Guest guest Posted April 9, 2000 Report Share Posted April 9, 2000 Is Ramana's self enquiry basically the same as Patanjali's yoga? To still the mind by focusing on one thing (I in Ramana's case) and then dwelling in that stillness. Does it matter what is focused on? Isn't the idea to find something you _can_ focus on? This is a wonderful list. I hope you all write more. Just reading the messages is very good. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2000 Report Share Posted April 10, 2000 Hello Larry, The aim is indeed the same, i.e. atmanishta - to be fixed as the Self. In meditation with mind fixed on one thought all other thoughts are kept away. This is an excellent method for strengthening the mind which has a weakness for continual, random thoughts. Practice of that method leads to Atmavichara - Self enquiry. When random thoughts are eliminated there still remains the meditator and the object of meditation. Then the meditator merges himself in the source. Ramana's method focusses on the meditator (the thinker) from the beginning. Ultimately that is what has to happen, a turning of attention on the one who thinks he is meditating. Atmavichara is a constant as long as the enquirer considers him/herself separate from enquiry. It does not have to be performed in a certain posture, for/at a certain time, or in a certain place. It is a continual process, while at work and while at play. regards Miles ------------ >on 10/4/00 5:12 am, LBIDD at LBIDD wrote: > Is Ramana's self enquiry basically the same as Patanjali's yoga? To > still the mind by focusing on one thing (I in Ramana's case) and then > dwelling in that stillness. Does it matter what is focused on? Isn't the > idea to find something you _can_ focus on? > > This is a wonderful list. I hope you all write more. Just reading the > messages is very good. > > Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2000 Report Share Posted May 2, 2000 The answer to this is given by Ramana himself in Talks.... He clearly differentiates the method from concentration on an object or dhyana. Ramana says such a method can bring about manolaya, quiet mind but not manonasa. > > In meditation with mind fixed on one thought all other thoughts are kept > away. This is an excellent method for strengthening the mind which has a > weakness for continual, random thoughts. According to ramana, strengthning of mind is not tha aim, > > Practice of that method leads to Atmavichara - Self enquiry. When random > thoughts are eliminated there still remains the meditator and the object of > meditation. Then the meditator merges himself in the source. > Why bring in your concepts. Why don't you quote Ramana > Ramana's method focusses on the meditator (the thinker) from the beginning. > Ultimately that is what has to happen, a turning of attention on the one who > thinks he is meditating. > Self-enquiry is not focussing on the meditator but to enquire whether there is a meditator. I hate to write all this, why not go to www.ramana-maharishi.org and download the self enquiry Q&A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2000 Report Share Posted May 2, 2000 Welcome, Thank you for taking time to post. >> Why bring in your concepts. Why don't you quote Ramana<< Thank you for the opportunity. It is always nice to hear Ramana's words. Bearing in mind the original message was on meditation, this is relevant. It also clarifies the term 'strengthen' when applied to the mind in meditation. >From Talks 293; "Meditation is sticking to one thought. That single thought keeps away other thoughts; distraction of mind is a sign of its weakness. By constant meditation it gains strength, i.e. to say, its weakness of fugitive thought gives place to the enduring background free of thoughts. This expanse devoid of thought is the Self. Mind in purity is the Self." > Self-enquiry is not focussing on the meditator but to enquire whether > there is a meditator. I hate to write all this, why not go to > www.ramana-maharishi.org and download the self enquiry Q&A. Yes indeed, this is so. However while there is the belief that there is someone who meditates, directing the mind towards that meditator is the beginning of the quest. As Ramana says: >From Talks, 580; "The ego must be held in order to get rid of it. Hold it first and the rest will be easy." Regards Miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2000 Report Share Posted May 2, 2000 > > Thank you for taking time to post. > > >> Why bring in your concepts. Why don't you quote Ramana<< > > Thank you for the opportunity. It is always nice to hear Ramana's words. > > Bearing in mind the original message was on meditation, this is relevant. It > also clarifies the term 'strengthen' when applied to the mind in meditation. > > From Talks 293; > "Meditation is sticking to one thought. That single thought keeps away other > thoughts; distraction of mind is a sign of its weakness. By constant > meditation it gains strength, i.e. to say, its weakness of fugitive thought > gives place to the enduring background free of thoughts. This expanse devoid > of thought is the Self. Mind in purity is the Self." > > > Self-enquiry is not focussing on the meditator but to enquire whether > > there is a meditator. I hate to write all this, why not go to > > www.ramana-maharishi.org and download the self enquiry Q&A. > > Yes indeed, this is so. However while there is the belief that there is > someone who meditates, directing the mind towards that meditator is the > beginning of the quest. As Ramana says: > > From Talks, 580; > "The ego must be held in order to get rid of it. Hold it first and the rest > will be easy." > Yes that may be so, in fact all meditation methods are doing it. But there are other places (self enquiry) and (Be as you are ed. David Goodman) where Ramana is quoted as saying. All the other methods strenghten the ego sense or the Aham vritti. It is like the theif acting to be a policeman. Where as self-enquiry is direct method. Yes the quote tells us what Ramana says about meditation, but not about self-enquiry. Ok so it is all about meditation. Now if I understand Ramana correctly self-enquiry is the direct method .. However if we have to sit in meditation, get hold of the ego and then what Kill it? The next question is how do I hold the ego? as an object of meditation? Is ego an object to behold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2000 Report Share Posted May 3, 2000 >> Now if I understand Ramana correctly self-enquiry is the direct >> method Yes. >> .. However if we have to sit in meditation, get hold of the ego and >> then what Kill it? >> The next question is how do I hold the ego? as an object of >> meditation? Is ego an object to behold? > Who is it who would hold the ego? This is the point. The ego is destroyed by seeking its identity. To try to hold it, you must first find it. This is the quest. "Because the ego is no entity it will automatically vanish and Reality will shine forth by itself. This is the direct method. The quest "Who am I?" is the axe with which to cut of the ego." (Talks, 146) (I shall be away from computers for a few days therefore unable to post.) Miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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