discussion btw Ashish and Birendra

[Guest guest]

Birendra and Ashish u r getting in to futile discussion. Unless u both are

open and try to understand each other's points of view u won't be able to

come to some conclusion.

 

I haven't gone through your discussion but i think such is the case becuse i

too have been involved in such discussion with some people and we are trying

to protect out own point of views. Only a person who is enlightened and has

followed both paths can say about it.

 

Anurag

 

 

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[Guest guest]

JAI GURUDEV

Dear Anurag...

> Birendra and Ashish u r getting in to futile discussion.

 

You are right. That discussion was futile.

> we are trying to protect out own point of views.

 

Right again. At least, I was trying to protect my point of view. I

shouldn't have got into it at the first place. I understand the

importance of love and dedication for Guru without which, no sadhana

would be of any use. I also feel that it is not right to leave

everything to Guruji while we sit back with a lot of love, faith and

dedication in our hearts for him. We still get everything, only this

way Guruji pays heavy price for our bad karmas. You know it very well

that when Guruji grants someone a Diksha, he takes all bad karmas of

that person onto himself and bears all the sufferings and pain. On

the other hand, if we perform sadhanas, we reduce the effect of our

bad karmas on our own and this can make things a lot easier for

Guruji. I must clarify here that I am not against taking Dikshas. I,

too, have taken many Dikshas, but along with them, I have also

performed many sadhanas to reduce the effect of my wrong doings as

much as I can.

 

Anurag, I know, you understand it very well that bad karmas never

simply go away. Someone must pay for them. Either the sadhak through

sadhana or the Guru through pain and suffering. During the 97 Bhopal

shivir, someone had asked Shrivastavji that if Bade Guruji is really

capable, why is he ill. Shirivastavji replied that he had taken your

pain so that you could enjoy the pleasure.

 

About Birendra, he really got me puzzled. At one moment, he was

asking me questions about motivation and telling me that he is not

good at it. The next moment, he was telling me that sadhana is the

initial state of mind while bhakti is the later state and he is a

bhakta. I confess, I am confused. If what he says is right then he

must be a very lucky person that Guruji elevated him directly to the

higher state of mind without letting him face the troubles of the

initial one as I know, he never actually performed any sadhana.

> Only a person who is enlightened and has followed both paths

> can say about it.

 

I agree.

 

Thanks and have a nice day.

 

Ashish...

[Guest guest]

What is the mantra to recite with the worship of Kuber Yantra in the

morning at puja ? Is there a set time to recite it in the morning ?

And how many times should the mantra be recited ?

-

nikhilashish

Monday, June 17, 2002 7:03 AM

Re: discussion btw Ashish and Birendra

JAI GURUDEVDear Anurag...> Birendra and Ashish u r getting in to futile

discussion.You are right. That discussion was futile.> we are trying to protect

out own point of views. Right again. At least, I was trying to protect my point

of view. I shouldn't have got into it at the first place. I understand the

importance of love and dedication for Guru without which, no sadhana would be

of any use. I also feel that it is not right to leave everything to Guruji

while we sit back with a lot of love, faith and dedication in our hearts for

him. We still get everything, only this way Guruji pays heavy price for our bad

karmas. You know it very well that when Guruji grants someone a Diksha, he takes

all bad karmas of that person onto himself and bears all the sufferings and

pain. On the other hand, if we perform sadhanas, we reduce the effect of our

bad karmas on our own and this can make things a lot easier for Guruji. I must

clarify here that I am not against taking Dikshas. I, too, have taken many

Dikshas, but along with them, I have also performed many sadhanas to reduce the

effect of my wrong doings as much as I can.Anurag, I know, you understand it

very well that bad karmas never simply go away. Someone must pay for them.

Either the sadhak through sadhana or the Guru through pain and suffering.

During the 97 Bhopal shivir, someone had asked Shrivastavji that if Bade Guruji

is really capable, why is he ill. Shirivastavji replied that he had taken your

pain so that you could enjoy the pleasure.About Birendra, he really got me

puzzled. At one moment, he was asking me questions about motivation and telling

me that he is not good at it. The next moment, he was telling me that sadhana is

the initial state of mind while bhakti is the later state and he is a bhakta. I

confess, I am confused. If what he says is right then he must be a very lucky

person that Guruji elevated him directly to the higher state of mind without

letting him face the troubles of the initial one as I know, he never actually

performed any sadhana.> Only a person who is enlightened and has followed both

paths> can say about it.I agree.Thanks and have a nice day.Ashish...Jay

Gurudev

[Guest guest]

You are right Ashish. i too believe in what u have said. someone has to pay

for bad karmas. i look at it this way love can't be there in a heart which

is not pure. If one has all true love towards a Guru i guess nothing else is

needed. One is standing so close to Gurudev that Gurudev doesn't have to do

much to take him across. Thats what i think.

 

sadhanas are necessary to reach this state of pureness. Through sadhnas one

can reach at thsi state very soon.

 

But still its all confusing :-). guurdev have said khaali Guru Guru japnei

sei bhi kuch nahin hogaa. May be here he might be referring to disciples

whoe still have to do a lot to reach this state.

 

Do u remember the reference of that disciple in Himalayas who used to be in

Gurudev's seva all the time. When time came he became Brahma Rishi in a

split of a second. I guess he too haven't performed all the sadhnas but for

sure he must have in past birth.

 

So sometime or the other one has to perform sadhanas. but then a stage will

when one will

be just lost in Guru. i think so. but that doesn't mean that one need not

perform sadhnas

after that. One can do sadhana for the good of others or to come up some

solution as Pujya Gurudev have mentioned that rishi munis do sadhna in

Siddhashrama to understand the secrets of this life and universe and to help

mankind.

 

 

>

>nikhilashish [nikhilashish]

>Monday, June 17, 2002 4:34 PM

>

> Re: discussion btw Ashish and Birendra

>

>

>JAI GURUDEV

>Dear Anurag...

>

>> Birendra and Ashish u r getting in to futile discussion.

>

>You are right. That discussion was futile.

>

>> we are trying to protect out own point of views.

>

>Right again. At least, I was trying to protect my point of view. I

>shouldn't have got into it at the first place. I understand the

>importance of love and dedication for Guru without which, no sadhana

>would be of any use. I also feel that it is not right to leave

>everything to Guruji while we sit back with a lot of love, faith and

>dedication in our hearts for him. We still get everything, only this

>way Guruji pays heavy price for our bad karmas. You know it very well

>that when Guruji grants someone a Diksha, he takes all bad karmas of

>that person onto himself and bears all the sufferings and pain. On

>the other hand, if we perform sadhanas, we reduce the effect of our

>bad karmas on our own and this can make things a lot easier for

>Guruji. I must clarify here that I am not against taking Dikshas. I,

>too, have taken many Dikshas, but along with them, I have also

>performed many sadhanas to reduce the effect of my wrong doings as

>much as I can.

>

>Anurag, I know, you understand it very well that bad karmas never

>simply go away. Someone must pay for them. Either the sadhak through

>sadhana or the Guru through pain and suffering. During the 97 Bhopal

>shivir, someone had asked Shrivastavji that if Bade Guruji is really

>capable, why is he ill. Shirivastavji replied that he had taken your

>pain so that you could enjoy the pleasure.

>

>About Birendra, he really got me puzzled. At one moment, he was

>asking me questions about motivation and telling me that he is not

>good at it. The next moment, he was telling me that sadhana is the

>initial state of mind while bhakti is the later state and he is a

>bhakta. I confess, I am confused. If what he says is right then he

>must be a very lucky person that Guruji elevated him directly to the

>higher state of mind without letting him face the troubles of the

>initial one as I know, he never actually performed any sadhana.

>

>> Only a person who is enlightened and has followed both paths

>> can say about it.

>

>I agree.

>

>Thanks and have a nice day.

>

>Ashish...

>

>

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>

>

>

>

>

>Your use of is subject to

 

 

 

 

"THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE ALONG WITH ANY ATTACHMENTS IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE

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If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,

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[Guest guest]

JAI GURUDEV

> If one has all true love towards a Guru i guess nothing

> else is needed.

 

Yes. In such a stage, Guru and disciple would surely become one, deep

down to the soul.

> sadhanas are necessary to reach this state of pureness.

> Through sadhnas one can reach at thsi state very soon.

 

Of course. Unless we have completed our worldly duties and eliminated

all our desires and worries, we can't reach that state.

> May be here he might be referring to disciples

> whoe still have to do a lot to reach this state.

 

Surely.

> Do u remember the reference of that disciple in Himalayas who

> used to be in Gurudev's seva all the time. When time came he

> became Brahma Rishi in a split of a second.

 

Unfortuantely, I don't know anything about this incident. Please,

tell me more.

> One can do sadhana for the good of others or to come up some

> solution as Pujya Gurudev have mentioned that rishi munis do

> sadhna in Siddhashrama to understand the secrets of this life

> and universe and to help mankind.

 

Such a sadhak would definitely deserve entry in Siddhashram. I wish,

I could be the one.

 

Ashish...

[Guest guest]

>

> You are right Ashish. i too believe in what u have said. someone

has to pay

> for bad karmas. i look at it this way love can't be there in a

heart which

> is not pure.

 

 

Nothing is perfect until, its 100% which is no different than

God/Guru.Only Guru is 100%sadhak , 100% disciple, all are in the

process of getting there, love is also the same way, in one day one

cant build 100% love , slowly you have to transform your state of

mind to that of one that whatever you do , you do to please him, what

ever you think its for him....

so transforming all this in one go is not possible,so one has to put

effort,its also a sadhana, just singing hymns ot lord is not

bhakti/devotion , one should sing from heart, uttering from mouth

dosent reach lord.

 

 

sure Guru mantra is way of devotion to Guru in this age,

it can be some ishta devata also(belvoed diety), but you have to

understand that , when one is in love its for sure that , only one

object or focus remains ,everything you think or do its for that one

thing in mind, everything is done in the consousisness of that object.

 

 

so when one is in love during one is happy/sad,trouble/enjoyment he

would only seek the beloved. But this has to come naturally , you

cant force it.

 

i personally believe,we all have the samething to Gurudev, but i am

surpirsed why you are not aware of it, just rethink this whole issue.

you are not just sadhaks, you are also disciples,(no one is 100%) but

we are.

 

 

besides there are many factors that propel to what one thinks, it can

be house environment, expreinces from previous birth, Gurudev himself.

so on so forth, as i have to tell you when i and some of my freinds

went to meet Gurudev, he prescribes some different sadhanas and

deekshas , and they were interested and they pursued, but for me from

day one, i was only interested in Guru and Guru only , i prayed to

God , i wept to have a Guru, for me Guru came after lot of sacrifice

and yearning from day one. any ways i beleive that bhavana should be

there for anything you do ,be it mantra or anything, i cant have any

bhavana other than sadguru/ or his attributes, when i think of krishna

i think of the sadguru nature in him, i may praise lord siva or hari,

but i praise him as the attribute of sadguru, i just cant see the

other way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If one has all true love towards a Guru i guess nothing else is

> needed.

 

 

true.

>One is standing so close to Gurudev that Gurudev doesn't have to do

> much to take him across. Thats what i think.

 

In love Gurdev sacrifice everything, he dosent see how much he is

sacrificing, the bhavana is important. i may be a poor man , but i

may have a rich heart, so lord sees the bhavana, so testing is one

way Gurudev ascertains bhavana.

 

 

>

> sadhanas are necessary to reach this state of pureness. Through

sadhnas one

> can reach at thsi state very soon.

>

 

 

my freinds sadhana is a very general term, dont just see it as doing

a mantra or tantra alone.

 

 

 

> But still its all confusing :-). guurdev have said khaali Guru Guru

japnei

> sei bhi kuch nahin hogaa. May be here he might be referring to

disciples

> whoe still have to do a lot to reach this state.

>

 

Here he meant that LIP SERVICE, just telling Guru, Guru dosent help,

one from his every cell of his being has to utter that, with

devotion ,submission.its an exalted state, similar to reciting the

Gurumantra thru every pore of your body.

see the story of "madhuranand" in sadhana siddhi aur sapahlata from

dhyan dharan samadhi book.

 

> Do u remember the reference of that disciple in Himalayas who used

to be in

> Gurudev's seva all the time. When time came he became Brahma Rishi

in a

> split of a second. I guess he too haven't performed all the sadhnas

but for

> sure he must have in past birth.

>

 

 

 

yes his name is gynanaanand , the story is in "hiamalay ke yogion ke

gupt siddhiane"

 

> So sometime or the other one has to perform sadhanas. but then a

stage will

> when one will

> be just lost in Guru.

 

 

yes true, who is aware of what ones past life is, Love for God dosent

start immediately, its a slow process.

 

 

 

>i think so. but that doesn't mean that one need not

> perform sadhnas

> after that. One can do sadhana for the good of others or to come up

some

> solution as Pujya Gurudev have mentioned that rishi munis do sadhna

in

> Siddhashrama to understand the secrets of this life and universe

and to help

> mankind.

 

 

 

when one merges with Guru, there are two bodies but one soul, there

only Guru thinks. Guru can do what ever God pleases.

 

so before i end this a miras poems that tells you how a lover feels,

there are lot of good quotation in siddhasharm.org site also

 

When the whole world

rests in slumber, dear love,

I keep vigil, riven from him.

In a glorious palace of pleasure,

estranged, I sit awake,

and see a forsaken girl,

with a garland of tears on her neck,

passing the night

counting stars,

counting the hours

to happiness.

If I had known

that falling in love

was to fall in with pain,

I would have thundered a drum

to proclaim through the city

that love was banned for all...

 

 

i basically belive that one has to enjoy the sadhanas when one does

it, and for me Guru is the only source of true enjoyment. for others

it may be some ishta devata.

 

 

Jai Gurudev.