Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Jai Gurudev while browsing thru the mails i found that one has to be aware of the follwoing things Please note this 1) if "GRIHSTH" people are reciting the panchakshari mantra, it should be "namah shivaya om" and this way of recitation is prescribed for "GRISHT PEOPLE"(in materialistic perspective), dont recite the mantra the other way unless told by your Guru. however people who have taken vow not to marry can do "om namah shivaya". 2)besides while reciting mantra, pls do not bother about the pronunciation, give the focus to the mantra and maintain the discipline of chanting with focus, then the mantra would recorrect by itself, your chanting will get the natural pronounciation. this in a way is a sign that your sadhana is succeding. jai gurudev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 , "birendra_m" <birendra_m> wrote: > > Jai Gurudev > > while browsing thru the mails i found that one has to be aware of the > follwoing things > > Please note this > > 1) if "GRIHSTH" people are reciting the panchakshari mantra, it > should be "namah shivaya om" and this way of recitation is prescribed > for "GRISHT PEOPLE"(in materialistic perspective), dont recite the > mantra the other way unless told by your Guru. > however people who have taken vow not to marry can do "om namah > shivaya". > oye......, kis ne keh diya? patrika me kai baar likha hai. nov 98 paro. aum namah shivay sab ka mantra hai mother parvati chanted it to marry lord shiv. naarad ne diksha dee thee. serial nahin dekha- aum namah shivaaya? now very politely may i remind you that you once told me that you will take nazir ji's problem to some one and help it be solved. us ka kya hua? kuch kar sakte ho to karo biru bhaiya. it is not within my means. > 2)besides while reciting mantra, pls do not bother about the > pronunciation, give the focus to the mantra and maintain the > discipline of chanting with focus, then the mantra would recorrect by > itself, your chanting will get the natural pronounciation. > this in a way is a sign that your sadhana is succeding. > > jai gurudev this was very correct- just like your usual enlightened self. please keep dropping your pearls of wisdom we miss them and i especially am looking for a silent exit from the back door jai gurudev keep chin up! anu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 > > > 1) if "GRIHSTH" people are reciting the panchakshari mantra, it > > should be "namah shivaya om" and this way of recitation is > prescribed > > for "GRISHT PEOPLE"(in materialistic perspective), dont recite the > > mantra the other way unless told by your Guru. > > however people who have taken vow not to marry can do "om namah > > shivaya". > > > > oye......, > kis ne keh diya? patrika me kai baar likha hai. > > nov 98 paro. aum namah shivay sab ka mantra > hai > mother parvati chanted it to marry lord shiv. > naarad ne diksha dee thee. serial nahin dekha- aum namah shivaaya? well the answer for this is, she was OK if lord shiva remained however he was(penniless,living in mountains/burial grounds) she liked the way he was, so it didnt matter to her,wheterher he had money /etc or not. so to please lord shiva you can do the normal way, but iam talking of materialistic thing), imean while you want some materialistic benfit then it should be the otherway , unless told by ones Guru. Lord vishnu should be associated some way or the other for household needs. we will take a simple case, the Gurumantra given to us is narayan based, though Gurudev is beyond narayana and shiva. jai Gurudev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 , "birendra_m" <birendra_m> wrote: > > > > > 1) if "GRIHSTH" people are reciting the panchakshari mantra, it > > > should be "namah shivaya om" and this way of recitation is > > prescribed > > > for "GRISHT PEOPLE"(in materialistic perspective), dont recite > the > > > mantra the other way unless told by your Guru. > > > however people who have taken vow not to marry can do "om namah > > > shivaya". > > > > > > > well the answer for this is, she was OK if lord shiva remained > however he was(penniless,living in mountains/burial grounds) > she liked the way he was, so it didnt matter to her,wheterher he had > money /etc or not. > so to please lord shiva you can do the normal way, but iam talking of > materialistic thing), imean while you want some materialistic benfit > then it should be the otherway , unless told by ones Guru. > > well i have been taught that c aum namah shivaay should be chanted by everyone -- some one who is serious devi devotee to the extent that he attained oneness with her , so i will stick to it. i remember similar things written about it in gurudev's mantra rahasya. that you can chant it as and when you can with no rules. but i do not ahve it here to quote. to associate lotd vishnu, you chant the mantra as hari aum namah shivaaya. i have heard that often too. in any case with that you come to the debate of mara mara chanted by valmiki which became ram ram ram and namah shivay aum namha shivaay aum namah shivaay will not differ so much. birendra, to belittle shiva as a penniless GOD speaks of ignorance just like saying that kali is feirce so she cannot give roop and saubhagaya. he is the giver of all the boons to all the GOds, he is the guru of all gurus. and how will chanting namah shivaay aum change that? BUt may be you ahve a point which is relevant to those who think the way you do. so thank you for your comment. aum namha shivaay gives peace happiness saubhagya (nov 2000 isuue) what will a sanyaasi do with saubhaagya? so now that the page is open giving a few more mantras: for removing fear and victory over enemies hreem aum namah shivaay hreem for grihasth sukh, getting children etc ram ksham mam yam om am and ofcourse mrityunjaya aum trayambakam yajamahe sugandhim pushti vardhanam urvaarukmeev bandhanaan mrityurmuksheeya maamtrataat for evrything under the sun! > > we will take a simple case, the Gurumantra given to us is narayan > based, though Gurudev is beyond narayana and shiva. > > yes that is a good observation i never thought of it this way. naraayna andshiva re also beyond these defintions. it is only we who are tied by them. jai gurudev anu > > jai Gurudev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 > well i have been taught that c aum namah shivaay should be chanted by > everyone -- some one who is serious devi devotee to the extent that > he attained oneness with her , so i will stick to it. stick to whatever your Guru says as i always said,Guru has the power to do anything, he is like siva, iam talking of people who are house holders and dont have a Guru,siva is not their Guru, becos the mantra is not given to them by siva. > i remember similar things written about it in gurudev's mantra > rahasya. that you can chant it as and when you can with no rules. but > i do not ahve it here to quote. this is not my thoughts , but of saints. > to associate lotd vishnu, > you chant the mantra as > hari aum namah shivaaya. i have heard that often too. no i am not telling in that way,if you want shiva, just do namah shivaya aum. i am not talking of hari aum namah shivaya(at least i didnt hear). > in any case with that you come to the debate of mara mara chanted by > valmiki which became ram ram ram > and > namah shivay aum namha shivaay aum namah shivaay will not differ so > much. > good logic , i felt that you would come up with this,my intution is not bad, but i think it is different, it is how you pronunce it. for rama its one word and for this "aum in the starting of the mantra is different from the aum at the end, i heard it Gurumukha(mouth of a Guru). "aum at the starting is very short you cant expand it, but aum at the end has longer pitch and lifecycle" hope you understand. > > to belittle shiva as a penniless GOD speaks of ignorance just like > saying that kali is feirce so she cannot give roop and saubhagaya. he > is the giver of all the boons to all the GOds, he is the guru of all > gurus. well i am not belittling any God. >and how will chanting namah shivaay aum change that? > BUt may be you ahve a point which is relevant to those who think the > way you do. so thank you for your comment. iam an only saying that panchakshari,in that way is more a renunciate mantra then the other way.this is not my theory i heard it Gurumukha. > > and ofcourse mrityunjaya > aum trayambakam yajamahe sugandhim pushti vardhanam > urvaarukmeev bandhanaan mrityurmuksheeya maamtrataat > for evrything under the sun! probably you may be true , but its true for avoiding disease leading to death or anything leading to death. > > > > > we will take a simple case, the Gurumantra given to us is narayan > > based, though Gurudev is beyond narayana and shiva. > > > > > yes that is a good observation i never thought of it this way. > naraayna andshiva re also beyond these defintions. it is only we who > are tied by them. its the same way as different colors exist in white, white is a reality and other colors are also a reality though transitory in nature, so for transitory fulfillments you need transitory Gods and for permanent fulfilment you need parabrahma. Jai Gurudev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 --- Birendra, "stick to whatever your Guru says as i always said,Guru has the power to do anything," Ø this is not my guru, this is at best a personification of the divine mother or a saint. Guru shishya relation has several rules. When the only bond is love there are no rules. Ø "this is not my thoughts , but of saints." Ø well I am quoting gurudev's book mantra rahasya as well as MTY. We always quote these books as they are the source of our guru's wisdom. Ø I understand that some one who you take as a guru has said this to you. In that case, I must thank you for adding to the discussion and bringing a new point across. It is always healthy to have varied opinions and then take what suits one best. Eg we at home are forbidden from offering water on a shiv ling after dusk. At gurudhaam there are no such rules. In such situations one has to listen to one's own heart and soul. I was only saying whether you chant aum namah shivaay or namah shivaay aum just where does Vishnu come in? even in that case shiva will remain the GOD of the cremation ground will he not? "aum at the starting is very short you cant expand it, but aum at the end has longer pitch and lifecycle" hope you understand. Ø yes I understand. But when you get to chant as you very wisely put it, things begin to come in rhythm on their own. In such a situation self-imposed boundaries fade. So all this long short pitch become s meaning less, that is why mara changed to ram and that is why namah shivaay aum and aum namah shivaay will fade into each other. I fear not so much difference will remain then. And I think you can expand aum anywhere at least seems so when I am trying. In any case the way i have heard it, it is chanted aloud with long vocal stretch for aum, for namah and for shivaay. Ø Ø Ø > > and ofcourse mrityunjaya > aum trayambakam yajamahe sugandhim pushti vardhanam > urvaarukmeev bandhanaan mrityurmuksheeya maamtrataat > for evrything under the sun! probably you may be true , but its true for avoiding disease leading to death or anything leading to death. Ø Ø birendra, have you chanted mrityunjaya? This is a misnomer. There is a lot of spiritual cleansing which is needed for accomplishing any task and mriyunjaya helps. It can be used for things like begetting a son and all material riches as well as is the most prescribed vedic mantra for cleansing of sins, or to planetary afflictions no matter what aspect of your life is affected. Ø Ø Mantras like mrityunjaya, gayatri can be used for any task. And remember one thing shiva is the giver of all tantra all mantra, yantras. Sapta koti mantras have arisen from him. Yet he himself is abobe all this drama and you need to just make a shivling of mud and worship him. Nothing is needed – feelings suffice Ø Ø now I will take break from this discussion to tell you a short story on shiva without reference to context because I feel like..!! In a shiva temple, where people come and go like toads in the rainy reason, there were 2 men who came daily without fail. One would offer water, then place a flower and leave. The oother had developed some infuriation towards this GOD and would go there take off his slippers dust them on the shiv ling and leave. This went on for several months, years. Then one day the weather was really bad. It poured heavily, there was a cyclone and deterred by the bad weather, the bhakta failed to appear. But this was not a big enough challenge for the hatred of the "abhakta" and he appeared. Took off his shoes as usual and dusted them on the shiving. This was enough to please shiva. And he appeared – gave him saakshaat darshan and asked him to take a boon of his choice. This is not perhaps meant for you since you according to your own assertions never chant, but goes to guide those who do. Niyam- is the most important thing in shiv worship and in pleasing Him. So take up a mantra a count set aside a time. And do it without fail no matter what comes to try you. Taking up something small may also not be a bad idea. But then do not break it until mission is accomplished whatever it is. Indeed GOD is above bhaav kubhaav, bhakti, abhakti. SO just to go back --for the most powerful mantra of the most powerful and benevolent God who is known as aghour daani nothing is impossible!indeed nothing is impossible to even aum namah shivaay or namah shivaay aum or whatever you wish to chant it like. Ø Ø its the same way as different colors exist in white, white is a reality and other colors are also a reality though transitory in nature, so for transitory fulfillments you need transitory Gods and for permanent fulfilment you need parabrahma. there are no transitory GODS. Hinduism exists on the principle of raising every deity to infinity. Any God is in a position to provide you all the spiritual and material wealth you need if you know how to ask for it. thank you very much for adding to whatever little I knew, biru bhaiyya. I can understand that since you heard it from gurumukh you are so assertive about it, and may be a bit touchy too. I am logging off now. My work has been suffering because of issp, and will not from now. So if there is anything urgent like always I am available by personal mail. If it is avoidable, I will be grateful if I am left alone for a while. I still remember about the sahasrakshar kavach and will post it as soon as it is scanned. Jai gurudev anu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 > > Ø this is not my guru, this is at best a personification of the > divine mother or a saint. Generally mantra should be given by a Guru and he assumes the responsiblity of that sadhana, by giving all the knowledge (pronounciation,no of chants....)of that mantra, besides the mantra is given based on Gurus assesment of the disciple mental state. believe me words cant catch the bhava, only chanting by a Guru can make you know where to get the pitch up and pitch down, say for example "help me" if i say it different bhava and high pitch it looks like an order and if in low pitch and soft it look like request, its very sad that you people dont understand the need for a bhava while chanting the mantra.(by bhava you focus a mantra besides purpose). no doubt without bhava also things work but, it would take lot of time to set to the natural tune/bhava of the mantra in the mean time one may get frustrated and discontinue > Guru shishya relation has several rules. > When the only bond is love there are no rules. what i say is they fulfill all rules, and transcend beyond it, all things abide by sashtra, though it seems there are no rules . dont take this too seriously. >I understand that some one who you take as a guru has said > this to you. In that case, I must thank you for adding to the > discussion and bringing a new point across. It is always healthy to > have varied opinions and then take what suits one best. there are no opinions in the shastra, and there are lot of ways of worship each has its own reasons, we should not go by our opinions, but only by the Gurus, whoever the Guru might be.in this case do what ever pleases you. > Eg we at home > are forbidden from offering water on a shiv ling after dusk. At > gurudhaam there are no such rules. In such situations one has to > listen to one's own heart and soul. > we are not at this stage, if can hear and implement what soul says we dont need any mantras or tantras > > I was only saying whether you chant aum namah shivaay or namah > shivaay aum just where does Vishnu come in? even in that case shiva > will remain the GOD of the cremation ground will he not? true, i was talking in general and making and additional point. vishnu is meant for householder stuff which we should not forget. as siva tattva is diffrent from vishnu tattva, we become what we meditate on , too much of siva will make us more renunciate nature, our thinking patterns and goals change that is one of the things one should take care of. > > "aum at the starting is very short you cant expand it, but aum > at the end has longer pitch and lifecycle" hope you understand. > > Ø yes I understand. But when you get to chant as you very > wisely put it, things begin to come in rhythm on their own. In such a > situation self-imposed boundaries fade. So all this long short pitch good point i agree, but you are forgetting the bhavana part. the purpose of the mantra and focus should also be taken into consideration. >And I think > you can expand aum anywhere at least seems so when I am trying. In > any case the way i have heard it, it is chanted aloud with long vocal > stretch for aum, for namah and for shivaay. in a panchakshari how can you break 3 times all should be in one go, that is why i told that it should come from Gurumkha ,if you are listening to some cassettes by some T series or so, then forget it. it is a panchakshari so no break all in one go (five letters in one word) now you will see the difference as to what i say. > > > > and ofcourse mrityunjaya > > aum trayambakam yajamahe sugandhim pushti vardhanam > > urvaarukmeev bandhanaan mrityurmuksheeya maamtrataat > > for evrything under the sun! > > > Ø birendra, have you chanted mrityunjaya? This is a misnomer. > There is a lot of spiritual cleansing which is needed for > accomplishing any task and mriyunjaya helps. It can be used for > things like begetting a son and all material riches as well as is the > most prescribed vedic mantra for cleansing of sins, or to planetary > afflictions no matter what aspect of your life is affected. i know gayatri is universal mantra yes mrityunjaya, is powerful and what all you said may be true,if you reason clearly why do we suffer disease is it not due to bad karma, besides disease exists at 3 levels. The story was good example for niyam and sincerity. so it shows sincerity/discipline on its own get generate results besides you have to note one point is that lord shiva can be easily pleased. but still the story is convincing on sincerity. good point any ways > there are no transitory GODS. Hinduism exists on the principle of > raising every deity to infinity. Any God is in a position to provide > you all the spiritual and material wealth you need if you know how >to > ask for it. > bhavana is important, take ramakrishna paramahmsa he attained completenes with kali, but that was not all, still he had to enter into into the nirguna tattva, so whatever be the God one has to enter formless realm to reach infinity, > thank you very much for adding to whatever little I knew, biru > bhaiyya. I can understand that since you heard it from gurumukh you > are so assertive about it, and may be a bit touchy too. I am logging > off now. My work has been suffering because of issp, and will not > from now. mine too has suffering. Jai gurudev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 --- Birendra, I have yet to carefully read your long mail. I thank you for the effort you took in typing it for me. I appreciate your heartfelt concern. But I fully understand how and where to take a mantra Since I have never claimed not to be in the guidance of a guru such a discussion is meaningless. I as a person have learnt a lot from a lot of people as Dattatreya puts across your teacher is everywhere. So just like I showed respect to people you revere, kindly do not equate my sources to T series. It is really nice to see someone like you who claims that he can mange well without sadhanas give such elaborate comments on chanting. This just means that you should be doing them yourself too after all Have you heard kabir "Main kehta aankhin dekhi, tu kehta kaagaz kee dekhi" hearsay is never enough. True experience is what you gain yourself. So until you sit to chant, all the commentary you are giving will be borrowed. Well I too am not in a position yet to give any original authentic comments but I am trying in this direction and gaining success and getting guidance too. And whatever little I have learnt, I have put in the few posts I have posted on sadhanas, and will put more in the posts that follow. its very sad that you people dont understand the need for a bhava while chanting the mantra.(by bhava you focus a mantra besides purpose). no doubt without bhava also things work but, it would take lot of time to set to the natural tune/bhava of the mantra in the mean time one may get frustrated and discontinue what on earth made you make this assumption and statement?? No mantra ritual of mine goes without bhav. Please go back and read the post on sadhanas I have posted, probably in taking a quick look you have missed my point. The first step I take in chanting any mantra is nderstanding what this GOD stands for and I try to with whatever limited apparatus in terms of soul mind and body I have open myself up to that power. my prayer rituals are never completed without listening to some melodious rendering of stotras—since as I put across this is the easiest way for me to emote. To understand what I am saying you need to combine the two. Neither bhav nor sadhana alone can work, when I started as a child I had enough bhav in me to make things happen by listening to any obscure bhajan or praying. Then as I grew older I lost this capacity. But chanting cleanses the dirt that has gathered within even if it is temporarily. It brings it back, and I am able to after a session of chanting enjoy the same feeling of being immersed in bhakti. Very vain talk I guess. As I put across, it is temporary state and does not happen every day. That is what ashish has been trying to tell you. Just like bhav is important for sadhnas, sadhanas are also important for purifying bhav. It is very sad to see someone become a disciple of nikhileshwarand and deny himself the path of sadhana. And remember one thing, human beings are different just like you think you can manage purely by bhav, there are people at the other extreme who can mange just by sadhna since bhav is not something that come naturally to them. but they have tremendous will power and that is their path. But yes the best dinner is when it is full course. Coffee to dessert. > > > Generally mantra should be given by a Guru and he assumes the Ø responsiblity of that sadhana, yet I have chanted so many mantras without meeting Dr srimali, and still managed to get the right pitch and tone etc. so will I mange with aum namah shivaay too. Thank you for your concern, but I think I have guidance. > > > > now if you do not mind, in the limited time I have, I prefer to use it constructively in helping people like nazir ji. I think he needs us all a lot these days. we have been chatting for months now, and our philosophic discussions can wait till we are more free. Jai gurudev Aum namah shivay Anu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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