Bhakti and Jnana---------- WAVE 10 ...Baja Govindam !

[Guest guest]

Sri Mangesh Hoskote writes

 

(If Sri Adi Shankara himself who drank the ocean of gnyana as easily

as one sip water from the palm of one's hand, sang in his later

years, hymns to develop devotion, it is enough to show that gnyana

and bhakthi are one and the same. Sri Shankara has packed into the

Bhaja govindaM song: the substance of all vedanta, and set the

oneness of gnyana and bhakthi to melodious music.)

 

Thank you , kindly, Sir for this great quote from Chakravarthi ri

Rajagopachariyar , a great Vaishnava and a great Statesman . ( i

always admired his political acumen and wisdom. He reminded me of

Chanakya and Kautilya ! SMILE) Did you know that Rajaji went to the

same school as the other great mathematical genius Sri Ramanujam?

Thanks KuMbakonam for giving Bharata mata such knowledgeble

sons!

 

The 'Bhaja Govindam' song is also called 'Moha Mudgara' ! The word

moha, means `delusion' while mudgara means `hammer'. Together, Moha

Mudgara means the remover or destroyer of delusion. It is called so

because it deals a body blow to the excessive value we place on this

samsara that is the world !

 

When you have dark clouds covering the Sun, can you see the

luminosity, the splendor and the glory of the Sun?

 

and what is the root cause of 'ignorance' - it is 'Ego'

 

here is verse from Viveka chudamani explaining this

 

bhaanu-prabhaasaM janit'aabhrapaN^ktiH

bhaanuM tirodhaaya vijR^mbhate yathaa

aatm'odit'aahaM-kR^tir aatma-tattvaM

tathaa tirodhaaya vijR^mbhate svayam .. 142

 

As clouds produced (i.e. rendered visible) by the rays of the sun

manifest themselves by hiding the sun, so egotism arising through

connection with the \Atman manifests itself by hiding the real

character of the \Atman.

 

i love the Bhaja Govindam stotram - It is simple yet, it is profound.

There are verses that describe the many temptations that a spiritual

aspirant encounters in his/her 'sadhana' but the solution is always

to seek the lotus feet of Govinda ( the god and the guru) ... you see

the refrain 'Bhaja Govindam Bhaja Govindam Govindam Bhaja

Mudamate.' ...

 

It is said Adi Shankara composed this slokam while travelling with

his disciples in Kasi and he saw a pandit or a scholar memorizing the

Grammar Rules by repeating the word 'dumkrinkarane' BUT MISSED THE

MESSAGE HE WAS STUDYING! and it is then that Adi Shankara Bhagvada

pada burst into this spontaneous song

 

BHAJA GOVINDAM, BHAJA GOVINDAM

GOVINDAM BHAJA MUDHAMATE

SAMPRAAPTE SANNIHITE KALE

NA HI NA HI RAKSHATI DUKRINKARANE

 

Seek Govinda! Seek Govinda! Seek Govinda! Oh ignoramus, at the time

of death the rules of grammer, which you are trying to cram and

master, will not be able to rescue you at all.

(Grammer rules mean all secular knowledge and earthly acquistitions)

 

There is a similar verse in Vivekachudamani

 

vaag-vaikharii shabda-jharii shaastra-vyaakhyaan akaushalam

vaidushhyaM vidushhaaM tadvad bhuktaye na tu muktaye .. (58 )

 

In the same way, speech alone, even a deluge of words, with

scholarship and skill in commenting on the scriptures, may achieve

some personal satisfaction but not liberation. 58

 

So, 'bhavam' is very importat specially in 'bhakti' ... This is why

When M.S. subbalaxmi sings the Baja Govindam stotra, in her melodious

voice, we are transported to the realm of 'Golaka' itself!

 

We have all heard of the two terms 'Kaanch and Kaamini' - Kaanch

means 'Gold' and Kaamini means 'Women' - this is the literal meaning

but the esoteric meaning of Kaanch is 'material acquisitions' and

Kaamini Means 'sensual pleasures ' - This is what Sri Ramakrishna

advised - avoid 'kaanch and Kaamini'

 

NAAREE STHANABHARA NABHEEDESAM

DHRISHTWA MAA GAA MOHAVESAM

YETAN MAAMSAVASAADI VIKAARAM

MANASI VICHINTHAYA VAARAM VAARAM

(BHAJA GOVINDAM, BHAJA GOVINDAM..........)

 

Enticed by the physical glamour of a woman,( her breasts and Navel)

do not lose your senses; the body is nothing but a conglomeration of

flesh, do not forget this any time.

 

Nari only represents the 'object of the senses' and 'women' are only

one of the many 'seductions' in the material world . There are other

seductions -too ! The desire for fame, name , acquisition of wealth,

power etc are other temptations ....

 

Some of you may wonder how the same adi shankara who showered praises

on Sri Lalita devi's Sthanas ( breasts) and Nabhi ( navel) is now

critical of an ordinary woman's nabhi (navel) and sthanas ? (

breasts)!

 

A woman's breasts and navel are just a metaphor which our poet-

philosopher uses to convey deeper philosophical truths !

 

Read this verse 73 from Saundarya Lahari

 

Ama te vak sojav amratarasu -manikya- kutupau

na samedha-spanda nagapati-patake manasi nah;

pibantau tau yasmad avidita-vadhu-sangha-rasikau

kumarav adyapi Dvirada-vadaa -krauncha-dalanau

 

O the Mountain King's Flag of Victory! We have not even the shadow of

a doubt about thy two breasts being jars made of Manikya (ruby) and

filled with Amrta , the immortal drink. For , it is is by drinking

their contents that THY two sons , The mountain piercing Kumara and

the elephant headed Vinayaka , have rmained young boys ( celibates)

without knowing Woman, to this day!

 

( in south india , Ganesha is worshipped as a brahmachari and Kumara

is worshipped as a bramachari in north india - We do not know whther

these two deities have consorts ! but i adore them both all the same !

Siddhi-buddhi Vinayaka and Valli-devayanai Kathikeya)

 

In this verse . our beloved poet-philosopher is referring to

the 'milk of grace' ( jnana paal) flowing from devi's breasts that

enables one to use the discriminating intellect to distinguisn betwen

transitory pleasures and spiritual pursuits .

 

The entire Soundarya Lahari is a tantric text of Sri Vidya Upasana

where Devi's physical attributes like her Eyes , feet, face,

romavali, Breasts, Navel etc etc are praised to drive home some

spiritual truths!

 

In another verse in the Baja Govindam Stotra, Sri Adi Shankara

Bhagvadapada talks about 'vairagyam ( dispassion))and renunciation (

sanyasa)

 

 

~~~~~~~

MAA KURU DHANAJANAYOUVANAGARVAM

HARATI NIMESHAATKAALAH SARWAM

MAAYAAMAYAMIDAMAKHILAM HITHWA

BRAHMAPADAM TWAM PRAVISHA VIDITWA

(BHAJA GOVINDAM, BHAJA GOVINDAM..........)

 

The pleasures and riches of worldly life are deceptive appearances.

Understanding that they are all but a passing-show, be detached and

dispassionate, cultivate renunciation and seek Brahman

(11_)

 

In Verse 14 In the same stotram, one of adi shankara's disciple

adds this verse

 

JATILO MUNDI LUNCHITAKESHAH

KAASHAAYAAMBARA BAHUKRITAVESHAH

PASYANNAPI CHA NA PASYATI MOODHO

HIUDARANIMITAM BAHUKRITAVESHAH

(BHAJA GOVINDAM, BHAJA GOVINDAM........)

 

The ascetic with matted locks, the man with the shaven head or

one with hair pulled out, or the man parading in the ochre robes

-- they all have eyes but yet do not see. All these are but deceptions

for cheating the world, for filling their bellies. ( Renunciation

does not lie in external appearance, but in inward thought, attitude

and feeling).

 

Exactly, This is what true Renunciation is as described by our

respected Maharishi Sri sri Ramana bhagvan ---- 'giving up the non-

self is true renunciation' ................Be in the world but not of

the world!

 

SO, WHAT IS THE SOLUTION ?

 

TWAYI MAYI CHAANYATRAIKO VISHNUH

VYARTHAM KUPYASI MAYYASAHISHNUH

BHAVA SAMACHITTAH SARVATRA TWAM

VANCHHASYASHIRAADYADI VISHNUTWAM

(BHAJA GOVINDAM, BHAJA GOVINDAM........)(VERSE 24)

 

In you, in me and everywhere, there is but the one Vishnu, Mistakenly

viewing me with a sense of difference, you are ill-disposed towards

me.

Try to see in all beings only the Vishnu who is your own self. Give up

your false and egoistic sense of separateness from other beings.

Cultivate a sense of kinship, unity and oneness with all.

 

(WOW! Practice the precious vedantic Truth seeing the self as

Vishnu! )

 

Why Vishnu? The meaning of Vishnu is the one who pervades

Everything mobile and immobile (including time and space),

consequently He stands for the Lord's aspect that sustains

everything !

 

It is said a yogi never sleeps at night because he is alkways

meditating on the Lord ; a Bhoghi ( engrossed in sense enjoyment)

never sleeps at night because he is busy enjoying the sensual

pleasures of women at night and then there is the Roghi ( one who is

sick) who does not sleep at night because of pains from his bodily

afflictions ?

 

be a Yogi at all times in all the waking, sleeping, dream states!

for a yogi there is only one state - the state of 'jnana dhristi' (

eyes of knowledge)

 

Sri Jnanambikaye Namo Namaha!

 

(one of the names of Sri Lalita in LS - it is she who owed revealed

the knowledge of Brahman to all the devas in the Kena upanishads - a

story i quoted in my very first post)

 

ps - guys, my cataract surgery is schduled for the first week of

january - it is routine surgery since i have diabetic retinopathy as

well - i am a little worried- ... t but let me have the pleasure of

writing about the soulful compositions of Acharya -Overlook

the 'typos' and other errors ! just look at the 'bhava' and enjoy the

bliss of bhakti!)

 

Sri Mangesh Hoskote writes

 

(If Sri Adi Shankara himself who drank the ocean of gnyana as easily

as one sip water from the palm of one's hand, sang in his later

years, hymns to develop devotion, it is enough to show that gnyana

and bhakthi are one and the same. Sri Shankara has packed into the

Bhaja govindaM song: the substance of all vedanta, and set the

oneness of gnyana and bhakthi to melodious music.)

 

Thank you , kindly, Sir for this great quote from Chakravarthi ri

Rajagopachariyar , a great Vaishnava and a great Statesman . ( i

always admired his political acumen and wisdom. He reminded me of

Chanakya and Kautilya ! SMILE) Did you know that Rajaji went to the

same school as the other great mathematical genius Sri Ramanujam?

Thanks KuMbakonam for giving Bharata mata such knowledgeble

sons!

 

The 'Bhaja Govindam' song is also called 'Moha Mudgara' ! The word

moha, means `delusion' while mudgara means `hammer'. Together, Moha

Mudgara means the remover or destroyer of delusion. It is called so

because it deals a body blow to the excessive value we place on this

samsara that is the world !

 

When you have dark clouds covering the Sun, can you see the

luminosity, the splendor and the glory of the Sun?

 

and what is the root cause of 'ignorance' - it is 'Ego'

 

here is verse from Viveka chudamani explaining this

 

bhaanu-prabhaasaM janit'aabhrapaN^ktiH

bhaanuM tirodhaaya vijR^mbhate yathaa

aatm'odit'aahaM-kR^tir aatma-tattvaM

tathaa tirodhaaya vijR^mbhate svayam .. 142

 

As clouds produced (i.e. rendered visible) by the rays of the sun

manifest themselves by hiding the sun, so egotism arising through

connection with the \Atman manifests itself by hiding the real

character of the \Atman.

 

i love the Bhaja Govindam stotram - It is simple yet, it is profound.

There are verses that describe the many temptations that a spiritual

aspirant encounters in his/her 'sadhana' but the solution is always

to seek the lotus feet of Govinda ( the god and the guru) ... you see

the refrain 'Bhaja Govindam Bhaja Govindam Govindam Bhaja

Mudamate.' ...

 

It is said Adi Shankara composed this slokam while travelling with

his disciples in Kasi and he saw a pandit or a scholar memorizing the

Grammar Rules by repeating the word 'dumkrinkarane' BUT MISSED THE

MESSAGE HE WAS STUDYING! and it is then that Adi Shankara Bhagvada

pada burst into this spontaneous song

 

BHAJA GOVINDAM, BHAJA GOVINDAM

GOVINDAM BHAJA MUDHAMATE

SAMPRAAPTE SANNIHITE KALE

NA HI NA HI RAKSHATI DUKRINKARANE

 

Seek Govinda! Seek Govinda! Seek Govinda! Oh ignoramus, at the time

of death the rules of grammer, which you are trying to cram and

master, will not be able to rescue you at all.

(Grammer rules mean all secular knowledge and earthly acquistitions)

 

There is a similar verse in Vivekachudamani

 

vaag-vaikharii shabda-jharii shaastra-vyaakhyaan akaushalam

vaidushhyaM vidushhaaM tadvad bhuktaye na tu muktaye .. (58 )

 

In the same way, speech alone, even a deluge of words, with

scholarship and skill in commenting on the scriptures, may achieve

some personal satisfaction but not liberation. 58

 

So, 'bhavam' is very importat specially in 'bhakti' ... This is why

When M.S. subbalaxmi sings the Baja Govindam stotra, in her melodious

voice, we are transported to the realm of 'Golaka' itself!

 

We have all heard of the two terms 'Kaanch and Kaamini' - Kaanch

means 'Gold' and Kaamini means 'Women' - this is the literal meaning

but the esoteric meaning of Kaanch is 'material acquisitions' and

Kaamini Means 'sensual pleasures ' - This is what Sri Ramakrishna

advised - avoid 'kaanch and Kaamini'

 

NAAREE STHANABHARA NABHEEDESAM

DHRISHTWA MAA GAA MOHAVESAM

YETAN MAAMSAVASAADI VIKAARAM

MANASI VICHINTHAYA VAARAM VAARAM

(BHAJA GOVINDAM, BHAJA GOVINDAM..........)

 

Enticed by the physical glamour of a woman,( her breasts and Navel)

do not lose your senses; the body is nothing but a conglomeration of

flesh, do not forget this any time.

 

Nari only represents the 'object of the senses' and 'women' are only

one of the many 'seductions' in the material world . There are other

seductions -too ! The desire for fame, name , acquisition of wealth,

power etc are other temptations ....

 

Some of you may wonder how the same adi shankara who showered praises

on Sri Lalita devi's Sthanas ( breasts) and Nabhi ( navel) is now

critical of an ordinary woman's nabhi (navel) and sthanas ? (

breasts)!

 

A woman's breasts and navel are just a metaphor which our poet-

philosopher uses to convey deeper philosophical truths !

 

Read this verse 73 from Saundarya Lahari

 

Ama te vak sojav amratarasu -manikya- kutupau

na samedha-spanda nagapati-patake manasi nah;

pibantau tau yasmad avidita-vadhu-sangha-rasikau

kumarav adyapi Dvirada-vadaa -krauncha-dalanau

 

O the Mountain King's Flag of Victory! We have not even the shadow of

a doubt about thy two breasts being jars made of Manikya (ruby) and

filled with Amrta , the immortal drink. For , it is is by drinking

their contents that THY two sons , The mountain piercing Kumara and

the elephant headed Vinayaka , have rmained young boys ( celibates)

without knowing Woman, to this day!

 

( in south india , Ganesha is worshipped as a brahmachari and Kumara

is worshipped as a bramachari in north india - We do not know whther

these two deities have consorts ! but i adore them both all the same !

Siddhi-buddhi Vinayaka and Valli-devayanai Kathikeya)

 

In this verse . our beloved poet-philosopher is referring to

the 'milk of grace' ( jnana paal) flowing from devi's breasts that

enables one to use the discriminating intellect to distinguisn betwen

transitory pleasures and spiritual pursuits .

 

The entire Soundarya Lahari is a tantric text of Sri Vidya Upasana

where Devi's physical attributes like her Eyes , feet, face,

romavali, Breasts, Navel etc etc are praised to drive home some

spiritual truths!

 

In another verse in the Baja Govindam Stotra, Sri Adi Shankara

Bhagvadapada talks about 'vairagyam ( dispassion))and renunciation (

sanyasa)

 

 

~~~~~~~

MAA KURU DHANAJANAYOUVANAGARVAM

HARATI NIMESHAATKAALAH SARWAM

MAAYAAMAYAMIDAMAKHILAM HITHWA

BRAHMAPADAM TWAM PRAVISHA VIDITWA

(BHAJA GOVINDAM, BHAJA GOVINDAM..........)

 

The pleasures and riches of worldly life are deceptive appearances.

Understanding that they are all but a passing-show, be detached and

dispassionate, cultivate renunciation and seek Brahman

(11_)

 

In Verse 14 In the same stotram, one of adi shankara's disciple

adds this verse

 

JATILO MUNDI LUNCHITAKESHAH

KAASHAAYAAMBARA BAHUKRITAVESHAH

PASYANNAPI CHA NA PASYATI MOODHO

HIUDARANIMITAM BAHUKRITAVESHAH

(BHAJA GOVINDAM, BHAJA GOVINDAM........)

 

The ascetic with matted locks, the man with the shaven head or

one with hair pulled out, or the man parading in the ochre robes

-- they all have eyes but yet do not see. All these are but deceptions

for cheating the world, for filling their bellies. ( Renunciation

does not lie in external appearance, but in inward thought, attitude

and feeling).

 

Exactly, This is what true Renunciation is as described by our

respected Maharishi Sri sri Ramana bhagvan ---- 'giving up the non-

self is true renunciation' ................Be in the world but not of

the world!

 

SO, WHAT IS THE SOLUTION ?

 

TWAYI MAYI CHAANYATRAIKO VISHNUH

VYARTHAM KUPYASI MAYYASAHISHNUH

BHAVA SAMACHITTAH SARVATRA TWAM

VANCHHASYASHIRAADYADI VISHNUTWAM

(BHAJA GOVINDAM, BHAJA GOVINDAM........)(VERSE 24)

 

In you, in me and everywhere, there is but the one Vishnu, Mistakenly

viewing me with a sense of difference, you are ill-disposed towards

me.

Try to see in all beings only the Vishnu who is your own self. Give up

your false and egoistic sense of separateness from other beings.

Cultivate a sense of kinship, unity and oneness with all.

 

(WOW! Practice the precious vedantic Truth seeing the self as

Vishnu! )

 

Why Vishnu? The meaning of Vishnu is the one who pervades

Everything mobile and immobile (including time and space),

consequently He stands for the Lord's aspect that sustains

everything !

 

It is said a yogi never sleeps at night because he is alkways

meditating on the Lord ; a Bhoghi ( engrossed in sense enjoyment)

never sleeps at night because he is busy enjoying the sensual

pleasures of women at night and then there is the Roghi ( one who is

sick) who does not sleep at night because of pains from his bodily

afflictions ?

 

be a Yogi at all times in all the waking, sleeping, dream states!

for a yogi there is only one state - the state of 'jnana dhristi' (

eyes of knowledge)

 

Sri Jnanambikaye Namo Namaha!

 

(one of the names of Sri Lalita in LS - it is she who owed revealed

the knowledge of Brahman to all the devas in the Kena upanishads - a

story i quoted in my very first post)

 

ps - guys, my cataract surgery is schduled for the first week of

january but let me have the pleasure of writing about the soulful

compositions of Acharya -Overlook the 'typos' and other errors ! just

look at the 'bhava' and enjoy the bliss of bhakti!)

 

Sukha prappti lies in seeking the Lord as 'self' within and dukha

nivrutti lies in avoiding the worldly temptations of 'Kaanch and

Kaamini'

 

Divinity is within!

 

Salutations to Guru and Govinda!

[Guest guest]

i apologize!

 

Parts of the same message appeared twice! This is 'duality' indeed!

Our beloved Sankaraman's post appearing 'twice'! my message

appearing 'twice' in the same post! i guess our beloved adi shankara

Bhagvadapada is sending us a powerful message here !

 

Did i read someone saying

 

'Since creation is negatable, the creator also stands

 

negatable and therefore Iswara himself is only a

concept as long as there is a concept of creation. '

 

is Iswara only a concept ?

 

can we negate the creator and the creation ?

 

i am sorry i am at a loss of words here !

 

i thought we are discussing 'sanatana dharma ' here ! does

not 'sanatana' mean eternal ? i thought in advaita everything

is 'eternal'! If all is 'brahman' - by deductive logic, concepts (

such as Iswara) is also eternal! Brahman is Iashwara ! Even to

say 'Brahman' IS without attributes is Not correct - That is also a

description of an indescribale Brahman!

 

there are too many 'knots' in our thinking and these 'granthis' have

to be removed before we even discuss Adi shankara bhasya's Granthas

and Bhasyas !

 

one of the names of sri lalita is

 

Vishnu granti Sri Visnu-granthi-vibhedini

 

— Cuts Knot of Sri Vishnu; devotee perceives unreality of

individuality.

 

May all our 'individuality' vanish; may our ego be crushed to

pieces ; may our ignorance be swept away !

 

Let us see 'vishnu' in Brahman and 'Brahman in Vishnu'

 

BraHman is derived from the root word'brih' which means to expand !

May the all pervading Vishnu expand our 'consciousness ' !

 

my 'sabari' mind (simplistic) kind of resonates with with sri

Nilakantan's post wherein he quotes nIlakaNtha dIkShita:

 

"The effort of learning the scriptures yields merely the ability to

juggle seven or eight words like brahman, shakti, remover of bondage

(bandha vimochanI), all-pervading mAyA, Consort of the destroyer of

KAma', etc."

 

"brahmEti shaktiriti bandhavimocanIti

mAyAmayIti madanAtaka vllabhEti |

saptAShTa shabda parivartana mAtrayEva

sAmarthyamAvahati shAstraparishramOyaM ||"

(AnandasAgarastvah. 11)

 

Wow! Hats off to you! THANX!

 

when even someone calls Bhagvan's Temple Murti as 'idol' , my

devotee heart weeps ! Do these people even know the meaning of 'Prana

Pratishta' ?

 

"The Prana Pratishta ritual aims at bringing the unmanifest nirguna

Brahman to a manifest form in the murti, giving energy and

attributes, fit for worship and endowed with divine powers. This is

accomplished by the power of the mantras recited by the competent

priest with the conduct of the rituals as per the agamas."

 

I REPRODUCE HERE THIS MESSAGE FROM MY GROUP BRAHMANSHAKTI

 

 

THE HINDU TEMPLES ARE BUILT AS REPLICAS OF THE HUMAN BODY. (THE

ARCHITECTURE )

 

IN FACT, the names of the various areas of the temple are the named

after the different parts of the human body according to an ancient

tantrik text called " viswakarmeeya."

 

ALSO, WHILE CONSTRUCTING THE 'TEMPLE' , the 'vaastu experts have

brrowed from hindu yoga philosophy.

 

" human organism has a subtle invisible body besides the visible

gross body, called by the Yogis the physical sheath. Encased in it,

is the subtle body with its four sheaths, arranged in concentric

order. Immediately inside the physical sheath, is the vital sheath;

then the mental, the cognital and the blissful, each one inside the

other. Thus, according to the Yoga literature, the human body, when

viewed laterally, has five sheaths including the physical."

(PATANJALI)

 

All these five are represented by different enclosures or spaces in

temples constructed according to Tantrik formulae.

 

The outermost one, called `Bahyahara' is between the outermost wall

of the temple precincts and the first circumambulatory passage. This

space represents the physical sheath.

 

Lying between this passage and the array of lamp holdings, is the

Madhyahara' or the middle enclosure. It represents the vital sheath.

The sacrificial stone or altar is installed in this enclosure. The

devotee is expected to sacrifice his `ego' at this altar.

 

The Madhyahara leads into the space called `Anthahara' or inner

enclosure, representing the mental sheath. It will have verandas on

all the four sides for keeping the objects of worship and

offertories. This is quite symbolic as worship essentially should

originate in mind.

 

Then is the cognital sheath, represented by the space between the

third enclosure and the passage for going round the sanctum. It is

named the `Antarmandala', the intermediary space. It is here, that

the platform for prostration, is built. The scriptures are recited

sitting on this forum.

 

Beyond this, is the innermost space called the Sanctum or `Srikovil'.

It represents the `blissful sheath'. Technically, its name is

Garbhagriha (WOMB CHAMbER) It is named so, precisely because it

protects the Deity installed therein, as the womb preserves the

foetus. "

 

(From group Brahmanshakti)

 

THIS HUMAN BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE DIVINE.

 

As Adi Shankara has pointed out in Viveka chudamani we are lucky to

be blessed with this Human birth and if we cannot use this 'body' to

sing the praises of the Divne PARAMATMA, what use is this Jivatma ?

 

Ok! I CAN UNDERSTAND! advaitins do not like doing external acts of

worship to an Idol in a temple ! but how about doing 'manasika puja'

as recommended by Adi Shankara in famous "mantra

maatrukaapushhpamaalaa" ? This manasika puja is repeated in many of

his compositions - Sivananda Lahari , Soundarya lahari and even In

Subramanya bhujangham! !

 

In Sivaaparaadha Kshamaapana Stotra (15th sloka), Adi shankara states

 

 

Ayurnasyati pasyataam pratidinam yaati kshayam youvvanam

Pratyaayaanti gataah punarna divasaah, kaalo jagadbhakshakah

Lakshmistoya taranga bhangi chapalaa, vidyutchalam jivitam

Tasmaanmaam saranaagatam karunayaa tvam raksha rakshaadhuna.

 

 

Day by day, life ebbs away before our eyes as we look on;

youthfulness declines; days passed do never return; time devours

worlds; wealth is fickle like the ripple on the wavelets of water;

life is fleeing like lightning. Therefore, oh Lord! Protect now with

your grace; seeking refuge in you.

 

Harih Aum!

[Guest guest]

Dear AdiMa,

 

advaitin, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16>

wrote:

> Did i read someone saying

>

> 'Since creation is negatable, the creator also stands

> negatable and therefore Iswara himself is only a

> concept as long as there is a concept of creation.'

>

> is Iswara only a concept ?

>

> can we negate the creator and the creation?

>

> i am sorry i am at a loss of words here!

>

> i thought we are discussing 'sanatana dharma' here!

> does not 'sanatana' mean eternal? i thought in advaita

> everything is 'eternal'! If all is 'brahman' - by

> deductive logic, concepts (such as Iswara) is also

> eternal! Brahman is Ishwara! Even to say 'Brahman'

> IS without attributes is Not correct - That is also a

> description of an indescribale Brahman!

>

> there are too many 'knots' in our thinking and these

> 'granthis' have to be removed before we even discuss

> Adi shankara bhasya's Granthas and Bhasyas!

 

 

Wow, AdiMa! You took my breath away with these words!

 

You are brilliantly and radiantly and fully right, the Creator is

never negatable. Never!

 

The drama may be negatable, but the actor in the drama is not

negatable. The actorship may be negatable, but the person acting is

not different than the actor - even after the drama is over. Ishvara

is same as Brahman.

 

And someone said that Ishvara is a matter of blind faith. And then

the following thoughts came into my mind: If Ishvara is negatable, if

jiva is negatable, if the world is negatable, then why, o why, is the

statement that 'Ishvara is negatable' not negatable? Has not logic

gone for a ride here? And in the absence of logic, does this

statement not reduce to blind faith? And standing on such blind faith

can we confidently and logically assert that Ishvara is a matter of

blind faith? There is a sadness in all our (deliberated) assertions,

but such are the bricks that adhyaropa is made of.

 

I won't be able to join in these discussions now, but I wanted to

tell you that are doing great! :-)

 

Warm regards,

Chittaranjan

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16>

wrote:

>

>

> Did i read someone saying

>

Namaste Adimaji:

 

Let me join Sri Chittha to congratulate you for making the statement

of the day! Let me thank Sri Chittha for his beautiful assertion on

the existence of Isvara. That is brilliant.

 

In everyone of your recent posts, you have made some excellent

observations along with bunch of unnecessary and unrelated materials

that have nothing to do with your point of contention. If need to

drink a glass of milk, we will not dilute the milk with a bottle of

water. Even when we add 'sugar in milk' even then we don't want to

add too much of sugar!

 

We don't do that because, such an act removes the pure taste of

milk. I know that truly want to improve your presentation of

materials in the list and please contemplate on what I have suggested

here. Bhagawan Sri Krishna wants us to use our intellect (buddhi) to

discriminate between 'water' and 'milk' and make use of them

appropriattely. When milk and water are mixed, separating them is

rather difficult. Since most of the members are only interested in

the 'pure milk' should we not only give them only milk?

 

Please think about it,

 

Warmest regards,

 

Harih Om!

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

 

 

> 'Since creation is negatable, the creator also stands

>

> negatable and therefore Iswara himself is only a

> concept as long as there is a concept of creation. '

>

> is Iswara only a concept ?

>

> can we negate the creator and the creation ?

>

> i am sorry i am at a loss of words here !

>

> i thought we are discussing 'sanatana dharma ' here ! does

> not 'sanatana' mean eternal ? i thought in advaita everything

> is 'eternal'! If all is 'brahman' - by deductive logic, concepts (

> such as Iswara) is also eternal! Brahman is Iashwara ! Even to

> say 'Brahman' IS without attributes is Not correct - That is also a

> description of an indescribale Brahman!

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Ram Chandran-ji,

 

advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <ramvchandran>

wrote:

> Let me join Sri Chittha to congratulate you for making the

> statement of the day! Let me thank Sri Chittha for his

> beautiful assertion on the existence of Isvara. That is

> brilliant.

 

Thank you Sir.

> In everyone of your recent posts, you have made some excellent

> observations along with bunch of unnecessary and unrelated

> materials that have nothing to do with your point of contention.

> If need to drink a glass of milk, we will not dilute the milk

> with a bottle of water. Even when we add 'sugar in milk' even

> then we don't want to add too much of sugar!

>

> We don't do that because, such an act removes the pure taste

> of milk. I know that truly want to improve your presentation

> of materials in the list and please contemplate on what I

> have suggested here. Bhagawan Sri Krishna wants us to use

> our intellect (buddhi) to discriminate between 'water' and

> 'milk' and make use of them appropriattely. When milk and

> water are mixed, separating them is rather difficult. Since

> most of the members are only interested in the 'pure milk'

> should we not only give them only milk?

>

> Please think about it,

 

 

There are three ways in which scriptural truths are spoken about. The

first way is called 'Prabhu Sammiti'. It is spoken from a position of

authority, in such a way that it may not be questioned. The Vedas are

like this. The second way is called 'Suhritsammiti'. It is spoken

like a good-hearted friend would speak, softly, lightly, making it

easy to absorb the truth. The Smriti is like this. The third is

called 'Kantaa sammiti'. It is spoken life a loving wife would speak

to her husband. Speaking scriptural truths through kavya or poetry is

like this. The Paramacharya says: "In order to bring round a

recalcitrant husband, the wife quips, cajoles, humours, entreats and

does everything to gain her point with him." Similarly, the poet

weaves stories into the messages of the scriptures to make them

interesting, embellishing simple facts with glorious and colourful

patterns rather than present them in a straightforward way.

 

If this discussion topic were being led by someone else other than

AdiMa and she were to write more than is necessary I would fully

agree with your remarks. But since AdiMa is leading it, I feel that

she should be given the license to present the topic with interesting

details and emebellishments. Just some of my thoughts on this matter.

 

Warm regards,

Chittaranjan