Clarity in living

[Guest guest]

I would like a reaction from the group regarding a

possible problem the young disciples of Sri Ramana or

for that matter any Guru could face.

Many of the youth could possibly be married.While one

of the partners would be an intense devotee of

Sriramana the other while believing in God would not

agree with this kind of devotion believing it would

lead to vairagya(detachment) and constantly loss of

worldly happiness and would constantly criticise the

other.This kind of attitude could very well shake the

the devotee's faith dithering as it probably would be

especially in the light of the modern world with its

attendant glamour seen in all facets ,like television,

movies,parties etc.

More seriously how would a young Ramana or any other

Guru's devotee be involved in maried life.I know that

Ramana has never condemned the householder.But what

would the householder's mindset be in the various

aspects of married life.(sexual

relations,children).Can he enjoy the sexual act and

the pleasure of being with his children and yet

successfully pursue the practices of self enquiry with

the aim of getting realisation in this very life and

achieve it.In other words can he have the cake(if the

above can be equated to the cake) and eat it too.

 

Regards,

 

S.Anand.

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

What is important is to do the duties, in whatever station

of life, without the sense of doership. Being a householder an

living with a family which has no aspirations of realization is

not a hinderance. Spiritual quest and aspiration is entirely

internal and personal. If a person finds the duties of the world,

including the commitments to wife and children, as obstacles, it

means there is a gross misunderstanding in the mind of the

aspirant about the spiritual quest. To be more frank, pleasing

one's spouse and carrying one's sick child to a hospital are both

equally duties of a householder. As long as they are done as

duties, there is no problem. It is like eating food, which is

a duty of every living being. Monks in India have a prayer

which is chanted before taking food. The prayer basically says

"The eater is Brahman. The food is Brahman. The articles used

(like plate, spoon, etc) are also Brahman. The digestive fire

is Brahman. The very act of eating is also Brahman. This act

is done by Brahman for Brahman with Brahman." Let householder

aspirants have the same attitude with other duties in the

world also. They can even chant the same mantra before every

act. Even if they feel uncomfortable in the beginning, this

mantra and thought will put them in the right attitude and

understanding.

 

With regards,

Gomu.

 

--- ANAND SUNDARAM <asundarama2000 wrote:

>

> I would like a reaction from the group regarding a

> possible problem the young disciples of Sri Ramana or

> for that matter any Guru could face.

> Many of the youth could possibly be married.While one

> of the partners would be an intense devotee of

> Sriramana the other while believing in God would not

> agree with this kind of devotion believing it would

> lead to vairagya(detachment) and constantly loss of

> worldly happiness and would constantly criticise the

> other.This kind of attitude could very well shake the

> the devotee's faith dithering as it probably would be

> especially in the light of the modern world with its

> attendant glamour seen in all facets ,like television,

> movies,parties etc.

> More seriously how would a young Ramana or any other

> Guru's devotee be involved in maried life.I know that

> Ramana has never condemned the householder.But what

> would the householder's mindset be in the various

> aspects of married life.(sexual

> relations,children).Can he enjoy the sexual act and

> the pleasure of being with his children and yet

> successfully pursue the practices of self enquiry with

> the aim of getting realisation in this very life and

> achieve it.In other words can he have the cake(if the

> above can be equated to the cake) and eat it too.

>

> Regards,

>

> S.Anand.

>

>

>

>

> Get email at your own domain with Mail.

> http://personal.mail./?.refer=text

>

>

>

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>

>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Gomu et al,

 

> "The eater is Brahman. The food is Brahman. The articles used

> (like plate, spoon, etc) are also Brahman. The digestive fire

> is Brahman. The very act of eating is also Brahman. This act

> is done by Brahman for Brahman with Brahman." Let householder

> aspirants have the same attitude with other duties in the

> world also.

 

All they see is his pleasure ground,

But Him no one sees at all.

 

Regards

Miles

[Guest guest]

If one is matured enough and has deep vairgya then married life may

not suit that individual and the only way is to renounce and search

for the truth or self.

 

But this is not the case with majority of us. We are bound by many

reponsibilities such as, to take care off aged mother or father and

sooner you get married, the wife and family as well. There is no point

at that time running away or trying to get away from materialistic and

other requirements. The right way to follow will be to have deep

bakthi to almighty and try and lead a pure and simple life. Satisfy

all reasonable and natural desires. Have healthy relation with wife

and obtain deserving children. Surrender to devine will. Put the

burden on him/her.

 

As time pass by not only we but others will also slowly but surely

change. When the mind is ripe enough they will themselves look for

ways to find the self. Live the full life, fulfil all desires, be

materialistic but in a straight forward and honest way, be

nice/helpful to family and friends and at the same time keep reading

about Ramana and emulate as far as possible his principles.

Do not run after money but do not fail to earn the same in right way.

 

What we must remember is that all are not equal. Hence while married,

it is only very rarely that we see husband and wife thinking alike and

doing things in a pre-agreed way. Differences are there and will be

there. It is like the the stone in rever bed. As the time goes by and

waves hit us (waves of desire, happiness and unhappines) the mind

gets polished and will take the right shape as the stones do.

 

My answer will be take things as they come. Almighty has placed one in

particular situation knowing fully well. Be honest and humble but

enjoy life as well. When the time to detach arrives Bagavan will take

care.

 

When unbearable troubles occur in my life, I sit before Buvaneswari

and shed tears in prayer. What else can we do. Leave it to her she

knows what to do.

 

Bala

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

> If one is matured enough and has deep vairgya then married life may

> not suit that individual and the only way is to renounce and search

> for the truth or self.

 

I disagree here. As a reference, look at the situation when the

Yoga Vashishta was narrated. Rama had understood the transience of the

world, but not realised the Truth. He became disinterested in all

royal affairs and pleasures. He did not even bother to wash himself.

It was at this time that sage Vishwamitra came to Dasaratha and asked

him to send Rama with him to protect his yagna. Seeing Rama in this

state, Vishwamitra asked Vasishta to clear the mind of Rama off all

confusion. After the long interactive session which extended for a

few days, Rama realised the Truth. Rama realized that he is not the

doer. Rama realized that he is pure Existence. Rama returned back to

the world. He did all his princely duties, married and led the life

of an ideal householder, ruled the country as an ideal king, etc.

 

Janaka is another example of a person who lived in the world

as a realized soul. There are several aspirants also who realized

the Truth being in the life of a householder. The classic example

from the Mahabharata is Vyadha, the butcher. There are several

householder disciples of Ramana and Ramakrishna who are no less

than the monastic disciples. Nisargadatta Mahraj was a householder.

 

Guru is necessary. Inner vairagya is necessary. Strong

aspiration (Mumukshutva) after truth is necessary. The external

life and robe of a monastic is not necessary. That monasticism

is necessary to realize the truth is concept which arose in

medival Buddhism. This concept is the main reason for the fall

of Buddhism in India. When this concept was cleared off in other

countries Buddhism survived. In India, instead of cleaning Buddhism,

the good aspects of Buddhism were absorbed into Hinduism and

Hinduism was revived. Let us again not make the same mistake by

saying monasticism is necessary for realization. The external

discipline and robe of a monastic is necessary for a spiritual

authority for social purposes. It is not necessary for a person

to realize the Truth for himself. Let us not compartmentalize

life saying "this is secular", "this is spiritual". It will lead

to ruin.

 

With regards,

Gomu.

 

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-----------------------------

[Guest guest]

I wrote a response to Anand but never sent it because I am just

a beginner on the path and i could sense that too much of my ego

was coming through. But there were so many excellent responses

from which I learned alot. So I thank Ananad for asking his

questions. And I have decvided to respond to questions when I

feel I'd like to. If others have set straight my mistakes, then

will have learned more than I would keeping silent to hide my

ignorance.

 

The following excerpt from Gomu's reply is related to part of

the response I never sent:

 

>discipline and robe of a monastic is necessary for a spiritual

>authority for social purposes. It is not necessary for a person

>to realize the Truth for himself.

 

I would add that perhaps the robe of a monastic is needed to win the trust

of beginning aspirants. I myself am moved by seeing realized masters in the

garb of an ascetic. It shows me that knowing God is all that is needed for

perfect contentment. I tend to distrust gurus who surround themselves with

worldly comfort and riches. I tend to distruct the California new age guru

who tends to be physically beautiful and socially adept. But many aspirants

are no doubt attracted to the path by a guru who demonstrates worldly

success. In my more clear states, I realize that both types of appearances

serve the same purpose. Neither is more or less valid. And the need to see

any particular aspect in a saint speaks more to our own weak faith, our

lack of understanding and our biases. In other words, we are human, so we

need to see God in a certain way.

 

Why could the saint not be the person next door? Because most people would

not take notice? Or they would not believe that they are realized? Most

expect a realized being to be different from the ordinary person, to have

done extraordinary things. Maybe it is like setting a high price for a

product in order to convince people of its value?

 

The disadvantage of having our saints different from us is that we wonder

if we have to change our wordly situation in order to become realized

ourselves. And we wonder if we can do it.

 

I sit with a lay zen group. My Roshi is a businessman with a wife and

daughter -- just like myself. Yet I have no doubt that he has recognized

his true nature and he can help guide me. I didn't seek such a guru, yet

the advantage of having such a spiritual guide is that I can make no excuse

for not making effort!

 

Tom DiCorcia