Guest guest Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Sri Tony ji wrote: REF :Message: 1 Sun, 05 Feb 2006 17:10:38 -0000 "Tony OClery" <aoclery Re: Vivartavada Namaste V-Ji et al, Vivarta, as per Monnier Williams Dictionary, means: (in Veda7nta) error , illusion , an apparent or illusory form , unreality (caused by A-vidya1 "' , ignorance "' , and removed by Vidya1 , `" true knowledge ) Veda7ntas. Other meanings for the word, as per the same source, are: changing from one state to another , modification , alteration , transformation , altered form or condition Ka1v. Katha1s {-vAda} m. a method of asserting the Vedanta doctrine (maintaining the development of the Universe from Brahma as the sole real entity , the phenomenal world being held to be a mere illusion or Ma1ya1 ; cf. %{pariNAma-vAdA}) In my way of thinking Vivarta is an illusion, that is only evident in delusion. There is no time so everything seemingly happens at once so nothing is unfolding or being projected. In deep sleep or sushupti the world disappears, except for a thought of existence in the jiva. The Sages say when one becomes realised the world becomes then an appearance on the Self/Saguna. However when the body drops there is no appearance, no reason for Saguna only Nirguna. This is why I said that Sankara taught Ajitavada....................ONS...Tony. Dear Tony ji Namaste. Many thanks for the dictionary references. Pl. note that the term Ajitavada that you have mentioned above is to be spelt as Ajativada. Warm regards subbu Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 advaitin, V Subrahmanian <subrahmanian_v wrote: > Re: Vivartavada > > Namaste V-Ji et al, > > Vivarta, as per Monnier Williams Dictionary, means Namaste, Does anyone have Shankara-Bhashya on Shvetashvatara Upanishad 6:2 : .... teneshitaM karma vivartate ha pRRithyaapyatejo.anilakhaani chintyam || Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Ref:Message: 10 Wed, 08 Feb 2006 19:58:48 -0000 "Sunder Hattangadi" <sunderh Re: The Dictionary meaning of Vivartavada Namaste Sunderji! I don't have the original Shankara bhAshya on the ShvEtAshvatata upanishad; However, I have a commentary (in Kannada) based on Shankara bhAshya, Which I will summarize. Before I do that, I looked up in the dictionary, the meaning of "vivarta". The dictionary meaning is 1) change, 2) effect (pariNama). ....an appearance that is not real, a form appearing because of delusion - the adhyAsa of jagat in Brahman due to ignorance - is vivarta. The vivarta vAda is a variation of satkArya (supported by shAstra) vAda as proposed by Shankara. The pariNama vAda is another variation proposed by rAmAnuja. The meaning of the second half of the mantra you have quoted is - the karma (creation) manifested by Him appears (vivarta) as earth, water, fire, air and space) Now coming to the commentary.... Brahman, appears Himself as the chEtana and jada aspects of this jagat [chEtana aspect is called the parA prikriti and jada aspect is the aparA prikriti (gIta - 7-5)].The two aspects of the prikriti are regarded as His Power. If we view this jagat with jnyAna, we will be able to see His power, glory, aishvarya in all manifested forms. The whole creation appears as Him. On the other hand, due to ajnyAna, we see the jagat in multiple forms as manifested - good and bad, sAtvik, rajas and tamas etc, then this jagat will bind us as mAya. Sri Subbuji has indicated this in his comments. Regards, Ramakrishna. ------------------ Namaste, Does anyone have Shankara-Bhashya on Shvetashvatara Upanishad 6:2 : .... teneshitaM karma vivartate ha pRRithyaapyatejo.anilakhaani chintyam || Regards, Sunder Namaste Sunder ji: Recently i was told that Shankara has used this word in the above bhashyam. And i was also told that His authorship of this bhashyam is not undisputedly accepted by the international fraternity of scholars. I shall try to get the exact passage and post it here. I tried in the Ramakrishna Ashram Library and could not find it there. However, a book titled 'Svetasvatara upanishad' by Swami Tyagisananda, published by the Sri Ramakrishna Math, Chennai, contains the following note under the above cited mantra: for the word 'assumes' : The word 'vivartate' in the text seems to suggest the vivarta theory of Sri Shankara, according to which Brahman appears as the world without really undergoing any change. p.114 Warm regards subbu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 advaitin, "Krishnamurthy Ramakrishna" <puttakrishna wrote: >> Re: The Dictionary meaning of Vivartavada > > Before I do that, I looked up in the dictionary, the meaning of "vivarta". > The dictionary meaning is 1) change, 2) effect (pariNama). > ...an appearance that is not real, a form appearing because of delusion - > the adhyAsa of jagat in Brahman due to ignorance - is vivarta. The vivarta > vAda is a variation of satkArya (supported by shAstra) vAda as proposed by > Shankara. The pariNama vAda is another variation proposed by rAmAnuja. > The meaning of the second half of the mantra you have quoted is - the karma > (creation) manifested by Him appears (vivarta) as earth, water, fire, air > and space) > Now coming to the commentary.... > Brahman, appears Himself as the chEtana and jada aspects of this jagat > [chEtana aspect is called the parA prikriti and jada aspect is the aparA > prikriti (gIta - 7-5)].The two aspects of the prikriti are regarded as His > Power. If we view this jagat with jnyAna, we will be able to see His power, > glory, aishvarya in all manifested forms. The whole creation appears as Him. > On the other hand, due to ajnyAna, we see the jagat in multiple forms as > manifested - good and bad, sAtvik, rajas and tamas etc, then this jagat will > bind us as mAya. Namaste, Namaste Ramakrishna-ji, Thank you very much. Can vivartate mean the same as viparivartate? An interesting reference is Gita 9:10 : jagadviparivartate | Shankara comments : jagatsacharaacharaM vyaktaavyktaatmakaM viparivartate sarvaavasthaasu | ["this universe comprising the moving and the unmoving objects, the manifested and the unmanifested, moves on through all stages." tr. Alladi Mahadeva Shastry] Madhusudana Sarasvati comments as follows: "viparivartate vividhaM parivartate. janmaadivinaashaantaM vikaarajaatamanavaratamaasaadayatiityarthaH. ato bhaasakatvamaatre¸a vyaapaare¸a visRRijaamiityuktam. taavataa caadityaaderiva kartRRitvaabhaavaadudaasiinavadaasiinamityuktamiti na virodham.h. taduktam 'asya dvaitendrajaalasya yadupaadaanakaaraNam. aj~naanaM tadupaashritya brahma kaaraNamucyate' ......." ["viparivartate – changes diversely, i.e. it ceaselessly undergoes all the changes form birth to destruction. Hence it was said that I project through the mere act of being the illuminator. And in this way, since there is an absence of agentship, as of the sun etc., therefore it has been said, `.....remaining (as I do) like one unconcerned.'.......So it has been said: That which is the material cause of this (phenomenal) magic involving duality is nescience. Relying on that (fact) Brahman (too) is said to be the cause." Gudarthadipika tr. Sw. Gambirananda. Regards, Sunder [other relevant references: Brahma Sutra Bhashya 1:4:23-27] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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