. Nor were they to

Sri Sankara six different, and much less, opposed forms. They are six

alternative ways in which the same Supreme God is worshipped

according to the preference of the worshipper. Each chooses his Ishta

devata among them, determined by his family tradition (kulachara) and

his inclination (ruchi), and accommodates the rest also in a

subsidiary way in his pattern of worship. Thus Sri Sankara

ESTABLISHED 1)Sauram 2)saktham 3)saivam 4) Ganpathyam 5) Vaishnavam

6) kaumaram .

The Gita says

Sri Sankara Bhagavatpada taught us the truth that all the deities we

hereditarily worship are but the manifestations of the One supreme

Paramaatma.

Yo yo yaam Yaam tanum bhaktah

sraddhaya architum icchati;

Tasya tasyaachalaam shraddhaam

Taam eva vidadhaamyaham

Prabhuji,

i luved these nectarean words in your post

( never ever downplay the efficacy of > bhakti...it is an

indispensable requisite in our sAdhanA mArga...but we

should always strive to elevate ourselves from Artha & arthArti

bhakta > category to jignAsa bhakta...& finally jnAna nishtA rUpa

parAbhakti..(chaturvidha bhajantE mAM ....arthO jignAsu arthArthI

jnAnI..)

Yes! Adi Shankara's 'baja govindam' stotra and Prabodha Sudakaram

combine the philosophy of 'bhakti' and jnana in an exemplary manner!

Keep writing, prabhuji- you are truly inspiring!

AT THE LOTUS FEET OF ONE AND ONLY ACHARYA, SRI SHANKARACHARYA !

December 8, 2005

Namaste Bhasker Prabhuji:

I am of the opinion that one of the important reasons for the

division of Yoga into Karma, Bhakti and Jnana is just convenience.

Bhagavad Gita is declared only as `Yogasastra' but the perception of

the Yogasastra varies according to one's spiritual maturity and

living environment. The buddhi (discriminating faculty of the mind)

first analyses the Yoga as Karma, Bhakti and Jnana and finally the

same buddhi recognizes their underlined unity. As long as we dwell in

the relative world, we could only recognize the plurality and that is

due to the spell of mAyA. Eventually when the delusion is dispelled,

we are able to recognize our `BhagawatBhavam – Divine Nature."

Another significant Sanskrit word in this context is "Subhava" which

literally means one's True Nature. According to Bhagavad Gita,

with `yagna spirit' it is possible for us to recognize our Subhava.

The BrahmaSubhava represents the Subhava that doesn't change. This

is the nature which has no nature of its own! It is quite interesting

that the word `Bhavam (or bhava)' has been referred in Bhagavad Gita

many times. The reason that I am bringing this to the attention of

the list is due to the fact, that our goal is to attain the `Brahma

or Bhagawat Subhavam' and Bhakti is one of the means by which we can

reach this goal. This may explain why the website of Bhakti Vedanta

Society (Hare Krishna Movement) provides detailed reference to the

occurrence of `Bhavam' in Bhagavad Gita and the list is provided

below:

Reference Source; http://vedabase.net/b/bhavam

mat-bhāvam — transcendental love for Me; BG 4.10

bhāvam — nature; BG 7.15

bhāvam — existence; BG 7.24

mat-bhāvam — My nature; BG 8.5

bhāvam — nature; BG 8.6

bhāvam — nature; BG 9.11

pṛthak-bhāvam — separated identities; BG 13.31

mat-bhāvam — to My spiritual nature; BG 14.19

bhāvam — situation; BG 18.20

bhāvam — ecstasy; SB 1.3.39

bhāvam — intimate affection and love; SB 1.5.39

apunaḥ-bhavam — liberation from matter; SB 1.18.13

ātma-bhāvam — attraction of love; SB 2.4.3-4

bhāvam — indication; SB 3.14.14

bhavam — Lord Śiva; SB 3.23.1

param bhāvam — your transcendent situation; SB 3.23.54

bhāvam — devotional service; SB 3.29.8

bhavam — to Bhava; SB 4.1.65

bhavam — Lord Śiva; SB 4.4.2

bhavam — Lord Śiva; SB 4.6.5

viśva-bhavam — the cause of material creation; SB 4.9.16

bhavam — repetition of birth and death; SB 4.9.34

bhavam — existence; SB 4.19.38

apunaḥ-bhavam — merging into the Supreme; SB 4.24.57

apunaḥ-bhavam — merging into the Brahman effulgence; SB 4.30.34

mithunī-bhāvam — attraction for sexual life; SB 5.5.8

bhava-bhāvam — who is the origin of the material creation; SB 5.17.18

bhāvam — ecstasy; SB 6.4.43

bhāvam — mentality; SB 6.7.12

apunaḥ-bhavam — liberation from rebirth in a material body; SB 6.11.25

bhāvam — the mentality; SB 6.12.20

mat-bhāvam — My spiritual position; SB 6.16.57

bhāvam — mentality; SB 6.18.20

sva-bhāvam — her nature; SB 6.18.40

bhavam āśritaḥ — who is in material existence; SB 7.6.5

bhāvam — the attitude; SB 7.6.24

asat-bhāvam — a false conception of life; SB 7.7.19-20

bhāvam — tendency; SB 7.8.9

bhavam — to Lord Śiva; SB 7.10.32

bhavam — Lord Śiva; SB 8.4.17-24

sa-bhavam — with Lord Śiva; SB 8.23.3

bhāvam — reverence and devotion; SB 9.4.17

sarva-ātma-bhāvam — all different varieties of devotional service; SB

9.4.21

bhāvam — propensity; SB 9.9.25

anya-bhāvam — consciousness other than Kṛṣṇa

consciousness; SB 9.9.48

bhāvam — devotional service; SB 9.9.48

bhāvam — a different attitude of attachment or envy; SB 9.19.15

apunaḥ-bhavam — cessation of repeated birth (liberation, salvation);

SB 9.21.12

mat-bhavam — Viṣṇu's appearance; SB 10.3.44

bhāvam — the situation in relation to the Supreme Lord; SB 10.4.27

apunaḥ-bhavam — freedom from rebirth; SB 10.16.37

bhāvam — the devotion; SB 10.23.42

bhāvam — entity; SB 10.24.19

bhāvam — pure love; SB 10.46.32-33

bhavam — material existence; SB 10.54.48

mātṛ-bhāvam — the mood or affection of a mother; SB 10.55.11

bhāvam — the status; SB 10.65.29

bhāvam — ecstatic absorption; SB 10.82.39

anu-bhavam — life after life; SB 10.83.12

bhāvam — loving service; SB 10.87.32

bhagavat-bhāvam — the ability to be engaged in the service of the

Lord; SB 11.2.45

apunaḥ-bhavam — liberation; SB 11.14.14

bhāvam — nature; SB 11.15.27

apunaḥ-bhavam — freedom from birth and death; SB 11.20.34

sva-bhāvam — manifested from his conditioned nature; SB 11.28.31

mat-bhāvam — the personal presence of Me; SB 11.29.15

ātma-bhāvam — their own true identity; SB 12.3.50

apunaḥ-bhavam — freedom from rebirth; SB 12.6.38

bhāvam — to the transformation; SB 12.8.30

One of the important lessons that we learn from the above reference

is the fact, that as advaitins, we can learn that the Bhakti does not

contradict the teachings of advaita. The ultimate goal remains the

same both Bhaktas and Jnanis!

The Bhakti Yoga aspects of Bhagavad Gita for our convenience may be

focused through the verses in Chapters 7 to 12. In this context, the

advaitic explanations to verse 15 of chapter 7 provided by Swami

Dayananda Saraswati of Arsha Vidya Gurukulam (Source: Gita Homestudy

Notes)

na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah

mayaya'pahrtajnana asuram bhavamasritah

duskrtino - those who do wrong actions; mudhah - deluded;

naradhamah - the lowest among men; na mam prapadyante - do not seek

me; apahrtajnana - robbed of their discrimination; mayaya - due to

may a; airitah - they are the ones who have resorted to; bhavam -

state of being; asuram - one who revels in sense pursuits or does

things that are not good for him.

Those who do wrong actions, who are deluded and the lowest among men

do not seek me. Robbed of their discrimination by may a, they have

resorted to the condition of those who revel in sense pursuits.

Who are the People Who Do Not Seek Isvara at All?

These are those who, even though they can cross over this maya by

seeking me, do not seek me, mam na prapadyante. Why? Because they

are mudhah, duskrtinah, naradhamah, and mayaya apahrtajnanah. You

cannot say more. Lord Krsna simply piled up all these

characteristics which, in short, make them people who have resorted

to the condition of indulging in what is not good for them, asuram

bhavatn asritah. Let us see the individual words. Duskrtinah means

those who, either in this life or in the previous ones have done

wrong actions, papa karma. And duskrtinah can also be taken as those

who continue to do so. Mudhah. Why do they do this? Because they

are mudhah deluded. To put it in a simple form they have a confusion

of priorities. What exactly is important and what is not is not

very clear. As a result, sometimes the end becomes so important, the

propriety of the means is not considered. Even for religious

fanatics the end becomes so important that they compromise the

means. This is an unfortunate thing. These people are called

mudhah, deluded as they are about what is to be done and what is not

to be done, karyam-akaryam. As a result, they become duskrtinah,

people who did wrong actions previously and continue to do so under

the spell of maya?

Nara-adhamah. Sankara says among the human beings, there are people

who are exalted, utkrstah, lowly, adhama, and in between, average,

madhyamah. Being lowly in terms of behavior is entirely due to

thinking. Essentially there is no sinner. But due to ignorance

and a lack of discrimination, people do behave improperly. They can

gain a good discriminative faculty through doing good karma at least

in this life. But even for this, a change in thinking has to occur.

That is why grace is required and therefore, prayer.

Why are They Like This? f"

Mayaya apahrtajnanah, their discrimination is robbed away by maya.

Apahrta-jnanah means those who have lost their viveka - mayaya,

because of the very maya that they have to cross. Maya, we have

seen, means ignorance and its products, likes and dislikes and so

on. It becomes a decoy. Robbed by this maya one is bereft of his

treasure, jnanam, which here means viveka. That rational,

discriminative faculty is our treasure. And if the treasure which is

given only to a human being is taken away by maya, a person becomes

totally given to the condition of an asura, asuram bha.va.rn aSritah.

What is an Asura?

Asuram bhavam asritah. Surah means the one who revels in himself or

in things that are good. Asura means the opposite. It can also

mean asusu-ramate. those who revel only in the sense organs meaning

the sense enjoyments - wine, woman, horse races, discos and so on.

Or, as Sankara takes it, himsa-anrta-adi-laksanam. Himsa means

hurting another for the sake of personal gain like money or pleasure.

Then anrtam is falsehood and adi can be all other false values like

stealing. Laksanam means characteristics, so these are the

characteristics of the state of mind and lifestyle of an asura,

asuram bhavam. Given to this, naturally they do not seek me. Carried

away by fancies and wrong values, they will be totally given to the

life of an asura, asuram bhavam asritah and they do not come to me at

all. They do not even think of me. The Lord just does not come into

their lives. Lord Krsna himself tells us in the next verse that to

overcome this seemingly hopeless situation one need not even

know Isvara as oneself. Just the understanding that there is

Isvara is good enough. Then a certain attitude and prayer will

develop and one will find that changes begin to take place. These

changes occur only with a prayerful attitude and recognition of

Isvara in one form or another. That is what really paves the way for

an inner conversion to take place.

Lord Krsna is going to explain in the rest of the chapter that for

those who are prayerful only in distress, there is hope. They may not

think of me at all until they get into trouble, but at least they

think of me at that time. There are some who, even in trouble will

not think of me. But even if they think of me only in distress, there

is a change. That is what we call conversion. Once Isvara is

accommodated in one's life, the change takes place there afterwards.

With my warmest regards and Happy Holidays!

Harih Om!

Ram Chandran

advaitin, bhaskar.yr@i... wrote:

>

> There are two yogas or means of evolution towards Moksha - one is

karma

> yoga and the other is jnaana yoga. There is no separate bhakti yoga.

> Lokesmin dvividhaa nishTaa .. ... Jnaana yogena sankhyaanaam karma

> yogena. Karma yoga cannot give moksha since moksha is not

apraaptasya

> praaptam -

> that is gaining something that one does not intrinsically have it.

>

December 8, 2005

Oh! Sri Ram-ji !

What golden words ! You came at the right time to dispel the 'avidya'

surrounding Bhakti yoga to help us move forward in this discussion !

Thank you, kindly!

not everybody is qualified to practice yoga , be it Bhakti or jnana

oer even karma yoga !

Yes we can all pray, read scriptures , quote the bhasyas and discuss

and debate BUT ACTUAL 'PRACTICE' is what counts.

zankaraM zankarAcAryaM kezavaM bAdarAyaNaM

sUtra bhASyakRtau vande bhagavanto punaH punaH

Here is a simple capsule for Sadhana

by sincere seekers of the Lord,

as stated in 'Sadhana Panchakam' -

of Adi Jagadguru Sri Shankara acharya Bhagavatpada

In this GREAT WORK of 'Sadhana Pamcakam' consisting of FIVE sublime

verses, Adi Jagadguru Sri Shankaracarya enumerates some 40 items that

constitute 'Spiritual Sadhana'.

Bhagavatpada Shankara in these five simple-looking verses carefully

lists the ways and means which can readily be followed by all sincere

Seekers of God, yearning for direct EXPERIENCE of the Divine State,

beyond mind, the Spring of Divine Consciousness and Bliss.

Sri Shakara shows here the Path to Truth, the Path that trodden by

the innumerable Masters of the Vedas and the Upanishads.

(1)

vedo nityama dhIyatAM tad uditaM karma svanuSThitAM

tenezasya vidhIyatAm apacitiH kAmye matis tyajyatAm,

pApaughaH pari dhUyatAM bhava sukhe doSo 'nusaMdhIyatAM

AtmecchA vyavasIyatAM nijagRhAt tUrNaM vinirgamyatAm

Study the Vedas (Holy Scriptures) daily.

Perform diligently the duties (karmas) ordained by them.

DEDICATE ALL those actions (karmas) as WORSHIP unto the Lord.

Renounce ALL DESIRES in the heart and mind.

Wash away the hoards of sin in the bosom.

Recognize that the PLEASURES of sense-objects are riddled with pain.

Seek the Self, Beloved Lord with consistent endeavor.

Escape (free yourself) from the bondages of 'I','MINE' and 'MY HOME'.

(2)

saMgaH satsu vidhIyatAM bhagavato bhaktir dRDhA ' 'dhIyatAM

zAntyAdiH paricIyatAM dRDhataraM karmAzu santyajyatAm,

sad vidvAn upAsRpyatAM pratidinaM tat pAdukA sevyatAM

brahm aikAkSaram arthyatAM zruti zirovAkyaM samAkarNyatAm

Seek companionship with MEN-OF-WISDOM.

Be established in FIRM DEVOTION to the Lord.

Cultivate the virtues such as peace, truthfulness,

non-violence, compassion (shanti etc.,).

Eschew ALL desire-ridden actions.

Take SHELTER at a PERFECT MASTER (Guru)

Everyday SERVE His Lotus Feet.

Worship His Sacred, Immutable Words.

Listen in depth, the Upanishadic (Scriptural) declarations.

(3)

vAkyArthazca vicAryatAM zrutiziraH pakSaH samazrIyatAM

dustarkAt suviramyatAM zruti matas tarko 'nusandhIyatAm,

brahmAsmIti vibhAvyatAm aharahar garvaH parityajyatAM

dehe 'ham itir ujhyatAM budha janair vAdaH parityajyatAm

Reflect upon the MEANING of the Holy Scriptural (Veda) commandments.

And take REFUGE in the Supreme Truth.

Avoid perverse ARGUMENTS but follow the discriminative rationale of

the Sacred Words.

Always be absorbed in the attitude (consciousness)- "I am Spiritual

and Divine".

Renounce PRIDE.

Free yourself from the delusory misconception - " I am this body".

Give up totally the tendency to ARGUE with WISE MEN (Saints).

(4)

kSudvyAdhi cikitsyatAM pratidinaM bhikSauSadhaM bhujyatAM

svAdvannaM na tu yAcyatAM vidhi vazAt prAptena saMtuSyatAm,

zItoSNAdi viSahyatAM na tu vRthA vAkyaM samuccAryatAM

audAsInyam abhIpsyatAM jana kRpA naiSThuryam utsRjyatAm

In the hunger-disease get TREATED.

Daily take the MEDICINE of Bhiksha - Food received as Alms.

Beg NO delicious food.

Live contendtedly upon whatever comes to your lot as ORDAINED by Him.

Endure all the PAIRS-OF-OPPOSITES: heat and cold, and the like.

Avoid WASTEFUL talks.

Be indifferent.

Save yourself from the MESHES of other peoples' KINDNESS and

RUDENESS.

Final verse (5)

yekAnte sukhamAsyatAM paratare cetaH samAdhIyatAM

pUrNAtmA susamIkSyatAM jagag idaM tad bAdhitaM dRzyatAm,

prAkkarma pravilayatAM citi balAnnApy uttaraiH zliSyatAM

prArabdhaM tviha bhujyatAm atha prabrahm AtmanA sthIyatAm

Live joyously in SOLITUDE.

QUITEN your MIND ABSORBING the consciousness in the Supreme.

Realize and visualize the All-Pervading Lord every where.

Recognize that the finite Universe is a projection of the Infinite

Divine Self.

Vanquish the effects of the deeds done in earlier lifes by the

present right action.

Through WISDOM become detached from FUTURE actions.

Experience and EXHAUST 'PRARABDHA' the fruits of past actions in this

life itself.

Thereafter, LIVE ABSORBED in the DIVINE CONSCIOUSNESS ESTABLISHING

the Supreme Lord in Divine SELF.

(Divine_Lovers/ Message/1159 )

in aSrimad Bhagwat Gita , there are seperate chapters devoted to

different yogas including Bhakti, Jnana , Karma and Raja!

They say all roads lead to Rome !

I WOULD SAY ' bhakti path leads to all other paths'

all of us are not borm with all the qualifications to jump istraight

into the Ocean of 'jnana' marga, we need to qualify ourselves first

through the path of bhakti - purifing ourselves!

HERE I WOULD LIKE TO QUOTE OUR MOST RESPECTED SUNDER-JI, acommentary

he wtote on Narada bhakti sutra 3

amrits swarupam cha

And its nature is like amR^ita.

"Another perspective of the glory of devotion is that it is

uniquely 'unbroken'(akhaNDa); like the flow of the Ganges continues

even after it meets the ocean. All other approaches (saadhanaas)

[yaj~nakarmas-yoga-j~naana]'die' or end at the fruition; but the love

of devotion increases and continues even after the culmination"

and this is why Shankara bhagvadapada sings in Shatpadi stotra

Oh! Protector! Even with the difference (between You and me) passing

off, I become Yours but You do not become mine. Indeed (though there

is no difference between the waves and the ocean) the wave belongs to

the ocean but nowhere (never) does the ocean belong to the wave.

Folks, i met all these men of wisdom like Professorji , sunderji on

the internet even before i joined the 'advaitin' group ! Thanks to

internet Devi, these gems are available to us to read and to read !

AT THE LOTUS FEET OF GURU AND GAURANGA!

(THANK YOU RAM-JI „ BHAVAM should become Swabhavam- YES! OFFERING

PRAYERS TO THE LORD SHOULD BECOME OUR INNATURE NATURE NOT SECOND

NATURE) THAT WILL BE THE BEST ANUBHAVAM - OR WAY TO ATMANUBHAVAM!

December 8, 2005

Namaste Satsanghis:

I noticed that the list containing 'Bhavam' is still messed up due to

format mix-up. Here is final correction to the list. Hopefully, this

time it will appear normal!

Reference Source; http://vedabase.net/b/bhavam

-------------

mat-bhavam — transcendental love for Me; BG 4.10

bhavam — nature; BG 7.15

bhavam — existence; BG 7.24

mat-bhavam — My nature; BG 8.5

bhavam — nature; BG 8.6

bhavam — nature; BG 9.11

prthak-bhavam — separated identities; BG 13.31

mat-bhavam — to My spiritual nature; BG 14.19

bhavam — situation; BG 18.20

bhavam — ecstasy; SB 1.3.39

bhavam — intimate affection and love; SB 1.5.39

apunah-bhavam — liberation from matter; SB 1.18.13

atma-bhavam — attraction of love; SB 2.4.3-4

bhavam — indication; SB 3.14.14

bhavam — Lord Siva; SB 3.23.1

param bhavam — your transcendent situation; SB 3.23.54

bhavam — devotional service; SB 3.29.8

bhavam — to Bhava; SB 4.1.65

bhavam — Lord Siva; SB 4.4.2

bhavam — Lord Siva; SB 4.6.5

visva-bhavam — the cause of material creation; SB 4.9.16

bhavam — repetition of birth and death; SB 4.9.34

bhavam — existence; SB 4.19.38

apunah-bhavam — merging into the Supreme; SB 4.24.57

apunah-bhavam — merging into the Brahman effulgence; SB 4.30.34

mithuni-bhavam — attraction for sexual life; SB 5.5.8

bhava-bhavam — who is the origin of the material creation; SB 5.17.18

bhavam — ecstasy; SB 6.4.43

bhavam — mentality; SB 6.7.12

apunah-bhavam — liberation from rebirth in a material body; SB 6.11.25

bhavam — the mentality; SB 6.12.20

mat-bhavam — My spiritual position; SB 6.16.57

bhavam — mentality; SB 6.18.20

sva-bhavam — her nature; SB 6.18.40

bhavam Sritah — who is in material existence; SB 7.6.5

bhavam — the attitude; SB 7.6.24

asat-bhavam — a false conception of life; SB 7.7.19-20

bhavam — tendency; SB 7.8.9

bhavam — to Lord Siva; SB 7.10.32

bhavam — Lord Siva; SB 8.4.17-24

sa-bhavam — with Lord Siva; SB 8.23.3

bhavam — reverence and devotion; SB 9.4.17

sarva-atma-bhavam — all different varieties of devotional service; SB

9.4.21

bhavam — propensity; SB 9.9.25

anya-bhavam — consciousness other than Krsna consciousness; SB 9.9.48

bhavam — devotional service; SB 9.9.48

bhavam — a different attitude of attachment or envy; SB 9.19.15

apunah-bhavam — cessation of repeated birth (liberation,

salvation);SB 9.21.12

mat-bhavam — Visnu's appearance; SB 10.3.44

bhavam — the situation in relation to the Supreme Lord; SB 10.4.27

apunaha;-bhavam — freedom from rebirth; SB 10.16.37

bhavam — the devotion; SB 10.23.42

bhavam — entity; SB 10.24.19

bhavam — pure love; SB 10.46.32-33

bhavam — material existence; SB 10.54.48

matr-bhavam — the mood or affection of a mother; SB 10.55.11

bhavam — the status; SB 10.65.29

bhavam — ecstatic absorption; SB 10.82.39

anu-bhavam — life after life; SB 10.83.12

bhavam — loving service; SB 10.87.32

bhagavat-bhavam — the ability to be engaged in the service of the

Lord; SB 11.2.45

apunah-bhavam — liberation; SB 11.14.14

bhavam — nature; SB 11.15.27

apunah-bhavam — freedom from birth and death; SB 11.20.34

sva-bhavam — manifested from his conditioned nature; SB 11.28.31

mat-bhavam — the personal presence of Me; SB 11.29.15

atma-bhavam — their own true identity; SB 12.3.50

apunah-bhavam — freedom from rebirth; SB 12.6.38

bhavam — to the transformation; SB 12.8.30

regards,

Harih Om!

Ram Chandran

advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <ramvchandran>

wrote:

>

--- End forwarded message ---

December 8, 2005

Dear All:

Is there any down side to practicing Bhakti?

Thank you,

Dr. Yadu

December 8, 2005

praNAms Sri Ramachandra prabhuji

Hare Krishna

Ram prabhuji:

The buddhi (discriminating faculty of the mind)

first analyses the Yoga as Karma, Bhakti and Jnana and finally the

same buddhi recognizes their underlined unity.

bhaskar :

Yes prabhuji, this bhddhi being completely immersed in our bhagavadpAda's

teaching should realize neither karma nor anything else would help us to

realize the ultimate..ONLY shAstra janita jnAna and jnAna alone is the

means...*nahi jnAnEna sadrushaM* declares lord in gIta...na karmaNa na

prajaya dhanEna tyAgEnikE amrutatva mAnashuhu..says taitirIya nArAyaNa

shruti.

Ram prabhuji :

Another significant Sanskrit word in this context is "Subhava" which

literally means one's True Nature.

bhaskar :

is it *sva-bhAva* what you are referring above prabhuji?? I think the

*Subhava* is the tamil based pronouniciation of sanskrit word

*svabhAva*...am I right prabhuji?? svadharma, sva-iccha, svarUpa,

svasTha..are some of other sanskrit words. do you pronouce these words

also like that prabhuji?? Just an inquisitive question.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

December 8, 2005

praNAms Sri Adi Shakthi mAtAji

Hare Krishna

Adi mAtAji :

i was also wondering the same about you as to why our prabhuji is

so 'quiet ' and not taking part in discussions here.

bhaskar :

it is because most of the time I'll be working on network terminal at my

work station...only my colleague has the PC with internet

accessability...only when he is on official tour or leave I can come & sit

at his work station to read/send mails. My participation in the group

discussion is mainly depends upon my colleague's mercy :-))

Adi mAtAji :

We are taking the example of Kali because she is the 'ishta-nista' of

Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa.

in some places in the tantrik tradition, the Krishna avatar of

Vishnu is often identified with Kali.

bhaskar :

Thanks a lot Adi mAtAji for giving referecnes from various sources &

equating kAli with krishna...I have not read any tAntric works. so, I am

not competent enough to comment on your references from taNtra books.

Do these tAntric works say anything about attaining *krishna bhAva* &

*dEvi bhAva* which we see in mAta amrutAnanda mayi's biography. just a

curious question out of academic interest.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

December 9, 2005

Namaste Sri Bhaskar Prabhuji:

The point that I tried to make in last posting is the Point that the

labeling such 'Jnana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga and Karma Yoga' is purely a

human perception. The ultimate goal is to attain the 'Yagna spirit -

conducting duties spontaenously and unselfishly with devotion and

determination.' A Jnani perceives a Karma Yogi or Bhakta as a Jnani and

similarly a Bhakata perceives a Jnani as a True Bhakta! No analysis is

necessary and Sankara's Wisdom, his works and great devotion

demonstrates truly that karma, Bhakti and jnana are integrated and

inseparable!! A visistadavitan or a dvaitan recognizes Sankara as a

great Bhakta. We the ordinary persons of the world admire him as a

Karma Yogi. The realized jnanis visualize Sankara as the Jnani.

Regarding your second enquiry, my Tamil 'subhavam' has visualized the

Sanskrit word 'svabhavam' as 'subhavam.' This is one of the

transiliteration anomoly and once again demonstrate the limitation of

writing the Sanskrit word using differentt language system!

Warmest regards,

Harih Om!

Ram Chandran

advaitin, bhaskar.yr@i... wrote:

>

> Yes prabhuji, this bhddhi being completely immersed in our

bhagavadpAda's

> teaching should realize neither karma nor anything else would help us

to

> > bhaskar :

>

> is it *sva-bhAva* what you are referring above prabhuji?? I think the

> *Subhava* is the tamil based pronouniciation of sanskrit word

December 9, 2005

Thank you Sri RAM-JI !

Very well put ! Take the case of Mahatma Gandhi , for instance.

i will provide some relevent quotes from Gandhiji to show how he

regarded the paths of Jnana, Bhakti and karma all go hand in hand !

Gandhiji's day began with prayers and ended with prayers .

Here are some memorable quotations from Gandhiji on this subject:

Gandhiji said ' The biggest of karmayogis never gives up devotional

songs or worship.'

I believe in advaita, I believe in the essential unity of man and for

that matter of all that lives.

Knowledge and devotion, to be true, have to stand the rest of

renunciation of the fruits of action. The path of bhakti, karma and

love as expounded in the Gita leaves no room for the despising of man

by man.

In order that knowledge may not run riot, the author of the Gita has

insisted on devotion accompanying it and has given it the first

place.

Without devotion, action and knowledge are cold and dry, and may even

become shackles.

Those who are lacking in bhakti (devotion), lacking in faith, are ill

qualified to interpret the scriptures.

I am endeavouring to see God through service of humanity; for I know

that God is neither in heaven, nor down below, but in everyone.

The sum total of all that lives is God. We may not be God but we are

of God even as a little drop of water is of the ocean.

Quotes end

Ramji, if you read my response to your post, you will notice that i

have already given the sanskrit version of the Tamizh word '

subhavam' to 'swabhavam' ! READ THE LAST PARA, PL !

MY POST 29222

"THANK YOU RAM-JI „ BHAVAM should become Swabhavam- YES! OFFERING

PRAYERS TO THE LORD SHOULD BECOME OUR INNATURE NATURE NOT SECOND

NATURE) THAT WILL BE THE BEST ANUBHAVAM - OR WAY TO ATMANUBHAVAM!"

**********************************************************************

ON ANOTHER NOTE, Samskritam has many rules regarding Grammar... There

is the 'sandhi' factor

so, our Bhaskar prabhuji asks in his post number 29235

"svadharma, sva-iccha, svarUpa, svasTha..are some of other sanskrit

words. do you pronouce these words also like that prabhuji?? Just an

inquisitive question'

Hello, bhaskarji , i am not an expert on pronounciation although as

you have said there are always 'vernacular' pronounciations of a

sanskrit word! For example, bengalees call Puja -pujo and moksha -

moksho . and vasant ritu- basant ritu etc etc etc !

however bhaskar-ji, has mentioned the word ' sva-iccha' which should

really be *swecha* because when you co-join the letters 'a' and 'i'

it becomes 'e' !

REGARDS

-- In advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <ramvchandran>

wrote:

>

> Namaste Sri Bhaskar Prabhuji:

>

> The point that I tried to make in last posting is the Point that

the

> labeling such 'Jnana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga and Karma Yoga' is purely a

> human perception. The ultimate goal is to attain the 'Yagna spirit -

> conducting duties spontaenously and unselfishly with devotion and

> determination.' A Jnani perceives a Karma Yogi or Bhakta as a Jnani

and

> similarly a Bhakata perceives a Jnani as a True Bhakta! No analysis

is

> necessary and Sankara's Wisdom, his works and great devotion

> demonstrates truly that karma, Bhakti and jnana are integrated and

> inseparable!! A visistadavitan or a dvaitan recognizes Sankara as a

> great Bhakta. We the ordinary persons of the world admire him as

a

> Karma Yogi. The realized jnanis visualize Sankara as the Jnani.

>

> Regarding your second enquiry, my Tamil 'subhavam' has visualized

the

> Sanskrit word 'svabhavam' as 'subhavam.' This is one of the

> transiliteration anomoly and once again demonstrate the limitation

of

> writing the Sanskrit word using differentt language system!

>

> Warmest regards,

>

> Harih Om!

>

> Ram Chandran

>

> advaitin, bhaskar.yr@i... wrote:

> >

> > Yes prabhuji, this bhddhi being completely immersed in our

> bhagavadpAda's

> > teaching should realize neither karma nor anything else would

help us

> to

> > > bhaskar :

> >

> > is it *sva-bhAva* what you are referring above prabhuji?? I

think the

> > *Subhava* is the tamil based pronouniciation of sanskrit word

>

December 9, 2005