Guest guest Posted January 8, 2002 Report Share Posted January 8, 2002 Dear Ashish, >Scientific analysis requires intense knowledge of science and the concerned subject. >Have you considered asking yourself; "Who am I?", "Why am I?"? Also, why limit our thoughts to only Vishnu and Shiv? What about Bramha? What about mother Bhuvaneshwari? True. It sure does require an intense knowledge of various subjects. I do agree with you, as it is not possible for an individual to be an expert in all aspects of science to sit and analyze various theories and come to a conclusion. But with the limited knowledge I have on some of the subjects, I did try and analyze things metaphorically and not "implied". When it comes to spiritual subjects, where there is little or no documented evidence of how things work, one can only be sure based on his/her own experience. This too is greatly influenced by a lot of factors including our upbringing, or our sphere of growth. As said in a lot of movies and novels and even ancient scriptures, no one belongs to a caste based on the birth, but based on the work. The caste system is one of the biggest examples of mass psychological orientation towards a specific channel. The same applies to religion also. So a person from child-hood is subjected to these so-called “social norms” of caste and religion. When this person grows up with these “norms” and also subjected to other things like our education system, he is totally confused about spirituality and the concept of “self” leave alone Vishnu, Shiv and other gods and goddesses. Who has “seen” a soul? Can it be described in any way? Is one persons description of a soul same as other persons description? It is similar to the Government subjection all the salt manufactures to put iodine in them to prevent throat related diseases. But there is enough scientific proof that iodine is a carcinogenic substance and its vapors, which evolve when salt is stored in jars and other containers, are very harmful to all. The concept of a soul is such. Where it is subjected to one and all because of a few people who have the access to subjecting their belief on a lot of people. This process continues as others come into the market of “soul solution” and make money in the name of god. So where should one go and what should one believe? Your reasoning is true from your perspective as what you have believed is different from what I have believed. So when it comes to the soul, it is only a metaphorical concept and not a total scientific concept. I can only compare two or more things to get “my” view of things. It may be wrong but who can tell the truth? >In Hindu Mythology, you'll find incidents where each one of Bramha, Vishnu, Shiv has given maximum boon to someone. Moreover, Vishnu never took his "avatar" to destroy someone who received boon.He took his "avatar" to guide humans, give them knowledge and destroy those who had misused their powers. There are many other incidents where Shiv and Bramha took "avatar". Our mythology again is mostly misinterpreted. We offer animal sacrifices to Goddess Kali, but not Lord Rama. Is that not a strange thing because, Goddess Kali killed the demon in the form of a buffalo, but where does it say that all buffalos are the demon? In fact it was Lord Rama who should be offered such sacrifices because he and his brother used to hunt for wild life in the jungle for food. They never did any farming in the jungle to cook and eat proper vegetarian food. They used to hunt to eat. Why are these things not highlighted? Does this not mean selective interpretation? How did Lord Rama and Lord Krishna guide humans? What lessons should we interpret as lessons to be learnt? Should we learn the righteousness of Rama or the flirtations and stealing of Krishna? Is Rama really righteous? He was the king so he need not have sent his wife away. So what should we learn? Is this not a misinterpretation of our mythology? Krishna was always competing with Shakuni to counter his plots. Should we consider Mahabharata as a great political epic and follow the same things? Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. This applies to all animate and in-animate objects around us. So should it not mean that one good deed deserves a bad deed? Now why should the people who receive a boon misuse their powers? Is God so stupid that he gave the boon to a person who had the potential of committing actions against human race? God should have refused the boon in the first place itself to prevent the sufferings of so many. Or is it that he gets a sadistic pleasure of playing “Robin Hood” – stealing the rich to help the poor? Or like many of our political friends who have known to induce violence and then come in all their glory to pacify the people to play the hero? Who is to justify these? Another person who misinterprets our mythology? >According to Hindu Mythology; Bramha is the creator, Vishnu is the operator and Shiv is the destroyer. How come in Mythology the “Mritunjay Mantra” is based on Lord Shiva? Does that mean that he will over rule the words of Bramha to give eternal life to persons who chant the mantra? If Vishnu is the Operator, than what does he operate on? What are his set rules? Or is Vishnu a balance between Bramha and Shiva? > > he is an energy form who is so nutral, > that none can touch him. Scientifically, you can touch neutral things. Everything tends to become neutral that's why we find compounds rather easily than elements. > he is very intense in his nutrality. Intensity is not a feature of neutrality. Simple science I do agree with you on these grounds of scientific reasoning. I stand Corrected. But again I was referring to these only from a metaphorical sense. > Vishnu can be considered as the sun. According to Hindu Mythology, Vishnu and Sun are different. > the magnitude of each ray of the sun is equal. > When the sun rays reaches earth, it is spread > everywhere equally with equal intensity. Then, why do we have diverse places like the two poles and Sahara desert? Surya Narayana is Vishnu in the form of the sun. We do have poles and deserts because of physical and environmental reasons. In outer space, the intensity of the sun remains the same. > These rrays cannot burn us because the heat > is comfortable, and not scorching. Have you ever heard of Sun Burns, deaths due to heat waves and sun screen lotions? Have you ever been to a desert? Scientific analysis should be universally applicable. I have heard of sun-burns and sun screen lotions, and I have been to deserts. It is just the adaptation which counts here. I will not be able to bend my body, twist and turn as much as Jacke Chan does only because I am not trained that way, but the human body does follow the universal laws of gravity and other things. Sun burns, frost bite etc can be countered on Planet earth by taking appropriate measures. There is no heat wave if you are in an air-conditioned place. How come only some are affected from malaria, while those with sickle-celled anemia are the carriers of the disease? >Scientifically; feelings, emotions, touch, smell, pain, hunger etc. are all electro-magnetic pulses interpreted by our brain. These electro magnetic impulses can be misinterpreted due to various physical and psychological reasons, including the usage of drugs and hypnotism. > If we focus the sun light to onepoint, with the > lense, it immediately burns anything which comes > at the concentrated centre of the point. Try focussing the sun light on a rock. I have done that and the rock does become hot at that area.. but the heat is absorbed by the rock. It is some thing like focusing the sunlight on water and expecting it to boil. > So shiva is the concentrated form of vishnu, who > is present everywhere like the sun light. Then, what about nights when we don't have sun light around us? Are you saying that Gods are effective only during the day and that too, in broad daylight and not in rainy season? My comparison is metaphorical. >>If no one thinks about Vishnu, then what about those two little kids, Prahllad and Dhruv? What about Tulsi? Also, why do we perform Satya Narayan Pujan. Also, in Kanakdhara Strotra, godess Mahalaxmi is worshiped as Vishnu-Patni. Kanakdhara Strotra is recited in front of a Shaligram, a form of Vishnu. Your name suggests that you are a south indian. Ever been to Tirupati? But did these people in our mythology do any evil deeds? How can we sit and justify that shiva gives boons to all bad people and Vishnu to all good people? >> According to our Guruji, Dr. Narayan Dutt Shrimali, we are born as "Shav" (corpse) and we must become "Shiv" (alive, complete). According to you we are neutral and neutral is Shiv. Then, why Shiv makes us +ve or -ve when we are already what we must become? Yes I do believe that we already are shiv. These +ve and –ve are our inability to overcome our feelings and attachments for things around us. >> I am sure, you don't know the meaning of "Sharanagati". Yes I do not know what “sharanagati” is. Can you please explain it to me? I want to know how it is to feel “sharanagati”. >> We are born because we are not Vishnu or Shiv. Only the time of our birth and death has been predetermined. For everything else (our karm which decides whether we would be re-born) we are given a brain and a concious. Our sole purpose, for all births, is to become complete. Once we attain the objective, we are not reborn. Who predetermines our birth and death? And Why? Who decides about our Karma? Why should we be born in the first place – to be decided if we should be re-born or not? >>> Hindu Religion existed long before Gita was conceived. Gita, Vedas or any other holy book is not religion. They simply help someone follow a religion. Who created this religion? Why should we follow these books only? Just because they were written on that particular religion? >> Sorry friend, your "scientific" theory has many flaws. Maybe, you should study things more with a universal perspective. Look for your answers inside yourself rather than looking outside. Try performing any sadhana. I do agree that any theory will have its flaws. What is this universal perspective? How does a person look for an answer inside ones own self? Can anyone teach me this? Will I get an answer about what “sharanagati” is if I look into myself? Will my experience be the same as yours? How do I know that if I don’t look outside myself and inside you? Why should I do a sadhana? And what sadhana should I do? I am really happy that I am getting a lot more answers from your interaction to my theories. I thank you for that. Vijay Bhaskar Send FREE video emails in Mail! http://promo./videomail/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2002 Report Share Posted January 12, 2002 Dear Vijay Bhaskar, 1) >Scientific analysis requires intense knowledge of >cience and the concerned >ubject. >Have you considered asking yourself; "Who am I?", >Why am I?"? Also, >hy limit our thoughts to only Vishnu and Shiv? What >bout Bramha? >hat about mother Bhuvaneshwari? >True. It sure does require an intense knowledge of >various subjects. I do agree with you, as it is not >possible for an individual to be an expert in all >aspects of science to sit and analyze various >theories a) How can you conclude lord, on basis of such limited knowledge/limitations, iam not trying to discourage u but what i tell is that with our limited mind,how can we deal with intricacies of the nature/universe, did you ever make an effort to identify the tools,effort that you would require if you wanted to analyse such big thing as God/Universe, did you ever theoratize on the nature of the tools,its characterstics. its same as looking into stars require a telescope and mere eyes are not enough, if you start speculating theories abt the stars with the things you see just by eye(not even telescope), or can you sail in the ocean with the small boat you use in the river ,how valid and strong it is.how is it possible? 2) > and come to a conclusion. But with the limited >knowledge I have on some of the subjects, I did try >and analyze things metaphorically and not "implied". >When it comes to spiritual subjects, where there is >little or no documented evidence of how things work, >one can only be sure based on his/her own experience. >This too is greatly influenced by a lot of factors >including our upbringing, or our sphere of growth. a) its nice that you have identified in spritualism things go by experience, but why are you linking the experiences in spiritualism to the influence of factors like upbringing, so on soforth,all peopel in the world have similar spirtual experiences, love is the same lord is the same, sadguru is the same, go into tattva, lord may attain different forms , but his tattva/attributes remain the same. there is only one samadhi state, buddhist nirvana is same as the hindu brahmatva, there are different paths jnana, bhakti, raja,karma.... but all of them end in love and all of them get to the same state .all tributaries get into river and all rivers into the sea, dont get lost in this initial details... always have the big picture in mind at every step you take, this would solve all the differences and confusion that arise. 3) > As said in a lot of movies and novels and even >ancient >scriptures, no one belongs to a caste based on the > birth, but based on the work. The caste system is one >of the biggest examples of mass psychological >orientation towards a specific channel. The same >applies to religion also. a) good observation, did you ever analyze why is there a mass psychological orientation to specific channel, dont you see some sort of animal behaviour here, though we have the potential to be the lord/siva we are not that , having potential dosent mean that you are that , it only means that by your effort you can become that ,so potential lacks the effort,say india has potential to send some man to moon, it dosent mean that india has sent a man to moon, you have to train the cosmanut, you have to integrate various technologies that you have , customize them , test them, you see lot of work. we are animals in human form, that is the reason you can see lot of visible animal behaviour/form in various humans, did u observe that ..that is the reason every now and then some divine soul is born in form of sadguru/prophet to remind us what we are and to take us to the place where we belong.how can a common man who is just like us inspire to the infinite goal. 4) > So a person from child-hood is subjected to these >so-called "social norms" of caste and >religion. When >this person grows up with these "norms" and >also >subjected to other things like our education system, >he is totally confused about spirituality and the >concept of "self" leave alone Vishnu, Shiv >and other >gods and goddesses. a)good observation once again, initally there is always a confusion and chaos until you attain that state there is chaos though magnitude of intensity decreases with every sincere step.dont always looks forward try to look backward also you will feel the progress that would inspire u further. i think lord had given us the all the facilites and oppurtunites . i too went thru the exercise of trying to reorient my self , it takes years of persistent thinking and effort, we cant change the system to that state , so its better to change ourselves to that state, saints with good intentions have written relegious books to remind god, but often people misinterpret or dont follow it properly, if some person who is responisble in power misinterprets and forces wrong dogmad due to his limitations, why blame the relegion. you should rebel aganist the people who practise it. 5) >Who has "seen" a soul? Can it be described in any way? > Is one persons description of a soul same as other > persons description? a)soul is to be experienced, as you urself have told that sprituaism things have to be expereienced, even evidence can be shown, but you have to make a specilal effort, arjuna was shown what krishna is , that is the evidence, otherwise he was thinking that krishna was just an ordinary personality,so every one is not lucky as arjuna, besides arjuna also came to that position after doing certain amount of tapas in his earlier lives,its not the case that you have a different soul and i have a different soul , all relegions /realised being experienced that soul is one.That is the advita phoilosophy of sankaracharya,all buddist saints attain only one nirvana state/Buddahood there is no different nirvana for each person, my friend pls try to understand that states are universal and paths leading to that are multitude. love is a state, nirvana is a state all these can be reached by various ways.You have to recognise 2 things 1) CONTEXT 2) STATE 3) ACTION , Now we will formulate some rules, 1) A CONTEXT belongs to a STATE. 2) A STATE has 'N' contexts. 3) A STATE can be UNDERSTOOD/EXPRESSED by CONTEXT. 4) EVERY CONTEXT has an ACTION element. 4) An ACTION can belong to more than One state. you cant substitute each with other, both are complementary. .. we will take a case for ex person A killing a person B, this is an action ,so we will apply 3 contexts and 2 states this action ACTION a person KILLING b person CONTEXTS 1)Rama killed ravana2)bombay police killed some henchman in fire exchange 3) A Brother killed his other brothers for attaining kingship ( iam unable to think any particular example) STATES 1) welfare of the people 2) greed for power let us apply all the 3 STATE CONTEXTS ACTION 1)welfare of the people a) Rama Killed Ravana A person Killing b b)police killed henchmen killing 2) greed for power a)a brother killed other killing brothers for kingship you may argue that action should be a state , its more appropriate to say that action is stateless because it cant be just tied to one state. Now you can see the difference, so dont apply one to each other,SOUL IS A STATE WHICH HAS DIFFERENT NAMES CALLED NIRVANA/BUDDAHOOD/BRHAMTVA so when ever you want to analyse some thing identify this 3 imp elements thing would be clear for you So understand the intention behind the acion in a context you will have and basically your intention/motive should be genuine...if u are not able to decide that on ur own with some effort take the help of some trusted person, if you dont have a sadguru,turn to scriputres read some examples. i know that we have in past done a bad job of misinterpreting scripures, it dosent mean that scriptures are bad only the people that misinterpreted are bad. so u and i have to make an effort other wise our posterity would suffer, so feel responsible for ur children. who wants to think all these. 6) >It is similar to the Government subjection all the >salt manufactures to put iodine in them to prevent >throat related diseases. But there is enough >scientific proof that iodine is a carcinogenic >substance and its vapors, which evolve when salt is >stored in jars and other containers, are very harmful >to all. >The concept of a soul is such. Where it is subjected >to one and all because of a few people who have the >access to subjecting their belief on a lot of people. >This process continues as others come into the market >of "soul solution" and make money in the >name of god. a) if people dont take efforts to understand soul, its not the souls fault, society can be blamed but not entirely, u have to blame urself for the effort, iam showing a case of why society should not be blamed, for ex any avatara/sadguru/siddha takes birth its in that same society with the same body as you, hehas grown, you too have grown but he reached realisation due to his effort ,you have not reached it beocos there was lack of effort, body was the same ..... Any sincere persistent effort in a humble way has to be reward, if you dont believe this have a faith in it follow it, you will get the results many people earlier have got and in future also will get,so dont worry you are not the scapegoat. so try to understand the rules and have faith. 7) >So where should one go and what should one believe? a) if you dont want to take effort in understading things,try to persistently pursue there is no way out, be truly behind the goal believe in ur self, in ur sincerity of pursuing the goal, believe in humbly trying all the options available to you its not easy its sadhana in itself, its a test in itself dont worry u will be blessed , God is not inhuman, he is better than u and me, if you dont believe have faith in that, ITS MORE CONSTRUCTIVE TO HAVE FAITH IN POSITIVE THINGS THAN THE NEGATIVE THINGS. 8) > Your reasoning is true from your perspective as what >you have believed is different from what I have >believed. So when it comes to the soul, it is only a >metaphorical concept and not a total scientific >concept. I can only compare two or more things to get >"my" view of things. It may be wrong but who >can tell >the truth? a) if Ego dosent come in between reasoning things would be clear, if we try to prove our point , or if we think all persons who are telling are fools, that spoils reasoning, one should patiently listen to every one analyse and decide what u feel is ok and what is not, if you dont have the patience u have to attain the art of looking right things at right place it comes by experience and good intentions ,effort so our intentions tell our attitutude. so have constructive egoless humble, inqusitive,persistent attitude it willl solve ur problem.couple it with effort from side it will lead u to truth. you have to take the FIRST little step. THAT IS THE LAW.He will be always providing with oppurtunities and inspiration for that, you have to start looking at it 9) >In Hindu Mythology, you'll find incidents where each > one of Bramha, > Vishnu, Shiv has given maximum boon to someone. >Moreover, Vishnu >never took his "avatar" to destroy someone who >received boon.He took > his "avatar" to guide humans, give them knowledge >and destroy those > who had misused their powers. There are many other >incidents where >Shiv and Bramha took "avatar". >Our mythology again is mostly misinterpreted. We >offer >animal sacrifices to Goddess Kali, but not Lord Rama. >Is that not a strange thing because, Goddess Kali >killed the demon in the form of a buffalo, but where >does it say that all buffalos are the demon? a) which saint supported sacrifices, i never read of any saint preaching people to do sacrifices, nor i do believe in sacrifice.so mythology if misinterprted its not the fault of mytholgy, its our fault becos we are not doing any thing to undo it. 10) >In fact >it was Lord Rama who should be offered such >sacrifices >because he and his brother used to hunt for wild life >in the jungle for food. They never did any farming in >the jungle to cook and eat proper vegetarian food. >They used to hunt to eat. Why are these things not >highlighted? Does this not mean selective >interpretation? a) Killing is action so stateless , so cant judge ? only states should be judged within the appropriate context. how do u know that they hunted , cant it be a misinterpretation, why do u believe it? why dont u believe in other good things of Rama and see that it could be some thing different why do you have negative attitude from the start itself, how could TULSIDAS attain realisation just by taking RAMAS NAME, what abt valmiki, do they dont serve enough proofs to suggest there is something wrong... why dont you see the world in this perspective.why negative? pls explain 12) >How did Lord Rama and Lord Krishna guide humans? What >lessons should we interpret as lessons to be learnt? >Should we learn the righteousness of Rama or the >flirtations and stealing of Krishna? Is Rama really >righteous? He was the king so he need not have sent >his wife away. So what should we learn? Is this not a > misinterpretation of our mythology? a)Except for sending SITA away and 1 or 2 other things, there is lot to learn, i only hope that there is more bigger reason to it, i dont knwo what it is probably it could be that ravana had a boon that no one could kill him except humans, so he had to behave like humans instead of GOD , i really dont know the case, but there are other good things he was responsible child to his father a good brother, a good king, he had only one wife.... so why dont you take this positvie aspect, and think that there is something that is missing.... if he is wrong what abt tulsidas,kabir do you think they are mad to devote their life in his name . or do you think you are smart then them , forget abt hanuman.... 13) >Krishna was always >competing with Shakuni to counter his plots. Should >we >consider Mahabharata as a great political epic and >follow the same things? a) why dont you apply ur logic like diamond cuts a diamond, if you dont counterplot how can you defeat an enemy why dont you see that how much its difficult to do all this things perfectly in one form, krishna didnt had any failure, he dealt with wide variety of cases in all he came out successful why dont u sit and analyse as to what are the cases and what made him sucessful instead of restricting urself to one case only. WHY DONT YOU SEE THE BIGGER PICTURE BEYOND 14) >Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. This >applies to all animate and in-animate objects around >us. So should it not mean that one good deed deserves >a bad deed? a) what is good and what is bad , why dont u think other way round a bad deed results in a good deed. actually there are some rules by which you have to abide which can called as SANATANA DHARMA , so follow it, thats all there is no good and bad if any thing good or bab its relative to that rules or santana dharma , you might ask who formed this rules and what is the basis, then in that case spit on some person and see. there is no rule that you should not spit on a person its a very good way to violate. so i hope u see the point , you have to realise it,a its not possible for every one initailly there are laid down as rules , why take a case of nuclear explosion why do u believe it , did u explode it, did u make an instrument to explode, no, its belief that can be proven or proved , so things have their own way to be proved for that you require a satguru. 16) >Now why should the people who receive a boon misuse >their powers? Is God so stupid that he gave the boon >to a person who had the potential of committing >actions against human race? God should have refused >the boon in the first place itself to prevent the >sufferings of so many a) if God refuses to give the boon , some people may complain that God is monopolstic,he is a dictator, some one would ask to show how God is sure that he will be missusing, so he has to take them to future... and show which is not reality at present . becos he didnt get the boon at all, understand the law of karma demon put efforts whatever the inspiration/intention may be he is rewarded why dosent a good responsible child of parent do the TAPSAYA for anti boon or boon to kill the demon ,if not checked would cause trouble to his near and dear, too lazy to make an effort right. God never stopped this man from doing Tapsya you might tell that why God has given the boon. the thing is that he has given us free will we should try to channelize it in a proper way , that is what that differentiates from animals, ANIMALS DONT HAVE MECHANISM TO PRACTISE OR DEVELOP FREE WILL ,BUT WE HUMANS MISUSE OUR BODY FOR EGOS AND SELFISH DESIRES INSTEAD OF MANIFESTING IN OURSELVES THE FREE WILL IN A CONSTRUCTIVE WAY AND REALISING GOD . Please understand the Law of Karma and FREEWILL( which is our right as we are his children or what ever). 17. >Or is it that he gets a > sadistic pleasure of playing "Robin Hood" – stealing > the rich to help the poor? Or like many of our > political friends who have known to induce violence > and then come in all their glory to pacify the people > to play the hero? > Who is to justify these? Another person who > misinterprets our mythology? a) oh my dear, why are you so aganist him, why do you attribute him so low qualities, have u seen him, have u experienced , then how do you attribute such qualites, how can you tell what iam instead of not knowing me, how do u analyse me, how do u form such strong conclusions on such a week analysis.do you think your analysis was proper in first place... pls dont demean lord,if u dont know it,stay in that state, what right do you have to demean some one .demeaning is different from staying in state of not knowing understand the difference, no one is asking u to praise abt lord , but at the same what right you have to demean , stay in state you dont know... 18) >According to Hindu Mythology; Bramha is the creator, >Vishnu is the >operator and Shiv is the destroyer. > How come in Mythology the "Mritunjay Mantra" > is based > on Lord Shiva? Does that mean that he will over rule >the words of Bramha to give eternal life to persons >who chant the mantra? If Vishnu is the Operator, than >what does he operate on? What are his set rules? Or > is >Vishnu a balance between Bramha and Shiva? a) again how do you know that brahma is not less than shiva, so shiva can override, did u realise that, my friend arguing can go on, but if its getting base less there is no meaning in arguing.... arguing should be construcitive and humble when ego gets in it messes up. please dont forget the law of karma and free will, Lord is not a dictator. its upon you to turn your destiny if you want. 19) > > he is an energy form who is so nutral, > that none can touch him. >Scientifically, you can touch neutral things. >Everything tends to >become neutral that's why we find compounds rather > easily than >elements. > he is very intense in his nutrality. > Intensity is not a feature of neutrality. Simple > science a)ALL THIS THINGS ARE BETTER UNDERSTOOD IF ONE STARTS REALISE IT. 20) >Have you ever heard of Sun Burns, deaths due to heat >waves and sun >screen lotions? Have you ever been to a desert? >Scientific analysis >should be universally applicable. > heard of sun-burns and sun screen lotions, and >I have been to deserts. It is just the adaptation >which counts here. I will not be able to bend my body, >twist and turn as much as Jacke Chan does only >because >I am not trained that way, a) so this is the jakie chan is the case of law of karma and free will he applied it and got it, you apply and get it , if you train that way, see how freew ill is making u jakie chan by your effort. 21) >How come only some are affected from malaria, while >those with sickle-celled anemia are the carriers of >the disease? >Scientifically; feelings, emotions, touch, smell, >pain, hunger etc. >are all electro-magnetic pulses interpreted by our >brain. >These electro magnetic impulses can be misinterpreted >due to various physical and psychological reasons, >including the usage of drugs and hypnotism. a) The thing that is to be understood here is that chenicals coupled with EM pulses and environment effect interpretation nothing substitues others. 21) >My comparison is metaphorical. >>If no one thinks about Vishnu, then what about those >two little kids, >Prahllad and Dhruv? What about Tulsi? Also, why do we >perform Satya >Narayan Pujan. Also, in Kanakdhara Strotra, godess >Mahalaxmi is >worshiped as Vishnu-Patni. Kanakdhara Strotra is >recited in front of >a Shaligram, a form of Vishnu. Your name suggests >that >you are a >south indian. Ever been to Tirupati? >But did these people in our mythology do any evil >deeds? How can we sit and justify that shiva gives >boons to all bad people and Vishnu to all good >people? a)its only ur observation,its not a rule , how can your observation with limited mind be called universal rule, no where its written that all demons pray to siva for boons, lot of good ones also got boons.probably they would have felt easy to appease siva, u have to understand the tattva in totality, either sadguru can tell you, but have to realise it , to completly understand it. 22) >> According to our Guruji, Dr. Narayan Dutt Shrimali, > we are born > as "Shav" (corpse) and we must become "Shiv" (alive, >complete). >According to you we are neutral and neutral is Shiv. >Then, why Shiv >makes us +ve or -ve when we are already what we must >become? >Yes I do believe that we already are shiv. a) No you are shav, not shiv, but you have the potential, it takes lot of effort to manifest the potential. pls understand . 23) >These +ve >and –ve are our inability to overcome our >feelings and >attachments for things around us. >you seem mature in this case. >> I am sure, you don't know the meaning of >"Sharanagati". > Yes I do not know what "sharanagati" is. Can >you >please explain it to me? I want to know how it is to >feel "sharanagati". a) sharanagati is to surrender your self to the lord/sadguru.it comes, if you have deep yearning for him, when you realise that he is behind everything.To understand this PLEASE READ THE POEMM QUEST BY GOD THAT I HAVE POSTED (Remembering Swami Vivekananda) 24) >> We are born because we are not Vishnu or Shiv. Only >the time of our >birth and death has been predetermined. For >everything >else (our karm >which decides whether we would be re-born) we are >given a brain and a >concious. Our sole purpose, for all births, is to >become complete. >Once we attain the objective, we are not reborn. >Who predetermines our birth and death? And Why? Who >decides about our Karma? a) you decide ur own karma you have to undo what you have already done, there is no escape you just cant do all mistakes and one fine day tell i want escape the punishment, so the beauty is by freewill you can make effort. 25) > I do agree that any theory will have its flaws. What > is this universal perspective? How does a person >look >for an answer inside ones own self? Can anyone teach >"sharanagati" > is if I look into myself? Will my experience be the > same as yours? How do I know that if I don't >look > outside myself and inside you? > Why should I do a sadhana? And what sadhana should I > do? all this have been answered. TAKE CARE Jai Gurudev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2002 Report Share Posted January 13, 2002 Namaste Sri Birendra! Truly insightful analysis. I just have two comments to make 1) It is true that animal sacrifices are allowed in several vedic sacrifices. It fact the great saint Appaya Dikshita(Swami Sivananda was a descendent of this saint) once performed an aswamedha yajna and killed 17 horses. So someone asked how could commit this sin and then Appayaji replied that the as a result of his killing and the sacrifice, the spirit of the horses went to heaven. To verify this, he summoned the souls of all the horses and they appeared before him and verified that they were indeed in heaven. 2) Ramayana definitely has instances of Rama hunting in the forest and killing animals. I have an interpretation of this which I will sent in another mail. I really dont know what to make of this as it is really confusing, it is better to listen to satguru for our feeble minds and all satguru's without exception have told that animal killing should not be done. Aum Namasivaya, Vijay --- birendra_m <birendra_m wrote: > Dear Vijay Bhaskar, > 1) >Scientific analysis requires > intense knowledge of > >cience and the concerned > >ubject. > >Have you considered asking > yourself; "Who am I?", > >Why am I?"? Also, > >hy limit our thoughts to only > Vishnu and Shiv? What > >bout Bramha? > >hat about mother Bhuvaneshwari? > > >True. It sure does require an > intense knowledge of > >various subjects. I do agree with > you, as it is not > >possible for an individual to be an > expert in all > >aspects of science to sit and > analyze various > >theories > > a) How can you conclude lord, on basis of such > limited > knowledge/limitations, iam not trying to discourage > u but what i tell > is that with our limited mind,how can we deal with > intricacies of the > nature/universe, did you ever make an effort to > identify the > tools,effort that you would require if you wanted > to analyse such > big > thing as God/Universe, did you ever theoratize on > the nature of the > tools,its characterstics. its same as looking into > stars require a > telescope and mere eyes are not enough, if you start > speculating > theories abt the stars with the things you see just > by eye(not even > telescope), > or can you sail in the ocean with the small boat you > use in the river > ,how valid and strong it is.how is it possible? > > 2) > > and come to a conclusion. But with > the limited > >knowledge I have on some of the > subjects, I did try > >and analyze things metaphorically > and not "implied". > >When it comes to spiritual > subjects, where there is > >little or no documented evidence of > how things work, > >one can only be sure based on > his/her own experience. > >This too is greatly influenced by a > lot of factors > >including our upbringing, or our > sphere of growth. > > a) its nice that you have identified in spritualism > things go by > experience, but why are you linking the experiences > in spiritualism > to > the influence of factors like upbringing, so on > soforth,all peopel in > the world have similar spirtual experiences, love is > the same lord is > the same, sadguru is the same, go into tattva, > lord may attain different forms , but his > tattva/attributes remain > the > same. there is only one samadhi state, buddhist > nirvana is same as > the > hindu brahmatva, > there are different paths jnana, bhakti, > raja,karma.... but all of > them end in love and all of them get to the same > state .all > tributaries get into river and all rivers into the > sea, dont get lost > in this initial details... always have the big > picture in mind at > every step you take, this would solve all the > differences and > confusion that arise. > > 3) > > As said in a lot of movies and > novels and even > >ancient > >scriptures, no one belongs to a > caste based on the > > birth, but based on the work. The > caste system is one > >of the biggest examples of mass > psychological > >orientation towards a specific > channel. The same > >applies to religion also. > a) > good observation, did you ever analyze > why is there a > mass psychological orientation to specific channel, > dont you see some > sort of animal behaviour here, though we have the > potential to be the > lord/siva we are not that , having potential dosent > mean that you are > that , it only means that by your effort you can > become that ,so potential lacks the effort,say india > has potential to > send some man to moon, it dosent mean that india has > sent a man to > moon, you have to train the cosmanut, you have to > integrate various > technologies that you have , customize them , test > them, you see lot > of work. > we are animals in human form, that is the reason you > can see lot of > visible animal behaviour/form in various humans, did > u observe that > .that is the reason every now and then some divine > soul is born in > form of sadguru/prophet to remind us what we are and > to take us to > the place where we belong.how can a common man who > is just like us > inspire to the infinite goal. > > > > > 4) > So a person from child-hood is > subjected to these > >so-called "social norms" of caste > and > >religion. When > >this person grows up with these > "norms" and > >also > >subjected to other things like our > education system, > >he is totally confused about > spirituality and the > >concept of "self" leave alone > Vishnu, Shiv > >and other > >gods and goddesses. > > a)good observation once again, initally there is > always a confusion > and chaos until you attain that state there is chaos > though magnitude > of intensity decreases with every sincere step.dont > always looks > forward try to look backward also you will feel the > progress that > would inspire u further. i think lord had given us > the all the > facilites and oppurtunites . i too went thru the > exercise of trying to reorient my self , it takes > years of persistent > thinking and effort, we cant change the system to > that state , so its > better to change ourselves to that state, saints > with good intentions > have written relegious books to remind god, but > often people > misinterpret or dont follow it properly, if some > person who is > responisble in power misinterprets and forces wrong > dogmad due to his > limitations, why blame the relegion. you should > rebel aganist the > people who practise it. > > > > > > 5) >Who has "seen" a soul? Can it be described in > any way? > > Is one persons description of a > soul same as other > > persons description? > > > a)soul is to be experienced, as you urself have told > that sprituaism > things have to be expereienced, even evidence can be > shown, but you > have to make a specilal effort, arjuna was shown > what === message truncated === Send FREE video emails in Mail! http://promo./videomail/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2002 Report Share Posted January 13, 2002 dear vijay, > > Truly insightful analysis. I just have two comments to > make > > 1) It is true that animal sacrifices are allowed in > several vedic sacrifices. It fact the great saint > Appaya Dikshita(Swami Sivananda was a descendent of > this saint) once performed an aswamedha yajna and > killed 17 horses. So someone asked how could commit > this sin and then Appayaji replied that the as a > result of his killing and the sacrifice, the spirit of > the horses went to heaven. To verify this, he summoned > the souls of all the horses and they appeared before > him and verified that they were indeed in heaven. > > 2) Ramayana definitely has instances of Rama hunting > in the forest and killing animals. I have an > interpretation of this which I will sent in another > mail. killing is action so nothing can be judged , intention is important, when i was referring to animal sacrifices i was referring to the ones that performed in villages on some festival, they are not enlightened as the sages,becos sages perform this great yagnas... they might have some meaning although i must tell that i didnt knew that horses are given for sacrifice in ashwamedha yagna, i was only referring to that things that happen in villages. that was in my mind, it was too horrific to look at those things. besides i have not come across any literature by any saint in this age that supports animal sacrifices.... its nice to have some one like u around > I really dont know what to make of this as it is > really confusing, it is better to listen to satguru > for our feeble minds and all satguru's without > exception have told that animal killing should not be > done. > sadguru is the only solution, i was just trying to do my part. affectionately Jai Gurudev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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