Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Dear Advaitins, Namaste, I am hearing the lectures given by H.H. Swami Paramarthananda Saraswati on Brahma Sutras based on Sri Shakara Bhashya. There he tells that the transaltion of satchidananda into existence,knowlege and bliss is not correct. He says that it should be translated as Existence, Knowledge and Infinity. I am quite agreeable to his explanation that all the bliss experienced including the mystical happiness comes under the perview of the anandamaya kosa. This doubt i had in mind earlier also. If there is total cessation of all the mental qualities how can there be chance of experiencing bliss which he also reiterated. But in some books i read that it should be taken as indivisible satchidananda and ananda should not be taken as an attribute but the very nature of the self. I feel this explanation is not quite satisfactory. He also gives another interesting point that if we translate the ananda into happiness in the strict sense one has to plunge onself into samadhi to experience joy and this his swamiji says that it is one of the biggest mistake. If we take the translation as infinate all these contradictory explanations is resolved. And he opines that if it is translated as infinate it also means that we are that already. Which is reiteration of Tat Twam Asi. and we need not to try for it. But my question is can it be gramatically proved. Because it is the first time i am hearing this explanation and as far as my exposure to the books on advaita philosophy is concerned nowhere i have found this translation. Can anybody help in this regard? HARI OM TAT SAT, Yours in the Lord, Br. Vinayaka. ________ DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Ref post 29698 Br Vns: You might have heard this the first time but it is nothing new. Have you not heard of the statement from Taittriya Upanishad where Brahman is described as Satyam Jnanam Anantam Brahman Brahman is of the nature of Truth, Knowledge and Infinity. Satchidananda means -Truth-Consciousness-Bliss. This truth is Brahman which is Infinite ( Anantam- no end) and therefore it is full of bliss and consciousness. This is the Eternal truth. The oft quoted Shanti Matra from the upanishads also reiterates the Infinity of Brahman. purnamadah purnamidam purnaat purnamudachyate purnasya purnaamadaya purnameva vashishyate What is Purma ? That which is complete and also infinite. Om Shanti! Om Shanti! Om Shantihi! PS >> If we take the translation as infinate all these > contradictory explanations is resolved. And he opines > that if it is translated as infinate it also means > that we are that already. Which is reiteration of Tat > Twam Asi. and we need not to try for it. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 --- Purusha <purush_artha wrote: > Ref post 29698 > > Satyam Jnanam Anantam Brahman > > Brahman is of the nature of Truth, Knowledge and > Infinity. > > Satchidananda means -Truth-Consciousness-Bliss. > > This truth is Brahman which is Infinite ( Anantam- > no end) and > therefore it is full of bliss and consciousness. Dear Sir, Ofcourse yes i have heard the aforementioned mantra anantam is infinity no doubt. But Swami Paramarthanandaji tells that ananda should not be translated into bliss and it should be translated as infinaty i am specifially asking my doubt regarding this. Can you make the aformentioned quote of yours little more clear? why bliss should be the product of infinity? There is an upanishadic statement which says bhooma sukham (wordings are incorrect probably) the meaning is that which is infinite alone produces happiness.But the question is if we take bliss again the question of experiencer and the experienced will come which comes under the perview of duality. HARI OM TAT SAT Yours in the lord, Br. Vinayaka ________ DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 advaitin, br_vinayaka <vinayaka_ns> wrote: > > why bliss should be the product of > infinity? There is an upanishadic statement which says > bhooma sukham (wordings are incorrect probably) the > meaning is that which is infinite alone produces > happiness.But the question is if we take bliss again > the question of experiencer and the experienced will > come which comes under the perview of duality. Namaste, The following passages (Sw. K.'s excellent commentary not included) may answer the question. http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/chhand/ch_3e.html The Chhandogya Upanishad by Swami Krishnananda The Divine Life Society Sivananda Ashram, Rishikesh, India CHAPTER THREE SANATKUMARA'S INSTRUCTIONS ON BHUMA-VIDYA Section 22 Happiness 1. Yada vai sukham labhate'tha karoti, nasukham labdhva karoli, sukham eva labdhva karoti, sukham tveva vijijnasitavyam, iti, sukham, bhagavah, vijijnasa iti. "Well, O Narada, I tell you, nothing can be done unless it is propelled by happiness. Everywhere you will find happiness is the object of every kind of aspiration, activity, desire or enterprise. You will find, prior to everything conceivable, there is the presence of happiness. Everyone, irrespective of the character of one's individuality, tries to be, to act and to conduct oneself in different ways, because of this happiness. You must know what happiness is. It is this that is the propelling force behind everything in creation," Section 23 The Infinite 1. Yo vai bhuma tat sukham, nalpe sukham asti, bhumaiva sukham, bhuma tveva vijijnasitavya iti, bhumanam, bagavah, vijijnasa iti. "Happiness is plenum, happiness is completeness, happiness is the totality, happiness is in the Absolute," Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Purusha <purush_artha wrote: Ref post 29698 Br Vns: You might have heard this the first time but it is nothing new. Have you not heard of the statement from Taittriya Upanishad where Brahman is described as Satyam Jnanam Anantam Brahman ---------------------- Where does this "Satyam Jnanam Anantham" comes in Taitriya Upanishad? Shikshavalli?/Nrayanavali?/Anandavalli?--can you please post the original text reference? Please verify in which Upanishad it is stated(seeds of Advaitha Philosophy)futher nurtured by Acharyas Gouda Bhagavad Paatha/Govinda Bhagavad Paadha and further expanded by Acharya sri Sankara Bhagavad Pataha--- "Satyam,Gjnaanam,Anantam,Nityam,Mana Aakasam,Paramaakasam-Gosta Braangana,Reengana,Lolamana Aayasam,Paramaayasam"-Acharya Sankara's verse has double meaning-Rajagpalan Religion and spirituality Advaita Bhagavad gita Visit your group "advaitin" on the web. advaitin Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 ref post 29717 Pranams SSRVJ: You ask: (Where does this "Satyam Jnanam Anantham" comes in Taitriya Upanishad? Shikshavalli?/Nrayanavali?/Anandavalli?--can you please post the original text reference?) This verse is from Taittriya upanishad, Chapter II, verse 2 - Anandavalli - Brahmanandavalli. Here is the sanskrit version "Satyam Jnanamanantam Brahma. Yo veda nihitam guhayam Parame Vyoman. Soshnute sarvan kaman saha Brahmana Vipashchiteti"( Taittriya up - II,2) One who realises Brahman attains the Supreme. For it is declared that Brahman is Existence, Knowledge and Infinite. He who finds Brahman within the secret recesses of his own heart will have no further want as he will have attained everything. Anandam is also Anantam and What is Anantam is also Ananda. Bliss and Infinite are thus coexistent. That is the nature of Brahman. As for the second part of your question, I do not have the answer although I recognize the lines Your version: "Satyam,Gjnaanam,Anantam,Nityam,Mana Aakasam,Paramaakasam-Gosta Braangana,Reengana,Lolamana Aayasam,Paramaayasam" These lines are from Shankara's Govindashtakam Satyam gnanamanantam nityamanaakaasam paramaakaasam goshThapraangaNaringkhaNalolamanaayaasam paramaayaasam maayaakalpitanaanaakaaram bhuvanaakaaram kshmaamaa naathamanaatham praNamata govindam paramaanandam Worship Govinda who is supreme bliss, real, knowledge, infinite, and eternal, who is free from Ákása (and other upádhis), who is the highest light, who was eager as a child to crawl in the cow-pen, who is really free from difficulties, but who appears to be in difficulties (or who is the abode of máyá, cause of all), who appears manifold due to máyá, who appears as the world, who is the Lord of the earth and Sri, and who has no Lord to control him. Explain the double meaning. Regards PS advaitin, Rajagopalan Somayaji <ssrvj> wrote: > > Where does this "Satyam Jnanam Anantham" comes in Taitriya Upanishad? Shikshavalli?/Nrayanavali?/Anandavalli?--can you please post the original text reference? Please verify in which Upanishad it is stated(seeds of Advaitha Philosophy)futher nurtured by Acharyas Gouda Bhagavad Paatha/Govinda Bhagavad Paadha and further expanded by Acharya sri Sankara Bhagavad Pataha--- "Satyam,Gjnaanam,Anantam,Nityam,Mana Aakasam,Paramaakasam-Gosta Braangana,Reengana,Lolamana Aayasam,Paramaayasam"-Acharya Sankara's verse has double meaning-Rajagpalan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 > ref post 29717 > > Here is the sanskrit version > > "Satyam Jnanamanantam Brahma. Yo veda nihitam > guhayam Parame Vyoman. > Soshnute sarvan kaman saha Brahmana Vipashchiteti"( > Taittriya up - > II,2) > > One who realises Brahman attains the > Supreme. For it is > declared that Brahman is Existence, > Knowledge and > Infinite. He who finds Brahman within the > secret recesses > of his own heart will have no further > want as > he will have attained everything. > > Anandam is also Anantam and What is Anantam is also > Ananda. Bliss > and Infinite are thus coexistent. That is the nature > of Brahman. Dear Purusha Ji, Namaste, Your interpretation of the upanishadik statement is true. But only one objection one raised is as to anantam=ananda. Swami Praramarthanandaji quotes his guru's words ( Swami Dayananda Saraswati) who tells that this is the biggest mistake that has been committed. He says ananda shabda related to atman should be translated as infinitude or wholeness and should not be translated as bliss. I came across Swami Vivekananda's words in this matter who was foremost to deliver discourses in english. He says that i am translating ananda into bliss because of constraint due to which exact translation is not possible. He says that nearest meaning would be eternal consiousness which is nothing but the infinite self. There is a blurred but a very significant differentiation. HARI OM TAT SAT Yours in the Lord, Br. Vinayaka. ________ DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 ref post 29721 Pranams Br. Vns: This is not my interpretation. This verse 'Satyam Jnanam Anantam Brahman' is taken from Taittriya Upanishad ( chapter II, verse 2) . This chapter is called Anandavalli. In the same Upanishad ( Taittriya) in Bhriguvalli, Brahman is 'Bliss' or Anandam. ( III-6). There is an interesting story in this chapter where Sage Varuna gives spiritual instructions to his Son, Bhrighu regarding the five koshas and asks him to do 'tapas' with the words 'Tapo Brahmaethi'. At the end of meditation session, Bhrigu would ask his father 'Is Annam (food) brahman' ? Is 'Prana' ( life force) Brahman ? Is 'manas' (thought) Bhraman? 'Is 'Vignana' ( intelligence) Brahman? etc. But his father Varuna would always tell his son to go and practice contemplation more with the same words' 'Tapo Brahmaethi'. One day , Bhrighu did not come back to his father with any questions. That day, Varuna approached his son who was sitting in a meditative pose, so blissful and so radiant , so luminous - the face of a Brahma jnani . Thus, Bhrighu realized that 'Bliss is Brahman' ( anandam). For a Brahma-jnani ( which includes all the self-realized Swamis) the fountain of joy is in the cavity of the heart. That is the Joy of realizing the Infinite, which is the Self. One who has realized the ultimate truth is always Blissful. In the same Upanishad, Brahman is defined as 'Satyam Jnanam Anantam Brahman' ( II-2) and ' Brahman is Anandam' ( iii-6) Swami chinamayananda quotes this verse while describing the Bliss of Brahman- What is Anantam is also Anandam. Regards PS advaitin, br_vinayaka <vinayaka_ns> wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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