Advaita in Greece and Egypt

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

 

ADVAITA IN GREECE

 

In the sanctum of the Oracle of Delphi was written the words: 'Know

Thyself'. The Oracle of Delphi had said that of all the people who

lived in Greece, Socrates was the wisest.

 

Socrates showed that the truth of objects lie in universals

(samanya). He said that the world, as we see it, is inexplicable

(anirvacaniya). His method was the dialectic of affirmation and

negation (adhyaropa and apavada).

 

Knowledge, said Socrates, was within one's self and it is to be

recollected by dialectic. His words were the Way of Advaita, and in

the Theaetetus and Sophist, he established Advaita without a doubt.

Socrates was an Advaita sage. But the people of Athens said that he

made the lesser truth appear the greater and the greater truth appear

the lesser. They killed him for it. Socrates however welcomed death

because he considered philosophy as a preparation for death so that

Life may arise from its ashes.

 

In the sanctum of the Oracle of Delphi was written the words: 'Know

Thyself'. And the Oracle of Delphi had said that of all the people

who lived in Greece, Socrates was the wisest.

 

 

ADVAITA IN EGYPT

>From 'Awakening Osiris', a new translation of 'The Egyptian Book of

the Dead' by Normandi Elis (Hanes Press)

 

Hymn to Osiris

 

The doors of perception open; what was hidden has been revealed. It

is myself I see and a thousand colours swirling in liquid light. I am

where the sun sets below the mountains. I am in this body. I am that

star rising above clouds hung by a thread from its ocean moon. Hail

myself traversing eternity walking among gods, a shuttle flying

across the loom through the threads of time. This is all one place,

one cloth: a man's life endures. On earth flowers grow, snakes crawl

and wisdom lies in the palm of a hand. All that is will be – hawks

and sparrows, the thousand lives within.

 

I have come home. I have entered humanhood, bound to rocks and

plants, men and women, rivers and sky. I shall be with you in this

and other worlds. When the cat arches in the doorway, think of me. I

have sometimes been like that. When two men greet each other in the

street, I am there speaking to you. When you look up, know I am

there – sun and moon pouring my love around you. All these things am

I, portents, images, signs. Though apart, I am part of you. One of

the million things in the universe, I am the universe too. You think

I disguise myself as rivers and trees simply to confuse you? Whatever

I am, woman, cat or lotus, the same God breathes in every body. You

and I together are a single creation. Neither death nor spite nor

fear nor ignorance stops my love for you.

 

May we come and go in and out of heaven through the gates of

starlight. As the houses of earth fill with dancing and song, so

filled are the houses of heaven. I come, in truth. I sail a long

river and row back again. It is joy to breathe under the stars. I am

the sojourner destined to walk a thousand years until I arrive to my

Self.

 

 

Warm regards,

Chittaranjan

[Guest guest]

advaitin, "Chittaranjan Naik"

<chittaranjan_naik> wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

>

 

Namaste C-Ji,

 

An old Irish Druid saying;

 

'(1)Ni heolas go haontios

Means:

There is no knowledge without unity.'

 

............ONS..Tony.

[Guest guest]

Dear Tony-ji,

 

advaitin, "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote:

> Namaste C-Ji,

>

> An old Irish Druid saying;

>

> '(1)Ni heolas go haontios

> Means:

> There is no knowledge without unity.'

 

 

Yes, Tony-ji, not to forget the Celts for whom all of nature was

alive, the One Life breathing through the fields of earth and the

vaults of heaven.

 

"In lovely harmony the wood has put on its green mantle, and summer

is on the throne, playing its string-music; the willow, whose harp

hung silent when it was withered in winter, now gives forth its

melody - Hush! Listen! The world is alive."

 

.......Thomas Telynog Evans

 

Warm regards,

Chittaranjan

[Guest guest]

Namashkar Sri Chittaranjan ,

 

I have been reading your posts on the message board and found your

posts to be very informative and interesting. Like Socrates , You are

indeed an 'accomplished' speaker ( nay an accomplished) writer.)

There is no 'irony' in the adjective 'accomplished' - it just means

the 'truth' as you see in Advaita , Adhyasa, Apavada, and Adhyaropa.

:-).

 

I have a question for you , Sri Chittaranjan? How can one make a

weaker argument appear stronger - specially the rope-snake analogy ?

How far can we stretch the rope or our imagination? :-) True,

Socrates was the wisest. But he also made his accusers

look 'ridiculous' !

 

warm regards

 

Saraswati devi

 

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin, "Chittaranjan Naik"

<chittaranjan_naik> wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Saraswati-ji,

 

 

advaitin, "Saraswati" <dhyanasaraswati>

wrote:

> Namashkar Sri Chittaranjan ,

>

> I have been reading your posts on the message board and

> found your posts to be very informative and interesting.

> Like Socrates, You are indeed an 'accomplished' speaker

> (nay an accomplished writer.) There is no 'irony' in the

> adjective 'accomplished' - it just means the 'truth' as

> you see in Advaita , Adhyasa, Apavada, and Adhyaropa. :-).

 

Thank you, you express yourself very 'frankly' and 'openly'. :-)

 

> I have a question for you, Sri Chittaranjan? How can one

> make a weaker argument appear stronger - specially the

> rope-snake analogy?

 

Good question. The weaker argument can be made to appear the stronger

by a dose of ignorance. In the context of the snake-rope analogy, the

weaker argument may be made to appear the stronger by ensuring that

following things are taken care of:

 

1) By not knowing the meanings of the words 'snake' and 'rope'.

 

2) By not realising that some attribute of the rope (such as its

coiled shape) has to be seen for it to be mistaken for a snake.

 

3) By not realising that there has to be a concealment of the rope

(such as its concealment due to lack of sufficient light) for it to

be seen as a snake.

 

4) By not realising that both seeing and concealment have to be there

for the error to take place.

 

5) By not realising that the mind tries to grasp the substance of an

attribute that is seen.

 

But I have a question for you which I am sure you will answer. We

seek the Grace of Saraswati for knowledge regarding the matter. The

question is this: What is the necessary condition for an analogy to

be operative as a means of knowledge?

 

> How far can we stretch the rope or our imagination? :-)

 

The truth of a thing is what it is. Stretching of imagination cannot

stretch the thing beyond what it is. Seeing it, as it is, is seeing

the truth. As to the extent to which imagination may stretch itself,

there is no limit. Truth is limited to what a thing is, but the

untruth has no limits because it is everything that the imagination

says it is. :-)

 

> True, Socrates was the wisest. But he also made his accusers

> look 'ridiculous' !

 

So did Yajnavalkya. So did Jesus.

 

Do you know what Socrates considered himself to be? He said that he

was a mid-wife, one who helps deliver knowledge in a person who is

pregnant with it.

 

Who are the accusers of Socrates? Socrates said that he knew nothing.

But there were people in Greece (at that time) who claimed that they

knew a great deal about philosophy. They were called the Sophists.

When Socrates questioned them, they were often reduced to a state of

perplexity. The Sophists were used to speaking from public platforms

on matters that they considered profound, but in the presence of

Socrates they lost their speech and became numb. Some of them

compared him to a sting-ray that shocks a person into getting numbed,

and Socrates was happy to accept this description about himself. He

said the this state of perplexity was a better state than standing on

public platforms and dispensing knowledge that they thought they had

to crowds of listeners. The state of perplexity is a state that one

who thinks he knows a lot has to pass through in his quest for

knowledge. It is not a bad thing. The true seeker is grateful for it,

and he moves ahead in his search. But one who feels insulted by it,

becomes an accuser. Such were the accusers of Socrates. Was it

Socrates that made them look 'ridiculous'?

 

Warm regards,

Chittaranjan

[Guest guest]

Namashkar Sri Chittaranjan-ji !

 

I specially appreciated your response to the question

 

( How can one make a weaker argument appear stronger - specially the

rope-snake analogy? )

 

Thank you . Pretty Good for explaining the Ropeness of the rope. .

 

Sri Chiitaranjjan, you go on to pose a counter question

(We seek the Grace of Saraswati for knowledge regarding the matter.

The question is this: What is the necessary condition for an analogy

to be operative as a means of knowledge? )

 

I am glad you are seeking the Grace ( anugraham) of the Goddess of

Learning in understanding the real truth behind the rope-snake

analogy. Avidya can only be removed by the grace of Goddess and

Guru. and how is knowledge gained - by having 'shraddha' in

Sharadambaal ( another name for Saraswati-the presiding Goddess of

Sringeri ) and Shankaracharya , the Advaita Guru. Jnana yoga and

Bhakti yoga are complimentary to each other.

 

As Sri Sadanandaji has elsewhere remarked in one of his messages ,

knowing the fuller nuances of Karma yoga is a prerequisite for

understanding the higher power of Brahman. In fact, all students of

ADVAITA are encouraged to study Atma Bodha and other texts before

embarking on a study of Adi Shankara's Brahma sutras , which is

called a Moksha shastra. Can a person who is in bondage ever be

liberated by mere study of Brahma sutras ? Even bookish knowledge is

a bondage. Avidya cannot be eradicated merely by the Cognition

of 'rope-snake' analogy! :-) You are absolutely right in assuming

that Ignorance can only be removed by the Grace of Guru and the

Goddess in the form of a Guru .

 

The Bija Mantra of Saraswati is 'Aim' - It is called 'vak bija'

acquiring knowledge and wisdom, mastery over words, powers of

speech .

 

What is this Knowledge ? The knowledge of Brahman after knowing which

nothing else needs to be known. :-)

 

Sri Chittaranjan-ji, you say

 

(Socrates said that he knew nothing. )

 

is this the famous statement you are alluding to ?

 

"All I know is that I know nothing. "

 

Wisest statement I have heard in a long time . IF only we all knew

how little we all know in spite of reading al the Bhasyas and the

Granthas and their commentaries.? :-) Knowledge is power, it is said.

But Self-knowledge ? That is the ultimate RAJA VIDYA , KING OF

KNOWLEDGE !

 

WARMEST REGARDS

 

sri Gurubyo namaha

 

OM 'AIM' SARASWATHAYE NAMAHA!

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Chitta-ji!

 

You ask

 

(But I have a question for you which I am sure you will answer. We

seek the Grace of Saraswati for knowledge regarding the matter. The

question is this: What is the necessary condition for an analogy to

be operative as a means of knowledge? )

 

Chitta-ji, you are absolute;y right. Devi Saraswati did bestow her

infinite grace on me this morning during my brahma-muhurtha

meditation and directed me to this beautiful verse in Vivekachudamani

( authorship attributed to Sri Shankara Bhagvadapada) !

 

Verse 110 of Vivekachudamani

 

shuddhaa'dvaya-brahma-vibhodhan'aashyaa

sarpa-bhramo rajju-vivekato yathaa

rajas-tamaH-sattvam iti prasiddhaa

guNaas-tadiiyaaH prathitaiH sva-kaaryaiH ..

 

It can be overcome by the realization of the pure non-dual God, like

the false idea of a snake through the recognition of the rope. It is

composed of the three qualities (gunas) of passion, dullness and

purity, recognized by their effects.

 

Yes! Once Brahman is known and ignorance is destroyed and there is no

more illusion , where is the rope , where is the snake ? All there is

Brahman ....

 

When Brahm ( doubt) is gone , only Brahman remains.

 

Eastern Mystics were fond of using Analogies to explain great mystic

Truths. Adi shankara was a great poet philosopher , He used simple

day to day analogies to explain great Truths. Analogies have their

use in any spiritual quest. Once the destination is reached , do we

really need signposts as Michaelji asked ?

 

THE ROPE HAS MANY USES. some use it to hang themselves with it. But a

spiritual adept uses the 'rope' to illustrate great spiritual truths -

such as Do not mistake a 'rope' for a snake .... smile!

 

I am sure Michaelji can TELL this audience what Thomas ACQUINAS uses

analogies in his philosophy or may be you can tell us about

Aristotle !We are all familiar with Plato's analogy of the

prosoners ! smile !

 

however , i will leave you with this analogy - It is not only a

drunken man ( IGNORANT) who mistakes a 'rope' for a snake BUT A GOD

INTOXICATED MAN walks over a real snake thinking it is a rope ! such

was the state of Chaitanya mahaprabhu - he drowned while walking into

the Sea in a mood of Exalted Krishna prema !

 

Sri Gurubyo Namaha

 

Aum AIM SARASWATHAYE NAMAHA !

[Guest guest]

Namaste Saraswati-ji,

 

advaitin, "Saraswati" <dhyanasaraswati>

wrote:

 

> however , i will leave you with this analogy - It is

> not only a drunken man ( IGNORANT) who mistakes a

> 'rope' for a snake BUT A GOD INTOXICATED MAN walks

> over a real snake thinking it is a rope !

 

There are also Yogis who go along with the Snake to free themselves

from the Rope.

 

The shaktis that guard over the six chakras prevent a man from rising

to knowledge. The six chakras are called the Rope of Brahma. When the

sleeping Snake (Kundalini) is awakened it frees the man from the Rope

of Brahma. :-)

 

Warm regards,

Chittaranjan

[Guest guest]

Namaste Chittaranjanji.

 

I don't know if you will have time to look at this amidst your

personal preoccupation mentioned in your previous message to Subbuji.

 

Isn't the word 'prevent' too strong? It is these shaktis who hold

the seeker's hand up the ladder of Knowledge. At least, this is what

I am told in the vision of my SrI Cakra PUjA. The shaktis are

Kundalini Herself and they can't be an impediment to the one who has

surrendered himself totally unto Her.

 

I am, therefore, afraid we have taken undue liberty with the snake of

the snake-rope analogy in likening it to the coiled-up serpent of

Kundalini.

 

The six cakrAs may be rope that binds, as you say. But, one who

knows the essence of karma yogA as enunciated in SrImad Bhagawad GItA

is not bound when he prostrates before each of the shaktIs placing a

petal each on their Lotus Feet as he climbs the ladder. He is untied

when seemingly tied. That is the relevance of advaita to Kundalini.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

____________________________

 

advaitin, "Chittaranjan Naik"

<chittaranjan_naik> wrote:

>> There are also Yogis who go along with the Snake to free

themselves

> from the Rope.

>

> The shaktis that guard over the six chakras prevent a man from

rising

> to knowledge. The six chakras are called the Rope of Brahma. When

the

> sleeping Snake (Kundalini) is awakened it frees the man from the

Rope

> of Brahma. :-)

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Nair-ji,

 

advaitin, "Madathil Rajendran Nair"

<madathilnair> wrote:

>

> Namaste Chittaranjanji.

>

> I don't know if you will have time to look at this

> amidst your personal preoccupation mentioned in your

> previous message to Subbuji.

>

> Isn't the word 'prevent' too strong? It is these

> shaktis who hold the seeker's hand up the ladder of

> Knowledge. At least, this is what I am told in the

> vision of my SrI Cakra PUjA. The shaktis are

> Kundalini Herself and they can't be an impediment

> to the one who has surrendered himself totally unto

> Her.

 

Nairji, you speak like a true bhakta of the Mother. For a bhakta,

Shakti does not prevent from attaining knowledge. But what about the

non-bhakta? The very lack of bhakti in him is termed the Shakti that

ties him to the rope of Brahma. The Mother is both Terrible and

Gracious. She devours her children in the womb of time, and She is

the Grace that releases them from the shark-infested ocean of

samsara. Kundalini coiled is an impediment to knowledge, and

Kundalini straightened is the Devi leading her child by the hand to

the Light of Knowledge.

 

We speak of creation, sustenance and dissolution, but there are two

more activities of the Lord that are even more fundamental than

these. They are obscuration and grace, the Shakti by which one is

placed in the cycle of creation itself, and the Shakti by which one

is released from the cycle of creation. In Tantra, these powers are

called Ghora Shakti and Aghora Shakti. One may say that ghora and

aghora are the Kundalini coiled and uncoiled respectively.

 

> I am, therefore, afraid we have taken undue liberty

> with the snake of the snake-rope analogy in likening

> it to the coiled-up serpent of Kundalini.

 

The snake of the snake-rope analogy is not the Kundalini, but the

coil of the Kundalini. The Kundalini Herself is the (hidden) Rope of

the snake-rope analogy.

 

The words that i wrote are not my own. They come from Kshemaraja's

Shiva-Sutra Vimarshini. In speaking about Matrika, the Mother and

Creatrix of the world, Kshemaraja says in the Vimarshini:

 

"She associates the feelings of sorrow, astonishment, joy, desire,

etc., with cognitions of the limited knowable, steady and unsteady

states of consciousness, like 'I am finite', 'I am thin or fat', 'I

am an Agnistoma sacrificer', by endowing those cognitions with words

that describe them. It is said in the Trimorodghata: 'Those Shaktis

that are between Brahmarandhra and the Chiti, that hold the rope of

Brahma, the mistresses of the stations (pithas), most dreadful, again

and again deceive men.' She manifests the series of Shaktis,

beginning from Brahmi, which preside over varga, kala, etc. She is

described in the Agamas like Sarvavira, as the maker of mantras,

i.e., one who arranges sounds in their proper order which makes them

efficacious. She is embraced by the Shaktichakra, the totality of the

energies of the universe, made up of Amba, Jyestha, Raudri, and Vama.

She is the head of the Shaktis."

 

> The six cakrAs may be rope that binds, as you say.

> But, one who knows the essence of karma yogA as

> enunciated in SrImad Bhagawad GItA is not bound

> when he prostrates before each of the shaktIs placing

> a petal each on their Lotus Feet as he climbs the

> ladder. He is untied when seemingly tied. That is

> the relevance of advaita to Kundalini.

 

True. But we need to remember that it is She who makes us prostrate

before the Shaktis, that it is She that even gives us the inclination

to prostrate or place a petal on Her Lotus Feet. She is us. She is

She that has made Shiva into us and it is She that will take us back

to Shiva. She is all in all. She is terrible and She is

compassionate. She cannot be encapsulated in any description. She is

our minds, our bodies, our thoughts, our affirmations, our negations,

our sins, our virtues, our desires, our aversions, our very breath,

our very Heart – our Consciousness. But Nairji, you know all this

better than i do.

 

 

Warm regards,

Chittaranjan

[Guest guest]

Namaste Chittaranjanji.

 

Immense thanks for the brilliant clarification in your post 30098.

 

It indeed serves the List and me well to know in greater detail what

exactly you meant. My question was just a prodding in that direction.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair