Guest guest Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 For Convenience sake, I am clubbing two posts of Madathil ji and responding. Ref:Message: 6 Wed, 08 Feb 2006 08:54:14 -0000 "Madathil Rajendran Nair" <madathilnair Re: Sridakshinamurtistotram Part II Namaste Subbuji. This is not written in the spirit of tarka but with the sole objective of generating new thoughts. A city reflected in a mirror needs a relatively real city outside. A reflection has no independent existence without the actual object outside. The analogy, if understood the way you have explained, thus has the flaw of granting more reality to the outside world, which is reflected. For this reason, isn't it safer to assume that the verse only means that the entire universe is within the seer like the image in a mirror. Here the mirror is Consciousness. Response: Namaste Nair ji: In fact I had intended to include a sentence to the effect that the analogy provided by the Acharya is specific to the reflection in the mirror and that the extending of the analogy to consider the real object outside would be improper. But later I thought mentioning this would be an 'insult' to the learned and highly intelligent members. Hence I did not add that. What you have said, in the last two sentences above is perfect. Incidentally, I remember a definition of the term Vaartikam. You know a vaartikam is a commentary. It is said : Ukta-anukta-durukta-chintaa vaartikam……Someone pl. correct that sentence. The Vartika author has the agenda of commenting on that which has been said, that which has not been said, due to various reasons like keeping to brevity, and the last one is durukta, that which has been wrongly said. This last one, durukta, may be there or may not be there in the main work. The 'objective' that you have said on top will be a helpful exercise indeed. Nair Ji says: Secondly, why do we attach the meaning of swapna (dream) to nidrA? Hasn't Acharya devoted Verse 8 to deal with the question of dream and waking? Nidra is sleep. Can't it therefore mean that we are in a state of sleep, i.e. not awake to Reality. Don't we often say `Wake up to the truth'? Nidra can, therefore, be ignorance – the sleep of ignorance – due to which (yathA nidrayA) the Universe which is really within the Self is projected as existing separately outside in a state of diversity. Response: Again you are right. It is 'prasiddhi' that a shakti does not remain dormant. It does express itself. This expression of the nidra shakti, as per, for example, the Mandukya scheme, is in the form of swapna/jagrat. The Mandukya karika prefers to club the two together and labels it as swapna. That is why in the karika that has been quoted by me, the Turiya, the Self, is characterised as anidram and asvapnam. Thus, nidra is the kaarana paada and svapna is kaarya paada comprising of the other two states. The eighth verse lays emphasis on the nature of the 'contents' of the svapna and jagrat and what are all the misconceptions that we entertain regarding them. Let me keep that in 'suspense'. Right? Nair ji says: Long back, I likened Consciousness here to a self-iridescent screen. The iridescence glows the world of duality creating a seer-seen division. We call it the error of adhyAsa. When the truth of the one-without-a-second screen is realized as all that there is, the division, including the iridescence, sublates into the Oneness of Consciousness. We realize that the screen couldn't have self- iridescence as a property. Isn't this all that the verse means? The mirror is all that remains. The world seen in it is actually the mirror. Response: Quite true. The real intent of the verse is to show that the `inside' becomes an `outside' due to ignorance, i.e. what is actually in the mirror is misunderstood as existing outside. Am I right? Response: You are absolutely right again. Nair ji: Needless to say, your attempt is brilliant and you have gathered a lot of insightful references. I am, therefore, eagerly looking forward to reading your further inputs on this great hymn which encapsulates the whole of advaita. PraNAms. Madathil Nair Thank you Madhathil ji and humble pranams Ref:Message: 8 Wed, 08 Feb 2006 09:50:44 -0000 "Madathil Rajendran Nair" <madathilnair Re: Sridakshinamurtistotram Part II Namaste Subbuji. I forgot to write this in my previous message. My view is that nidrA and mAyA should be read together, i.e. yathA nidrayA mAyayA. Response: The above reading would not be proper for the reason that: There are two things involved in this: First, the very appearance of the world in the Self. This is due to Maya. Maayayaa hetunaa. This is where the mirror example was used. Just this would not be sufficient. Its appearing as though it is outside has also to be shown. The mirror-reflection will not accomplish this. This is where the dream analogy is used by using the word yathaa nidrayaa. Nairji says: It would be helpful if you can endeavour to provide Sanskrit anwaya for each verse as you post them so that the meaning you intend to elaborate will be clear. I know that this quite a tall order. However, kindly try your best. PraNAms. Madathil Nair Response: Let me try the anvaya. Scholars, pl. do not curse me for the 'murder' of the sacred text !! maayayaa (hetunaa) aatmani darpana-drshyamaana-nagarii-tulyam nijaaantargatam vishwam, nidrayaa (hetunaa) yathaa bahiriva udbhuutam (tathaa) pashyan YaH prabodhasamaye svaatmaanam advayameva saakshaatkurute, Tasmai Srigurumurtaye Sridakshinamurtaye idam namaH. Optionally, the word vishwam can be read after tathaa. This would have the advantage of reading 'nijaantargatam bahiriva udbhuutam' in a nice, natural sequence. That is, the 'inside' appearing as though it is 'outside'. Svaatmaanam advayameva : He realizes his Self as none other than the Secondless One, in the manner of 'Sa Eva Aham'. A tough exercise indeed!! PraNAms. subbu Relax. Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Namaste Subbuji. Thanks for your brilliant clarificatons. My preference would be as follows: nidrayA mAyayA bahiriva udbhuutaM yatA vishwaM Atmani darpaNa- drshyamAna-nagarI-tulyaM nijAntargataM pashyan yaH prabodhasamaye advayaM svAtmAnaM sAkSAtkurute tasmai srIgurumURtaye sridakshinamurtaye idam namaH. yatA is effectively used in the verse to show that the outside appearance of the world is only 'as though'. I have to confess that my knowledge of Sanskrit is rudimentary. I am in fact learning from you. In Devi MAhatmyaM Chapter 1, Devi is described as 'nidrAm bhagavatIM'. In the 5th Chapter, she is extolled as error (bhrAnti). That is the Advaitin's adhyAsa. Hence, there is every reason to believe that nidrA denotes mAyAshakti and not a reference to swapna of the avastAtraya although many commentators including Sw. Chinmayanandaji have gone in for that explanation. Isn't She also called moharAtRi (the night of delusion) in Chapter 1? PraNAms. Madathil Nair advaitin, V Subrahmanian <subrahmanian_v wrote: >> > > > maayayaa (hetunaa) aatmani darpana-drshyamaana-nagarii-tulyam nijaaantargatam vishwam, nidrayaa (hetunaa) yathaa bahiriva udbhuutam (tathaa) pashyan > > YaH prabodhasamaye svaatmaanam advayameva saakshaatkurute, Tasmai Srigurumurtaye Sridakshinamurtaye idam namaH. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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