Guest guest Posted June 18, 2001 Report Share Posted June 18, 2001 Dear Tom, > I hope someone on the list help me gain insight into a > very basic question. Sri Ramana often asks his questioners > to consider the state of deep sleep in comparison to the > dreaming or waking state. > > The usual point, as I understand it, is that anything real > must also be existing in the state of deep sleep. OK, anything > I experience in dream or awake that is not present in deep > sleep is unreal. This is useful to know. But what is left? > "I" am aware of nothing while in deep sleep. The 'I' you are refering here is the mind. Obviously there is no mental awareness as there is no mind at all. The "I" Ramana talks about is the pure Subject which merely Exists. Obviously you exist even when you are in deep sleep. That which exists in deep sleep is the real Subject - the real "I". This "I" is the most fundamental part of you. This pure Subject is what you really are. > When we are tired, we long for sleep. When we have had a good > rest we are happy that we have slept. (As Sri Ramana has > pointed out). But who wants to stay in deep sleep, permanently? > Is enlightenment experienced as deep sleep? > Am I carrying the metaphor too far? Enlightenment is always there. It is not a state apart from the three states. It is that which exists in all the states. In waking and dream states, the Subject is not explicit due to the veiling aspect of the mind. The Subject is known as it really is when the veil of the mind is removed, or when the mind becomes pure Sattva and thus transparent. (Both amount to the same). Once the Self is known, the three states keep coming and going as before, but you are able to see yourself apart from these. The utility of the metaphor is to make you understand that you exist apart from your mind. With regards, Gomu. -- ----------------------------- Email: gomu Phone(Off): +91 44 4466448, 4466449 Phone(Res): +91 44 8140104 Webpage: http://www.geocities.com/gokulmuthu/ ----------------------------- It is better to wear out than to rust out. - Swami Vivekananda ----------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2001 Report Share Posted June 18, 2001 I hope someone on the list help me gain insight into a very basic question. Sri Ramana often asks his questioners to consider the state of deep sleep in comparison to the dreaming or waking state. The usual point, as I understand it, is that anything real must also be existing in the state of deep sleep. OK, anything I experience in dream or awake that is not present in deep sleep is unreal. This is useful to know. But what is left? "I" am aware of nothing while in deep sleep. When we are tired, we long for sleep. When we have had a good rest we are happy that we have slept. (As Sri Ramana has pointed out). But who wants to stay in deep sleep, permanently? Is enlightenment experienced as deep sleep? Am I carrying the metaphor too far? -- Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2001 Report Share Posted June 20, 2001 "Gokulmuthu N." <gokulmuthu wrote: > The utility of the metaphor is to make you understand that > you exist apart from your mind. Yes. Of course. This clarifies it for me. Thank you. -- Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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