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[Guest guest]

In the conversation with the young man Ramana points to the statements

referring to the 'I'. "Who is the 'I' who says 'I' do not know?"

 

Is it the real 'I' or the false 'I'?

 

The 'I' who says "I am not realised" or "I do not know" is an impostor.

 

When Ramana responds "Who was born?" he attempts again to point to the

futility of this 'I'-thought, because what is born must also die.

Realisation is not something to be gained anew. It is eternal. There is

neither birth nor death for the Self.

 

Seeking the source of the 'I', however, *is* death for the 'I'.

Then you will be only what you are, absolute being.

 

 

On another occasion Sri Ramana said to Swami Abhishiktananda:

 

"Do not meditate - be!

Do not think that you are - be!

Don't think about being - you are!"

 

 

----------

> on 15/4/00 9:29 pm, LBIDD at LBIDD wrote:

> It seems to me that Ramana isn't particularly pointing to conscoiusness

> or even subjectivity here as an answer, nor a way to disidentify with or

> slow down the flow of thoughts. Rather I think he is advising a sort of

> active meditation on the sense or feeling of "I". When I say "I" I mean

> something by that, although I couldn't exactly say what. I don't really

> mean consciousness or a kind of abstract subjectivity. I think the idea

> is to let oneself be pulled into the enquiry into what we mean by "I".

> Any comments? Can someone put this in better words?

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

The crux of Ramana's teachings is to abandon the egosense and be the

real Self. The usual meaning associated with 'I' is the egosense. But upon

enquiry, it will be found to be non-existent. Then the real Self alone will

remain.

 

If one enquires into the egosense, one will find that it has no identity.

Sometimes it identifies with the body, sometimes with the intellect, sometimes

with the memory and sometimes with the emotions. When one chases the egosense

relentlessly, in spite of it jumping from one to the other, finally one will

realise that it's existence is an illusion.

 

With love,

Gomu.

 

--

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Email: gomu

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Webpages: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1863

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[Guest guest]

Hi Gomu, just read your response. could you, or anyone, say something

about the "I,I" that Ramana sometimes talks about. I don't have a quote

handy, but if you don't know what I'm refering to I can look one up.

 

thanks, Larry

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 16 Apr 2000 LBIDD wrote:

 

> Hi Gomu, just read your response. could you, or anyone, say something

> about the "I,I" that Ramana sometimes talks about. I don't have a quote

> handy, but if you don't know what I'm refering to I can look one up.

>

> thanks, Larry

 

Dear Sri Larry,

 

You will find the refernce to "I,I" in "Upadesa Saram" that came

as Upadesa of Siva from Bhagawan Sri Ramana. The twentieth verse

of Upadesa Saram comes as follows:

 

Ahami Nashabhaaji "Aham,Aham" tayaa

Sphurati hrut swayam Paramapoorna Sat"

 

Ahami Nashabhaaji : When the egosense is destroyed (by the enquiry

"who am I", by seeking the source of the egosense

in the heart, - also see verses 10, 18 & 19)

 

tayaa : there,

 

hrut : in the heart,

 

swayam : by itself,

 

Paramapoorna Sat" : (The Eternal) Supreme Complete Truth

 

Sphurati : reverberates

 

"Aham,Aham" : as "I,I"

 

Here Ramana refers to "The Eternal" which reverberates as "... I,I,I ...."

for ever in the Heart of the Realized Soul (Jeevan Mukta) by the use of

the repeated "I,I" ("Aham, Aham").

 

A similar reference occurs in the verse of Sri Bhagawan

 

Hrudaya kuhara madhye kevalam Brahma maatram

Aham-Aham iti Sakshaat AtmaroopeNa Bhati.

~~~~~~~~~

 

One may also recollect the ringing words of the great Gandhian, late

Professor K Swaminathan introducing the music programme of All India

Radio arranged as part of the Celebrations of the Birth Centenary of

Bhagawan Sri Ramana in 1979, with songs rendered by the saintly voice

of Smt M S Subbulakshmi. The words of Prof. Swaminathan's words are now

available in the 1999 Aradhan Issue of the Mountain Path. Pages 9-12.

 

His translation of the second verse of Arunachala Pancharatanam

reads as follows.

 

He whose pue mind turned inward searches

Whence this 'I' arises knows

The Self aright and merges in You,

Aruna Hill, as a river in the sea.

 

Prof. Swaminatahan words describing the essence of the second verse

of Arunachala Pancharatanam ring as follows:

 

"In the second verse the real Self is exteriorized as the mountain on

which maya projects the world picture, and is again interiorized as

awareness which is bliss. Shiva dances as 'I' , 'I' in the Heart space

and soars in stillness as Aruna Hill"

 

I thank Sri Larry for having made me take a blissful dip into

the divine words of Bhagawan Sri Ramana.

 

Yours in Sri Bhagawan,

 

Suryanarayan email: suri

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, Gokulmuthu N wrote:

 

> Hello,

 

> The crux of Ramana's teachings is to abandon the egosense and be the

> real Self. The usual meaning associated with 'I' is the egosense.

> But upon enquiry, it will be found to be non-existent. Then the real

> Self alone will remain.

 

> If one enquires into the egosense, one will find that it has no

> identity. Sometimes it identifies with the body, sometimes with the

> intellect, sometimes with the memory and sometimes with the emotions.

> When one chases the egosense relentlessly, in spite of it jumping from

> one to the other, finally one will realise that it's existence is an

> illusion.

>

> With love,

> Gomu.

 

+++++

 

Gomu's paragraphs capture the essence of Bhagavan Sri Ramana's

upadesa very nicely.

 

Members may also refer to Upadesa Saram verses No 15 to 20 for the essence

of Bhagavan's Upadesa and verses 21 to 30 for further elaboration.

 

Yours in Sri Bhagavan,

 

S. Suryanarayan email: suri

[Guest guest]

Hi Larry,

To supplement Suryanarayan's nice account I found this explanation in Talks.

In Talk no. 266 Sri Ramana says,

"The real Self is the infinite 'I' - 'I', i.e. 'I' is perfection. It is eternal.

It has no origin and no end. The other 'I' is born and also dies. It is

impermanent. See to whom are the changing thoughts. They will be found to arise

after the 'I' - thought. Hold the 'I' - thought. They subside. Trace back the

source of the 'I' - thought. The Self alone will remain." (Talk 266)

"I' - 'I' is the reality. For this 'I' - 'I' to be felt, thoughts must cease and

reason disappear. It has been noted that this is initially 'felt' as a throb on

the right side of the chest. 'I' - 'I', 'I' - 'I'. This centre is the Hridaya,

which Sri Ramana has revealed as the seat of Pure Consciousness in the body.

This is the seat from which all experiences of the objective reality arise.

Thoughts cannot enter here. The 'I' - thought is stopped dead in its tracks.

When the source of this throbbing is attentively observed there is revelation of the Self.

To attain this through meditation or Enquiry is to revel in unalloyed Bliss. . . . . . . . . . . .

Miles

>Larry wrote:

Hi Gomu, just read your response. could you, or anyone, say something

about the "I,I" that Ramana sometimes talks about. I don't have a quote

handy, but if you don't know what I'm refering to I can look one up.

thanks, Larry <

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone for the references and comments. I'm having trouble

finding this Self heart. I can see how this ego self works, identifying

with this and that, and I have found a sense of self that isn't

identified with anything in particular, but it is still a

thought/feeling. Beyond this I see nothing. I'm in the dark and don't

know which way to go.

 

Larry

[Guest guest]

Hi Larry,

This sense of self without particular identification is commonly felt in

Self-enquiry. It is a temporary stilling of thoughts. When one experiences it

one should continue with the enquiry to find out who it is who experiences this

thought or feeling. Ramana has said that while this might be considered a sign

of progress by some it is followed by a return to normal thought patterns.

Enquire who continues to look beyond. The 'I'-thought is first to rise and the

last to go.

The Self is the Heart, and is self-luminous. There is no darkness there. As the

moon shines by the reflected light of the sun so the mind shines by the

reflected light of the Heart. The dimming of the mind is like the moon in

daylight. If the mind is turned towards the Heart it loses itself and the Heart

shines forth as always.

Miles

Thanks everyone for the references and comments. I'm having trouble

finding this Self heart. I can see how this ego self works, identifying

with this and that, and I have found a sense of self that isn't

identified with anything in particular, but it is still a

thought/feeling. Beyond this I see nothing. I'm in the dark and don't

know which way to go.

Larry

[Guest guest]

>

It has been noted that this is initially

'felt' as a

> throb on the right side of the chest. 'I' - 'I', 'I' - 'I'. This

centre is

> the Hridaya, which Sri Ramana has revealed as the seat of Pure

Consciousness

> in the body. This is the seat from which all experiences of the

objective

> reality arise. Thoughts cannot enter here. The 'I' - thought is

stopped dead

> in its tracks.

>

> When the source of this throbbing is attentively observed there is

> revelation of the Self.

> To attain this through meditation or Enquiry is to revel in

unalloyed Bliss.

 

I am reading through the postings. This is a fascinating bit of

information. Body-mind, connections between the manifest and

unmanifest, becoming truly aware of the connections. You say "it has

been noted"...by whom and where? Is this throb observed through self

inquiry? Thanks for any response. Terry

[Guest guest]

Dear Terry,

 

This, ' I - I ', is the constant japa ( or 'ajapa' -- unspoken chant, i.e.

effortless) of the Self in the Heart. It is never ceasing and eternally

uncaused. Sri Bhagavan has mentioned (in various places) that if it appears

in the body it does so in the Heart (hridayam) on the right side of the

chest. Yes, it can be observed during Self Enquiry. Bhagavan is careful to

explain however, that this does not mean that the Self resides in the body.

Rather the whole cosmos resides in the Heart.

 

At the beginning of Talks, Bhagavan states... "the physical organ is on the

left; that is not denied. But the Heart of which I speak is non-physical and

is only on the right side. It is my experience, no authority is required by

me. Still you can find confirmation in a Malayalam Ayurvedic book and in

'Sita Upanishad' "; and he produced the quotation (mantra) from the latter

and repeated the text (sloka) from the former. (Talk; 4)

 

It is also stated in Talks that... "Brahman is the Heart", "the Self is the

Heart." Again Bhagavan says that "there is no one who even for a trice fails

to experience the Self. "

 

Regards

Miles

-------------

 

> I am reading through the postings. This is a fascinating bit of

> information. Body-mind, connections between the manifest and

> unmanifest, becoming truly aware of the connections. You say "it has

> been noted"...by whom and where? Is this throb observed through self

> inquiry? Thanks for any response. Terry

[Guest guest]

I came across a more pertinent reference to this 'throbbing' from the seat

of consciousness (Hridaya) today. It is taken from the reply to an enquiry

sent to an English devotee by Sri T. K. Sundaresa Iyer. The reply was

approved by Bhagavan. It appears in "Moments Remembered" by V. Ganesan (Sri

Ramanasramam, 1994; 53)

 

"In the course of tracing ourselves back to our source, when all thoughts

have vanished, there arises a throb from the Hridaya on the right,

manifesting as 'Aham' 'Aham' ' I-I '. This is the sign that Pure

Consciousness is beginning to reveal itself. But that is not the end in

itself. Watch wherefrom this sphurana (throbbing) arises and wait

attentively and continually for the revelation of the Self. Then comes the

awareness, oneness of existence."

 

Regards

Miles

-------------

 

> I am reading through the postings. This is a fascinating bit of

> information. Body-mind, connections between the manifest and

> unmanifest, becoming truly aware of the connections. You say "it has

> been noted"...by whom and where? Is this throb observed through self

> inquiry? Thanks for any response. Terry