Guest guest Posted December 27, 2001 Report Share Posted December 27, 2001 Jai Gurudev Dear all, What I have noticed is that most of the people here are more interested in knowing about what the different sadhanas are and what benifits they give.. but where is the quest for the self? Is this because most of the people here already know the self? If so I sure am sorry to have sent this mail.. but if it is not so.. then where are the questions about self and how to get to know the self? This group has more to get solutions of the worldly problems. i do understand that it is a part of life.. but how does one aim to solve the material problem with spirituality without understanding the essence of spirituality? Jai Gurudev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2002 Report Share Posted January 3, 2002 pls give me some time to reply, lot of things to catch up , "thesoulstealer" <thesoulstealer> wrote: > Jai Gurudev > > Dear all, > > What I have noticed is that most of the people here are more > interested in knowing about what the different sadhanas are and what > benifits they give.. but where is the quest for the self? > > Is this because most of the people here already know the self? If so > I sure am sorry to have sent this mail.. but if it is not so.. then > where are the questions about self and how to get to know the self? > > This group has more to get solutions of the worldly problems. i do > understand that it is a part of life.. but how does one aim to solve > the material problem with spirituality without understanding the > essence of spirituality? > > > Jai Gurudev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2002 Report Share Posted January 3, 2002 --What I have noticed is that most of the people here are more interested in knowing about what the different sadhnas are and what benefits they give.. but where is the quest for the self? jai GURUDEV you cannot force the quest for self, either it is there or it not there. if it is not there why pretend? i believe that GOD should have known what he was doing when he created me. i am sure while creating me, he would have thought about how to get me back, it is not my problem.... You know, brother, i have spent unknowingly quite a lot of time in this philosophy business, but it is the driest and the most boring way of getting to GOD. what happens is this most people (atleast i) have very little real pure satva in them. they hide their tamsikta in this quest for self, and higher ideals and morals. Vivekanda gives a clear example of arjun refusing to fight (i think complete works vol I but am not sure), he interprets it as a fear of the large army ahead of him, which he hides behind my relatives, my dear ones etc.. i fully agree with that interpretation. he was not being satvik in refusing to fight. have you heard the simple bhajan main gyaan ki baaton me khoya aur karamheen ban kar soya have you wondered why dharma comes before arth kaam and moksh?? people living in the material world, will not even be able to enjoy arth and kaam if they are not following their own dharma. while the gyaanis sit and discuss where is the goal and what is it, and whether it is this or that, or here or there, or positive or neutral. the karma yogi simply arrives there. whether i do sadhnas for for my wealth ,or my moksha. the net result is the same. my personal conclusion is that while members bother a lot about eating a microgram of egg in a biscuit, or not shaving, not this that, get up at brahmamahurat etc nobody will achieve success in their sadhnas until they are following the path of their dharma. dharma is simply doing the duty in life in which you are placed honestly and sincerely. even if it is done with pride and for selfish gains. because selflessness is difficult to practice, if you can do it great! the point is that it has been heard so often that it has lost it's impact. if you think you will forego some of your duties to do sadhnas, forget about success. if you forego pleasures of any kind (netsurfing, TV!!??) it will produce fast results. we worry so much about doing good deeds, but forget that doing our basic duties is the best deed. you know, a simple realization can liberate us mortals from the bonds of karma. because all karma good and bad has to be burnt out before we realize the self. i heard from the mouth of a very illuminated soul that if you want to give any one any gyaan for his welfare and wish him good it will produce effect only if in that giving there is no stench of your ego-- ahem chi boo an ho. otherwise, it will be wasted. if you think that these words from your mouth are coming from an inspiration deep within they will definitely produce the desired results. in those words lies the secret of liberation. so in essence while we live selfishly 24 hers, start by living 15 minutes unselfishly. try to do good deeds. in the begining if you are facing serious problems in your life you will still hope to impress GOD by this activity. let it continue, and do not give up if you find your happiness. if not in this life, after 5 lives it will become a subconscious habit, and you will loose the selfish motive part. when making a small donation try to think that GOD is helping this person to through you and you are merely an instrument, be grateful that he chose you. but how does one aim to solve the material problem with spirituality without understanding the essence of spirituality? that is where we are being "duped" into spirituality. people come with a desire to solve material problems. but what do you think they are doing when you chant mantras? you are awakening your spiritual side. without it being awakened to an extent no success even material will come to the person. so the motive is more important than the actual action. here e.g. all members are asked to do prachaar of patrika and they do so. there can be various motives 1) they are my GURU's orders, no questions.-- i strongly doubt if this nachiketa kind breed exists. 2) i have found something good, and i want to share it with others to help them. -good motive-- will give them positive results 3)i will do prachaar even if i am not convinced of something yet just because it will help me in my sadhnas -- result a selfish negative karma added to their disadvantage. we will happily do prachaar but will not chant single mala for GUJRAT quake victims e.g. GURUJi never tells us to do that, GURUji only askd to make magazine members... Is this because most of the people here already know the self? If so I sure am sorry to have sent this mail.. but if it is not so.. then where are the questions about self and how to get to know the self? my conclusion for myself is : i am not interested in moksha even 1 %. i am also not interested in going to siddhashram. i am also not interested in being one with GOD. i am here to live my life, and i have not chosen the path of a saint, a sadhu. i want to immerse myself in so much activity that everything else is forgotten, even if the activity is directed towards selfish ends, it is better than being akarmanya.. i realize that making it unselfish will help me, and i will try. i will try to lead as moral a life as is possible within my human limits, accepting that i am not above mistakes, however, if i make any, i will try to correct myself in the future, simply because negative karma produces pain (Selfish motive).. if i can follow the path of dharma as much as i can, enjoy arth and kaam by doing sadhnas if needed, moksha will take care of itself. i cannot seek what i do not understand. i cannot do it under (what i call peer pressure), just because others are seeking it, or believe they should. i will happily return to earth again and again till the desire for life is there. if it ever takes the shape of virakti, i will give up the world, but right now it i very far for me. so honesty is better than hypocrisy. This group has more to get solutions of the worldly problems. i do understand that it is a part of life.. but how does one aim to solve the material problem with spirituality without understanding the essence of spirituality? by the way in typing this mail, i am running away from my own dharma. that is why practicing is a lot more important than preaching and discussing. good wishes, anu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2002 Report Share Posted January 8, 2002 Namaste Anu! What a truly inspiring mail. For a long time I was a an armchair philospher who read a lot and could speak a lot(like some Marxists commentators)- it did not lead me anywhere other than to build a large ego structure. I thought that yantras, mantras and yajnas were for lesser mortals. These concepts are further reinforced by some pseudo Vedantist thinkers that all that matters is the self(who themselves were in great dubiosity as to what the self is). And to make matters worse, the people who you usually see as having a prolific interest in mantras etc is a village bumpkin who is an absolute caricature and utterly uninspiring. How then can you expect young people to have interest in Hindu ideals when there are no role models around to follows. But every once there comes a person- a satguru who is like the sun dispelling darkness and suddenly ego self dries out- and you are dumbfounded as well as confounded; and suddenly you realise that you are an empty vessel making a lot of noise. So in my opinion, unless there is the guidance of a self realised guru, everthing looks topsy turvy. So Vijay Bhasker, find someone who can lead you; if you do self-intropsection yourself, it is like going in circles. All of the puranas- I dont know if the stories in them are correct or not but they are only a tool that will lead you somewhere(I will write later on this). To learn to use this tool you need a guru. Most people who claim to be self seekers have deep emotional issues and the self is the last thing that they are really interested in. If not, you would be living in a cave in Rishikes because that is where someone with intense vairagya would be. Since Vijay Bhasker, you appear to be of a scientific mind, I will give you an instance of how ignorant we are- today in neurophysiology, the study of brain waves(frequency of vibration of the brain) has made great strides. There are 4 waves beta(this is where most people are), alpha, theta and delta. Beta is when you are really not in good state, when you are in beta problem solving becomes difficult .... The next is alpha- this is where most meditators are and when you are in this region you are at the peak of your performance, you get a lot of insights etc. The next is theta- this is an even deeper state that advanced meditators can go into and you get even bigger insights. Delta is a really deep state- this is where you in the deepest sleep. Now I am sure that everybody has the experience of having a difficult problem to solve and you are spending days trying to solve the problem. After many many days, suddently you get a tremendous insight and the solution to the problem is revealed to you.(most great scientific insights are discovered this way). At this moment, if you look at the brain wave pattern, it would be what is called "whole mind pattern" where there is a certain combination of alpha, beta, theta and delta. The patterns opens a gate to your unconscious mind and you can tap into the knowledge of your superconscious mind. Being in this state gives you immense joy(the joy does not come from having solved the problem at hand). Now this "whole mind pattern" which most people very rarely get, saints and yogis are always in this state!! And if you ask why there are not solving scientific mysteries which they could easily do so,they have bigger fish to catch. So just think about how ignorant we are. And there is an even bigger brain wave pattern, this is called the awakened mind pattern; this happens when the yogi is in samadhi. This is really out of reach for the average human being. So taken in a sense, all religions teaching appear to be contradictory and does not make sense. You need someone who has reached the end of his journey to coach you just the same a kid goes to school to learn. How would you feel if the kid says to the teacher- all what you teaching you is nonsense, I know much more than you do...:-) Please dont misunderstand me, I dont mean to pontificate. I am also a kid who is need of a teacher but I know that I am kid not the teacher. Aum Namasivaya Vijay --- devi_bhagat <devi_bhagat wrote: > --What I have noticed is that most of the people > here are more > interested in knowing about what the different > sadhnas are and what > benefits they give.. but where is the quest for the > self? > > jai GURUDEV > you cannot force the quest for self, either it is > there or it not > there. if it is not there why pretend? i believe > that GOD should have > known what he was doing when he created me. i am > sure while creating > me, he would have thought about how to get me back, > it is not my > problem.... > You know, brother, i have spent unknowingly quite a > lot of time in > this philosophy business, but it is the driest and > the most boring way > of getting to GOD. what happens is this most people > (atleast i) have > very little real pure satva in them. they hide their > tamsikta in this > quest for self, and higher ideals and morals. > > Vivekanda gives a clear example of arjun refusing to > fight (i think > complete works vol I but am not sure), he interprets > it as a fear of > the large army ahead of him, which he hides behind > my relatives, > my dear ones etc.. i fully agree with that > interpretation. he was not > being satvik in refusing to fight. > > have you heard the simple bhajan > > main gyaan ki baaton me khoya > aur karamheen ban kar soya > > > have you wondered why dharma comes before arth kaam > and moksh?? > people living in the material world, will not even > be able to enjoy > arth and kaam if they are not following their own > dharma. while the > gyaanis sit and discuss where is the goal and what > is it, and > whether it is this or that, or here or there, or > positive or neutral. > the karma yogi simply arrives there. whether i do > sadhnas for for my > wealth ,or my moksha. the net result is the same. > > my personal conclusion is that while members bother > a lot about eating > a microgram of egg in a biscuit, or not shaving, > not this that, get > up at brahmamahurat etc nobody will achieve success > in > their sadhnas until they are following the path of > their dharma. > dharma is simply doing the duty in life in which you > are placed > honestly and sincerely. even if it is done with > pride and for selfish > gains. because selflessness is difficult to > practice, if you can do it > great! the point is that it has been heard so often > that it has lost > it's impact. if you think you will forego some of > your duties to do > sadhnas, forget about success. if you forego > pleasures of any kind > (netsurfing, TV!!??) it will produce fast results. > we worry so much > about doing good deeds, but forget that doing our > basic > duties is the best deed. > > you know, a simple realization can liberate us > mortals from the bonds > of karma. because all karma good and bad has to be > burnt out before we > realize the self. i heard from the mouth of a very > illuminated soul > that if you want to give any one any gyaan for his > welfare and wish > him good it will produce effect only if in that > giving there is no > stench of your ego-- ahem chi boo an ho. otherwise, > it will be wasted. > if you think that these words from your mouth are > coming from an > inspiration deep within they will definitely produce > the desired > results. > > in those words lies the secret of liberation. > so in essence while we live selfishly 24 hers, start > by living 15 > minutes unselfishly. try to do good deeds. in the > begining if you are > facing serious problems in your life you will still > hope to impress > GOD by this activity. let it continue, and do not > give up if you find > your happiness. if not in this life, after 5 lives > it will become a > subconscious habit, and you will loose the selfish > motive part. when > making a small donation try to think that GOD is > helping this person > to through you and you are merely an instrument, be > grateful that he > chose you. > > > but how does one aim to solve the material problem > with spirituality > without understanding the essence of spirituality? > > that is where we are being "duped" into > spirituality. people come with > a desire to solve material problems. but what do you > think they are > doing when you chant mantras? you are awakening your > spiritual side. > without it being awakened to an extent no success > even material will > come to the person. > > so the motive is more important than the actual > action. here e.g. all > members are asked to do prachaar of patrika and they > do so. there can > be various motives > > 1) they are my GURU's orders, no questions.-- i > strongly doubt if > this nachiketa kind breed > exists. > > 2) i have found something good, and i want to share > it with others to > help them. -good motive-- > will give them positive results > > 3)i will do prachaar even if i am not convinced of > something yet just > because it will help me in my sadhnas -- result a > selfish negative > karma added to their disadvantage. we will happily > do > prachaar but will not chant single mala for GUJRAT > quake victims e.g. > GURUJi never tells us to do that, GURUji only askd > to make magazine > members... > > > Is this because most of the people > here already know > the self? If so I sure am sorry to have sent this > mail.. but if it is > not so.. then where are the questions about self > and how to get to > know the self? > > my conclusion for myself is : i am not interested in > moksha even 1 %. > i am also not interested in going to siddhashram. i > am also not > interested in being one with GOD. i am here to live > my life, > and i have not chosen the path of a saint, a sadhu. > i want to immerse > myself in so much activity that everything else is > forgotten, even if > the activity is directed towards selfish ends, it is > better than > being akarmanya.. i realize that making it unselfish > will help me, and > i will try. i will try to lead as moral a life as > is possible within > my human limits, accepting that i am not above > mistakes, however, > if i make any, i will try to correct myself in the > future, simply > because negative karma produces pain (Selfish > motive).. if i can > follow the path of dharma as much as i can, enjoy > arth and kaam by > doing sadhnas if needed, moksha will take care of > itself. i cannot > seek what i do not understand. i cannot do it under > (what i call peer > pressure), just because others are seeking it, or > believe === message truncated === Send FREE video emails in Mail! http://promo./videomail/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2002 Report Share Posted January 8, 2002 , Yoga man <childofdevi> wrote: > > Namaste Anu! namaste, the truth is that i am only good at talking. i have yet to implement my own "teachings". that is where the whole problem comes in. i will the day i am strong enough only open my mouth after implementing whati say. meanwhile i will pass this wisdom on to sadhak, it has not come easily to me. after a lot of problems and a lot of analysis i have reached three conclusions by the grace of god. i wrote this to a friend. i am going to post them on sadhak now wishesanu jai gurudev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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