Varna System

[Guest guest]

Namaste to all Advaitins:

The current debate on the Varna system brought up many questions. Many of the

questions, I felt, are answered well in the book titled 'Dialogues with the

Guru' by Sri. R. Krishnaswamy Iyer. I have reproduced some portions of the book

here. The entire book, consisting of 140 pages, is an excellent exposition on

various topics like Modern Education, Means of Happiness, Fate and Free-will,

Marriage Reform, Advaita, etc.

 

Srigurubhyo NamaH

 

Hinduism

 

The Universal Law

 

When His Holiness the Jagadguru Sri Chandrasekhara Bharati Swamigal

(1892-1954) of Sringeri was camping in a quiet village during the course of his

tours, a European gentleman came to see him. He seemed to have studied some

popular books on Vedanta philosophy and felt attracted by its teachings.

European (E): Swamiji, may I know if you are prepared to take converts to your

religion? Personally I find much worth in it and I have known very many friends

who so love your philosophy and religion that they would like toc all themselves

Hindus, if that were possible.

Acharya (A): The Hindu system of philosophy and religion is bound to attract

all thinking minds, but we do not take in converts.

E: If you think that your system is an invaluable one and is bound to be

useful to all mankind, does it not follow that you must be prepared to take in

converts?

A: Not necessarily. Conversion is possible or necessary only when the person

who desires to be a convert does not already belong to the religion to which he

desires to be converted.

E: How is that? Do you mean to say that no formal conversion is necessary as

those who desire to be Hindus are already Hindus by virtue of that desire

itself?

A: No. I mean that all are Hindus, irrespective of their desire to be called

Hindus.

E: How can that be?

A: Hinduism is the name which has now been given to our system., but the real

name has always been Sanatana Dharma or the Eternal Law,. It does not date from

a particular point of time or begin from a particular founder. Being eternal,

it is also universal. It knows no territorial jurisdiction. All beings born

and to be born belong to it. They cannot escape this law, whether they concede

its binding force or not. The eternal truth that fire burns does not depend for

its validity upon our allegiance to it. If we accept that truth, so much the

better for us. If we do not, so much the worse for us. In either case, the law

is there, immutable, universal and eternal. Such is our Sanatana Dharma.

E: If then the entire world is Hindu according to you, how do you justify the

restrictive caste system?

A: I only told you that all were Hindus and therefore entitled to seek

guidance in the tenets of our religion. I did not say that the guidance will be

the same for all. Countless are the varieties of temperament, training,

environments, hereditary leanings, pre-natal tendencies and so on, so that it

will be impossible to expect any single stereotyped system of conduct for all.

Our Dharma taking due notice of this undeniable fact, resolves itself into two

parts: 1.Samanya Dharma or Ordinary Law and 2. Visesha Dharma or Special Law.

The former guides all mankind; the former and the latter both together guide

those who come under the caste system.

E: If the rules of caste have any spiritual value, why not give the benefit of

them to those also who are outside it?

A: If water is beneficial to a thirsty man, does it follow that it will be

beneficial to a man who has fever and therefore feels thirsty?

E: Your illustration is not fair. There is nothing to show that a special

rule of conduct prescribed for a particular caste will be injurious to others,

who do not belong to that caste or to any caste at all.

A: On the other hand, you must realise that there is nothing to show that a

special rule of conduct prescribed for a particular caste will be beneficial to

others. For, the mere fact that it is prescribed for that caste makes it a

special law and, therefore, not applicable to the generality of mankind. If the

Sastras are our only guide for telling us that a particular line of conduct is

beneficial, we cannot throw them over board when they tell us in the same breath

for whom it is beneficial. Our system and, in fact, any system which aims at

the regulation of conduct must be based on the principle of adhikara or

competency. Those who belong to the castes are competent to purse the Visesha

Dharma; the others are competent to pursue only Samanya Dharma. Further, the

nature of the competency required can be learnt only from the Sastras which

prescribe the Dharma.

E: If the Hindu Sastras are to be taken as the guide for all humanity and if

all persons born are, in your view, born in your religion, how do you account

for the prevalence of other faiths?

A: It is their fault that they do not recognise that they are but aspects of

Sanatana Dharma. The highest teachings of any other religion do find a place in

our religion and are but a phase of the ordinary law laid down there.

E: Don't you think, Swamiji, that your claim will sound somewhat over-high and

that the others may not be disposed to concede it?

A: The disposition of others to concede the claim of Hinduism is quite beside

the point, for the intrinsic worth of anything is always there whether one

recognises it or not. As for the claim being high, I desire to point out to you

that I cannot possibly put it lower.

E: How is that?

A: Please bear with me if I take Christianity as an example to illustrate my

point. If belief in the personality of Christ is a necessary condition of

salvation, we must be prepared to say that all those persons who have lived

before the time of Jesus have been denied the benefit of salvation for no fault

of theirs and simply because they happened to be born when Jesus was yet unborn.

The same reasoning would deny salvation to those who have lived even at the same

time as Jesus or since that time, but may not have even heard of him. Further,

don't you think it very unfair on the part of God that He should suddenly wake

up on a particular day and prescribe for all mankind a necessary condition for

salvation? Did he forget that the people who had the misfortune to be born

before Jesus, had souls to save? If He did not forget, did He take care to

prescribe for them the means necessary to enable them to attain salvation? If He

did so prescribe, His prescription could not possibly

have included a belief in the Jesus to be born. Therefore, the only, logical

hypothesis, which a reasonable man can accept is that God, even when He created

the first man (if there was such a time), Himself simultaneously promulgated

also the means for his salvation, for even the first man was certainly in need

of salvation. We accordingly say of our Vedas that they were co-eval with the

first man (not in the sense that they were created together, for we believe that

there was no first creation and that everything is beginningless, but in the

sense that they were co-existing) and that they are the revelations of God

Himself. Any religion which traces its origin from a later time, any time after

creation, and from any teacher other than God, is bound to be imperfect and

short-lived.

 

(some portions on Revelation, etc. skipped)

 

 

The Practical Guide

 

E: What then, Swamiji, is your practical advice to me?

A: You believe in God?

E: I do.

A: You believe in the wisdom of God?

E: Certainly.

A: You believe that that wisdom will be impressed in every act of God?

E: Of course.

A: You grant that that wisdom must be apparent even in giving you birth?

E: It must be.

A: God then had a purpose, a wise purpose, in giving you birth?

E: I should think so. Even my birth, insignificant though it may be when

compared with the vast interest of the world, cannot be purposeless.

A: God had a purpose, a wise purpose in giving you birth as the child of a

particular set of parents?

E: That must be. I do not believe in chance.

A: What more patent purpose need be sought after to explain your being born of

Christian parents than that in God's view Christianity was the best suited to

one of your competency? The Lord in His supreme wisdom can well be relied upon

to judge what is the religion best suited for us. He knows that our poor

intellect will be helpless in deciding for us the path which we should tread.

He takes upon Himself the responsibility of deciding that path and gives us

birth in a country, clime, time and faith best suited for us. Why should we

ignore this gracious mercy of the Lord and try to do the impossible by

comparing the relative values of the several religions?

E: I have tried to understand Christianity and follow it to the best of my

lights, but very many doubts are cropping up now and then and I have not been

able to meet anybody who can solve them. That is why I wanted to study other

religions.

A: Doubts can never be solved unless you approach the persons who have not

merely studied their religion but are daily living it. For the purpose of

trade, you are prepared to cross the seas and explore the air, but for the

purpose of Truth, you want the teachers to come to your door and solve your

doubts for you. The attitude that religion is an interesting side aspect of

life must go. If once you realise that religion is life itself and not an

aspect of it, you will begin to explore the entire world earnestly for a proper

teacher. He is ever available and is only waiting for a symptom of real

earnestness in you. I am not prepared to believe that there are no such

teachers in Christianity. They may not be in the ordinary world of strife, for

such a world does not want them nor have they any use for such a world. They

may sometimes be found even in the midst of strife, as strife cannot injure

them. Go, therefore, in search of such true Christians and ask them in true

humbleness of heart to solve your doubts. They will do so in no time and you

will find that God, in spite of your doubts, was after all justified in making

you the child of Christian parents.

E: I cannot sufficiently thank you, Swamiji, for your kind words of advice.

Please allow me to confess that when I came here I had no idea that I would be

going away from you with a sincere desire to be a better Christian. But that is

the desire which you have inculcated in me. If your aim is to make a Christian

a better Christian, a Hindu a better Hindu, and so on, your religion is

certainly more catholic than I thought it was. In parting, may I have your

gracious blessings?

A: Blessings are the monopoly of God and we must all pray for His gracious

blessings. Please let me once more point out to you that God has already

blessed you with a good physique, a virile mind and a keen intellect. An

artist, howsoever capable, provided though he may be with the finest of colours

and the finest of brushes and even though he may have thought out the finest of

subjects, cannot paint a picture on vacant air. He does require a stable

background, be it a canvas or a wall, however crude and worthless. Don't waste

therefore your gifts on airy speculations as to the relative value of the

various religions. Apply your God-given gifts on the stable background of your

God-chosen faith, Christianity. When the painting is completed and you

contemplate its beauty, the background will fade away from your view of its own

accord. But not till then. Remember that.

End.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Subbu:

 

The book on "Dialogues with the Guru" has many interesting

discussions and I do not remember that it has addressed issues with

respect to the debate on the Varna System. The primary question

related to the Varna is whether it is equivalent to the

present "Caste System"? The answer is obviously no and everyone

participated in the debate do seem to agree that birth origin alone

did not determine one's Varnadharma. The debaters also seem to agree

that.the "dharma" and "Varna" both have been degenerating. There is

also some historic evidence supporting the view that foreign

occupation/influence are also partly responsible for the

degeneration. The bottom line for us is to accept that we are fully

responsible for the social evils exhibited in the present "Caste

System."

 

One of the reasons for equating the "caste system" to "Varnadharma"

is our difficulty to separate the "Sanatana Dharma" with the social

and cultural practices of the people of India. The following

excerpts from the book, "The Vedas," by Kanchi Kamakoti

Mahaswamigal, Chandrasekaharendra Saraswati illustrates the fact

that we are mostly ignorant about our religion:

 

"What is the authoritative book on which one's religion is based?

People of other religions can unhesitatingly reply to this question.

The Christians call it the `Bible'; the Mohemmdans call it

the `Koran'; to the Buddhists it is `Dharmapada'; and to the Parsees,

the `Zend Avesta'. But for us Hindus, there is no similar ready

answer because it is not a single book; nor is the authorship

attributed to any human being.

………………..

If we learn the essential texts of our religion even in our childhood

as other religionists are doing, we will not be doubting about our

religious texts, nor will we have the present-day ignorance about

them. " (The entire chapter 1 of the book pages 1 to 7 discusses the

importance of learning and understanding our religion.)

 

This book (published by the Bharatia Vidya Bhavan, Bombay also

provides a chart describing the details of books that are relevant

for understanding Sanatanadharma (Hinduism). This may explain why

westerners neither understand nor appreciate the Hindu Heritage. The

answer to the question, what is "Hinduism" requires more careful

reading and understanding of the "Hindu Scriptures." The Varnadharma

can only be understood if we have clear understanding of

Sanatanadharma.

 

Harih Om!

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin, V Subrahmanian <subrahmanian_v

wrote:

>

> Namaste to all Advaitins:

> The current debate on the Varna system brought up many

questions. Many of the questions, I felt, are answered well in the

book titled 'Dialogues w

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

advaitin, "Ram Chandran" <ramvchandran

wrote:

 

> The following excerpts from the book, "The Vedas," by

> Kanchi Kamakoti Mahaswamigal, Chandrasekaharendra Saraswati

> illustrates the fact that we are mostly ignorant about our

> religion ..... The entire chapter 1 of the book pages 1 to

> 7 discusses the importance of learning and understanding

> our religion...... This book (published by the Bharatia

> Vidya Bhavan, Bombay also provides a chart describing the

> details of books that are relevant for understanding

> Sanatanadharma (Hinduism).

 

 

The book 'The Vedas' is a compilation (and English translation) of a

series of lectures given by the Kanchi Kamakoti Mahaswamigal,

Chandrasekaharendra Saraswati, in Tamil. The book contains only a small

part the Swamigal's lectures, and the entire series of lectures have

been compiled as a Tamil work called 'Deivattin Kural'. The first two

volumes of this Tamil work have been translated into English and

brought out as a book titled 'Hindu Dharma - the Universal Way of

Life'. It is an 800-page compendium of Hinduism, and in my opinion

there is no better book in English that covers such a breadth and range

of topics related to Sanatana Dharma as does this book. It is a

treasure house, a vast tapestry that knits together the various factes

of our religion into one whole. It is of course meant for an Indian

reader, but it may be read by anyone that is interested in knowing what

Hindu Dharma is, or how Hindu Dharma was looked upon by its own

adherents before hundred of years of neglect by Hindus (themselves),

combined with the dubious researches of the Indologists, created a

murkiness that has dislodged its meanings from our minds. The book

describes the entire varnashrama system.

 

Warm regards,

Chittaranjan

[Guest guest]

Ram Chandran <ramvchandran wrote: Namaste Sri Subbu:

 

When this topic was referred to some time back, mentioning the castiest views

of some of the religious men, did you not, or some member of the censorboard,

say, sir, that this was sheer gossip, and was not related to advaita? May I

seek justification for your transgressing your own avowed objectives.

Sankarraman

 

 

 

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