Vicarious Atonement

[Guest guest]

Dear Advaitins,

 

Namaste,

 

Follwoing is the explanation given by Swami Saradanandaji in his

monumental work Sri Ramakrishna: The Great Master.

 

 

The incarnations and the Power of Attorney

 

Many thoughts occur to our mind in connection with this doctrine of

acceptance of power of attorney. We find in the history of the world,

that it is the great souls alone, such as Lord Jesusu, Chaitanya and

others, who could sometimes give assurance of this kind to some

people. Ordinary teachers have no power to do so. They can at the

most teach others the Mantras and particular practices with the help

of which they themselves made spiritual progress; or they can attract

people towards purity by living pure lives themselves. But when

paralysed by various kinds of worldly bondages, man reaches the state

of complete helplessness, and when asked to do even a trifling thing,

he pleads his inability to do it and asks for help in utter despair,

it is beyond the power of ordinary teachers to help him. It is beyond

the power of any man to say to another that he would take upon

himself all responsibilities for the latter's evil actions and that

he himself would experience their results on the latter's behalf. It

is when there is a very great decline of spirituality in the heart of

man that the lord out of his grace incarnates himself and suffers the

results of man's bondage. Although he does so, he does not absolve

him altogether, but makes him put forth some little effort, so that

he may learn. The Master used to say in this connection, " Man

finishesthe experiences of ten lives in one by their( the

incarnations') grace. "

 

Examples.

 

This is true of an individual as of a nation. It is this which has

been called in the Gita (XI), " The attainment of the divine eye" by

Arjuna for the purpose of having the vision of the universal form of

Bhahman; in the Puranas, " being blessed with the grace of God the

lord';in the Bengal Vaishnava scriptures, " The saving of Jagai and

Madhai or the crushing of the unbeliever in them"; and in the

Christian scriptures, " the vicarious atonement" of jesus through

taking upon himself the suffering of others. We could never have

realised that there is truth in all this, if we did not get an

indication of it in the life of Sri Ramakrishna.

 

 

When i have pondering over this subject a doubt has come into my

mind. We as advaitins call the Ishwara as punyapapaatitaha,

sarvashaktaha etc. In the vicarious atonement it is said that if an

incarnation of God takes sins of other out of their mercy they have

to suffer physically. It is testified in the life of Jesus, Sri

Ramakrishna and many other incarnations eventhough it might not have

come into limelight. Sri Ramkrishna used to say that suffering that

he had to undergo was only due to taking the sins of others

deliberately. If we observe the life of holy people they do suffer a

lot and we cannot say that is due to the prarabhda. I feel if the

brahmajnana cannot burn the burden of prarabhda then prarabhda will

become more powerful than the knowledge of brahman!

 

If that is the case can we say that even the incarnations has to

undergo the suffering for the partaking of the sins of their

disciples? If it is so then how can we all them all powerful. Can we

say the within law is bondage and beyond law is freedom and this

applies to even incarnations or greatest manifestations of god on

earth.

 

I am really troubled by this thought. In my heart of heart i feel my

Raghuveer is Samartha and can do anything. But at the same time these

facts are before me. Help form the learnded members of the fourum is

sought to solve this enigmatic puzzle.

 

JAI JAI RAGHUVEER SAMARTHA

 

Yours in the Lord,

 

Br. Vinayaka

[Guest guest]

Vinayaka <vinayaka_ns wrote:

Dear Advaitins,

 

Namaste,

 

 

 

If that is the case can we say that even the incarnations has to

undergo the suffering for the partaking of the sins of their

disciples? If it is so then how can we all them all powerful. Can we

say the within law is bondage and beyond law is freedom and this

applies to even incarnations or greatest manifestations of god on

earth.

 

I am really troubled by this thought. In my heart of heart i feel my

Raghuveer is Samartha and can do anything. But at the same time these

facts are before me. Help form the learnded members of the fourum is

sought to solve this enigmatic puzzle.

 

Dear Vinayakji,

The power of the enlightened ones or the avatars, both of

whom are the same in my understanding, does not consist in their

invulnerability towards the human sorrow. The enlightened ones have the

understanding that sorrow is not individual but cosmic, in which perception

they will be subject to many sufferings, which fact is only extolling their

greatness, and is not by way of belittling them. But, in the perception of the

enlightened there is only compassion, and not individual sorrow, which is their

last upadhi. In fact, the word power seems to be too materialistic. Like a

blade of grass the enlightened ones are vulnerable to all experiences, except

that they do not have the egotistic interpretation of the experiences of life,

but only see compassion which is different from the individual action of

sympathy attempting to alleviate the pain of others through a split mind.

According to Nisargdatta Maharaj ( seeds of consciousness by Jean Dun), the

entier manifest existence is an act of compassion of the enlightened.

With regards,

Sankarraman

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Photos

Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,

whatever.

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin, Ganesan Sankarraman <shnkaran>

wrote:

>

> Dear Vinayakji,

> The power of the enlightened ones or the

avatars, both of whom are the same in my understanding, does not

consist in their invulnerability towards the human sorrow. The

enlightened ones have the understanding that sorrow is not

individual but cosmic, in which perception they will be subject to

many sufferings, which fact is only extolling their greatness, and

is not by way of belittling them.............

 

Dear Sir,

 

Thank you for your insightful reply on the subject. Although i have

read it i feel i have to think deeply on your the points mentioned.

And i feel it has helped me a lot in my quest as far as true import

of this topic is concerned.

 

JAI JAI RAGHUVEER SAMARTHA

 

Yours in the lord,

 

Br. Vinayaka.