consciousness and creation

[Guest guest]

OM TAT SAT

Humble Pranams to all Advaitins ! I am quoting a small extract from an

interview with Dr Amit Goswami (a quantum physicist at Universit of ORegon).

Needless to say, his answers are fascinating. (AG stands for Amit Goswami)

 

Question: This brings to mind the subtitle of your book, How Consciousness

Creates the Material World. This is obviously quite a radical idea. Could you

explain a bit more concretely how this actually happens in your opinion?

 

AG: Actually, it's the easiest thing to explain, because in quantum physics, as

I said earlier, objects are not seen as definite things, as we are used to

seeing them. Newton taught us that objects are definite things, they can be

seen all the time, moving in definite trajectories. Quantum physics doesn't

depict objects that way at all. In quantum physics, objects are seen as

possibilities, possibility waves. Right? So then the question arises, what

converts possibility into actuality? Because, when we see, we only see actual

events. That's starting with us. When you see a chair, you see an actual chair,

you don't see a possible chair.

 

Question: Right—I hope so.

 

AG: We all hope so. Now this is called the "quantum measurement paradox." It is

a paradox because who are we to do this conversion? Because after all, in the

materialist paradigm we don't have any causal efficacy. We are nothing but the

brain, which is made up of atoms and elementary particles. So how can a brain

which is made up of atoms and elementary particles convert a possibility wave

that it itself is? It itself is made up of the possibility waves of atoms and

elementary particles, so it cannot convert its own possibility wave into

actuality. This is called a paradox. Now in the new view, consciousness is the

ground of being. So who converts possibility into actuality? Consciousness

does, because consciousness does not obey quantum physics. Consciousness is not

made of material. Consciousness is transcendent. Do you see the

paradigm-changing view right here—how consciousness can be said to create the

material world? The material world of quantum physics is just possibility. It

is consciousness, through the conversion of possibility into actuality, that

creates what we see manifest. In other words, consciousness creates the

manifest world.

 

(You can read the full interview at http://www.wie.org/j11/goswami.asp?page=1

 

 

OM TAT SAT

 

 

 

________

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[Guest guest]

Brhamrpanam Brahmavir

 

Sounds nice to address -May be you can shorten it to Sarvam Brahman.

 

There is fallacy in Dr. Amit Goswami's arguments.

 

1. First, there is a problem of the definition of actuality. Actuality

is itself determined by the conscious entity.

 

2. The wavelength depends on the mass of the body. With increase in

mass, the wavelength itself decreases and becomes far less than the

dimensions of the objects that you are quantifying.

 

3. Senses by which the object is perceived are attributes of the object

rather than substantive of the object.

 

4. The brain is only picturising the object by an internal image. The

perception of an object out there - such as a chair out there - involves

the perception of the attributes of the chair through the senses,

integration of the sense input by the mind by localization of the

attributes to the image of the object - cognition of the object by the

cognition of the image in the mind and recognition of the object by

comparison with the information in the memory. There are no probability

waves here to perceive.

 

5. Conscious does not materialize the object either - according to

Vedanta - it cannot do 'anything'- akartaa and abhoktaa.

 

6. Vedanta is very careful in explaining the 'unexplainable'. In the

presence of consciousness, it appears to be materialized. This is

different from materialization of object.

 

7. Amit Gosh does not have a mechanism for how a consciousness

materializes the probabilities to actualities. Are probabilities

'matter' or non-matter'. Is consciousness a 'matter' or non-matter'. If

both are non-matter - how does non-mater becomes into matter by process

of actuality. If consciousness is matter, he has bigger problem. If

probabilities are matter, he will have even bigger problem.

 

8. The fundamental problem is concepts of anaatma cannot be used to

establish aatma.

 

9. What he is actually pointing out is that physics has fundamental

problem in defining the ultimate matter.

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

 

 

 

 

--- Brahmarpanam Brahmhavir <mahadevadvaita wrote:

> OM TAT SAT

> Humble Pranams to all Advaitins ! I am quoting a small extract from an

> interview with Dr Amit Goswami (a quantum physicist at Universit of

> ORegon).

> Needless to

[Guest guest]

advaitin, kuntimaddi sadananda

<kuntimaddisada> wrote:

>

> >

> 8. The fundamental problem is concepts of anaatma cannot be used to

> establish aatma.

>

> 9. What he is actually pointing out is that physics has fundamental

> problem in defining the ultimate matter.

>

> Hari OM!

> Sadananda

>

>

 

Namste Sadananda-Ji:

 

You have summarized correctly. For this reason our vedic sages

encompassed theses thoughts elegantly in the "puruSha suukta"

 

"atya tiShTat dashaa.ngulam puruSha e vedamsarvam yad bhuutam yaccya

bhavyam"

 

The puruSha is beyond all the conventional means of

perceptions "dashendriya" (karmedriya and j~naedraya) and has the

knowledge from past, present and the future.

 

Again this confirms why our suukta were called suukta. (su + ukta -

well said or something that cannot be said better than expressed

there within the context.)

 

The defination of puruSha also helps us understand this - puri shete

iti puruShaH

 

Meaning - The one who is latently sleeping in a given body.

 

puuShu sarvaaShu shete.asau saaxitveneti puruShaH

 

Thank you for the series on Karma Yoga POstings.

 

Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

[Guest guest]

kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote: Brhamrpanam

Brahmavir

 

Sounds nice to address -May be you can shorten it to Sarvam Brahman.

 

There is fallacy in Dr. Amit Goswami's arguments.

 

From

Sankarraman

 

The empirical science cannot fathom the mystery of

consciousness. The brain is only a part of the body, itself a manifestation of

consciousness. All the vasanas stored in the mind are materialized through the

help of the body and the brain, both these things existing in time and space,

whereas the consciousness exists in its own right unmediated by any adjuncts.

Vedantic theory of perception is postulated only from the limited context of

admitting the reality of the world at some level. The true position seems to be

that everything is only a manifestation of the one consciousness, various

instruments being provided for perception which are also appearances in

consciousness, all external things being bereft of sentience. Explaining

perception of the world through the brain is only an externalized phenomenon.

When one Swamy Madhavathirtha explained the theory of relativity to Bhaghavan

Ramana saying that the perceptions are different for

different observers, Bhaghavan Ramana quipped saying that there was only one

observer.

 

with regards

Sankarraman

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Brahmarpanam Brahmhavir-ji,

 

advaitin, Brahmarpanam Brahmhavir

<mahadevadvaita> wrote:

> AG: We all hope so. Now this is called the "quantum

> measurement paradox." It is a paradox because who are

> we to do this conversion? Because after all, in the

> materialist paradigm we don't have any causal efficacy.

> We are nothing but the brain, which is made up of atoms

> and elementary particles. So how can a brain which is

> made up of atoms and elementary particles convert a

> possibility wave that it itself is? It itself is made

> up of the possibility waves of atoms and elementary

> particles, so it cannot convert its own possibility wave

> into actuality. This is called a paradox. Now in the new

> view, consciousness is the ground of being. So who converts

> possibility into actuality? Consciousness does, because

> consciousness does not obey quantum physics.

 

 

It is heartening to see that there is a move by scientists to accept

Consciousness as the Ground of Being. Of course one doesn't need

Quantum Physics to come to this conclusion, it can be done by logic

alone. Dr Amit Goswami is essentially pointing out the circularity of

argument (paradox) that would result if we hold on to the idea that

the perception of the actuality of objects is produced by the brain.

This problem of logical circularity is the same problem that I had

pointed out in my article which you may find at:

 

www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/chittaranjan/brain_chittaranjan.htm

 

And lastly, I am sure that all of us (here) will agree that we are

not the brain, that we are that very Consciousness which manifests

the brain.

 

Warm regards,

Chittaranjan