Guest guest Posted August 13, 2001 Report Share Posted August 13, 2001 Namaste SrI Suri, Thank you for answering my question so thoroughly. This is a kindness and a blessing coming through you. It is lunch time here in New York, and grace has delivered this gift through you to celebrate the middle of the day! I hope you are taking as much pleasure in this as I am. In that spirit I will ask a few more questions. > Sri Osborne's translation captures the meaning of > the verse without any interpretation. My reference > usually begins with Sri Osborne 's book for any > verse of Bhagavan, probably because it was one > of the earliest books I acquired. Would you say that Sri Osborne's translation, in general, is the most literal? Although I can't read Tamil, I have the impression that Professor Mahadevan's translation is extremely accurate in a literal sense, because he seems to choose his words very carefully. Is this true? > > In this verse bhagavan has used the word "SerpaDam" > which represnts the cloth (canvas or screen) on > which the picture is created. Let me see if I understand -- this was really the crux of my question: Is SerpaDam both the ordinary word for "cinema screen" and the word for "cloth" in general? (What I was wondering was, I knew that Bhagavan frequently used the metaphor of a cinema screen, but I was surprised to see "cinema screen" mentioned in this poem, which has a high literary tone.) > > In the beginning of the 20th century when all these > verses were written, the movie film was well established > experience for many in India... This is a wonderfully clear explanation. Thank you, dear friend SrI Suri! namaste Rob - "suri suryanarayan" <suri_suryanarayan <RamanaMaharshi> Monday, August 13, 2001 11:26 AM [RamanaMaharshi] ULLADU NARPADU verse > > om namo bhagavate SrI ramaNAya > > (My mail got cluttered again! Hope this mail will be a more readable.) > > > Namaste SrI Rob, > > > Indeed it is a delightful to the read verses composed by Bhagavan in Tamil. > > > I have reproduced below the the meaning of the verse as given by the Sri Arthur Osborne in the book "The Collected Works of Ramana Maharshi". > > > I quote - Since we perceive the world we must agree unanimously that there is a power which is capable of becoming multiple. The picture of name and form, he who sees it, the cloth on which it is based (painted) and the light which illuminates it are all oneself.- Unquote. > > > It is difficult for me to say which is more accurate. Each translator has tried to add some meaning and depth which is not explicit in a literal word by word translation. Sri Osborne's translation captures the meaning of the verse without any interpretation. My reference usually begins with Sri Osborne 's book for any verse of Bhagavan, probably because it was one of the earliest books I acquired. > > > Now a little about the reference in the verse, to the canvas, screen or cloth which forms the base for the creation of any picture. > > > In this verse bhagavan has used the word "SerpaDam" which represnts the cloth (canvas or screen) on which the picture is created. > > > In the beginning of the 20th century when all these verses were written, the movie film was well established experience for many in India. Bhagavan had used, while explaining to devotees, the movie film as a metaphor for indicating the distinction between the various aspects of manifestation as a creation of the mind, and the Self as the underlying Truth of all that IS. In this example the pictute projected on the screen is what we see as the world of which we are a part, the film represents the mental images that we project, and the light from the lamp is the illumination of consciousness that makes it possible to perceive what we project. In this metaphor the film screen is the essential Truth (Real - unchanging) whereas the pictures projected on it are changing, impermanent and hence unreal. > > > In this verse, Bhagavan uses this metaphor to say that the names and forms that are seen, the seer, the screen on which they are seen (projected, based or painted) and the illumination of the lamp are all HE. > Hope the above is of some use. > > > namo ramaNA > > > namaste > > > suri > === > > > Rob Sacks <editor wrote: Dear Sri Suri, > > How wonderful it must be to read Bhagavan's words > in Tamil! > > Could you use your knowledge of Tamil to answer > a question that I've wondered about? > > It has to do with the very verse we're discussing. > There is a phrase that K. Lakshmana Sharma translates > as "cinema-show of names and forms." A. R. Natarajan > makes it "the screen on which it is projected." S.S. > Cohen makes it, "the canvas." Professor Mahadevan > says, "the basic canvas." > > Could you please tell us what this phrase is, literally, > in Tamil? > > Also, if you happen to have an opinion -- I don't want > you to go to any trouble -- but if you happen to have > an opinion as to which English translation is the most > accurate, I would like to know. > > Yours in Bhagavan, > > Rob > > > - > "suri suryanarayan" <suri_suryanarayan > <RamanaMaharshi> > Cc: <suri > Sunday, August 12, 2001 12:43 PM > [RamanaMaharshi] Re: ULLADU NARPADU verse: 6 > > > > > > om namo bhagavate SrI ramaNAya > > > > > > (My previous mail was cluttered and had some errors. This is a corrected version.) > > > > namaste Sri Adam, > > > > > > I have also looked into the book titled (ramaNa hRdayaM) "Revelation" now. I think the 'number' question is figured out now. The > books which I have looked into are as follows: > > > > > > A. uLLadu nArpadu :(in Tamil) with commentary in Tamil by 'WHO'. > > This book, contains only the verses composed by Bhagavan Sri Ramana. The first two invocatory verses are numbered 1 & 2. Then, > chapter 1 begins with the verse referred to, which is numbered as 1. the last verse is numbered 40. > > > > > > B. The book "ramaAa nUtriraTTu" which is collection of all the compositions of SrI Ramana in Tamil has the "40 verses on > Reality" in chapter 5, with the two invocatory verses not numbered. The numbering starts with the verse we are referring to as > number 1. > > > > C. The book by Sri Arthur Osborne "The collected works of Ramana Maharshi" has an English translation of these verses in > chapter 6 titled "Reality in 40 verses". The numbering is same as in that in the first book cited above. > > > > > > D. The book "sat-darSana bhAshya and talks with mahaRshi" by Kapali SAstri contains a commentary in English of the Sanskrit > translation of 'uLLadu nArpadu' composed by the great sanskrit scholar and Ramana devotee Sri Ganapati Sastri. In this book the > section called 'bhashya' starts with invocatory verses and the verse we are referrring to is numbered as the 3rd. After the 42nd > verse, there are two more verses 43 & 44, in praise of Sri Ramana by Sri Ganapati Sastri. This book also contains the original > verses in Tamil as an Annexure. There the numbering is same as that in the first book cited above. > > > > > > E. The tamil book "satdarSanaM" has a Tamil translation of the commentary of Sri Kapali Sastri in the book cited as D above. > The numbering in this book is same as that in the book cited above as A. > > > > > > F. The Tamil book "ramaNASrama tamizhppArAyaNa tiraTTu" contains the verses chanted every evening at Sri Ramanasramam. This > book contains two verses called pAyiram and then the two invocatory verses. The main verses (nUl) then begin with the verse we are > referring to numbered as 1. > > > > > > G. In the book titled (ramaNa hRdayaM) "Revelation" being referred by you the 40 verses on Reality are preceded by 3 verses > in praise of Sri Ramana called "granthavaraNam" and then the two invocatory verses. The numbering is however, continuous starting > from the first verse of "granthavaraNam". That's why the first of 40 verses on Reality became the 6th. The Sanskrit translation and > commentary are authored by WHO (Sri LakshmaNa Sarma). > > > > > > I have been familiar with the numbering commonly used in the Tamil books. So this doubt arose. > > > > > > May I request you to use the numbering as follows: I1 & I2 for the two invocatory verses. and then number 1 to 40 for the main > verses (which are referred to as "nul" in Tamil). > > > > > > There is a very beautiful composition by (WHO) Sri LashmaNa Sarma called "ramaNam bhajAmi" in sanskrit which has been made > immortal by the divine voice of Srimati M S Subbulakshmi. It is available as a prerecorded tape of the concert to mark the Sri > Ramana Centenary Celebrations, broadcast by All India radio (in 1980 January, I think). > > > > > > Salutations to Bhagavan Sri Ramana for making my mind dwell on an attribute (the number) of the 40 verses on Reality. Salutations > to Sri Adam for this opportunity. > > > > > > namo ramaNA > > > > > > namaste SrI Adam > > > > > > Yours ever > > > > > > suri > > > > > > Achala <ramanachala108 wrote: > > > > Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Arunachalaramanaya > > **************************************** > > > > > > Namaskar. > > Yes, it is the first verse of the 40 that make > > up the Ulladu Narpadu but the book that I took this > > from starts with a few benedicrtory verses that are > > numbered verses 1-5. > > > > This copy is titled "REVELATION" translated by > > K. Lakshmana Sarma "Who" and it is published by Sri > > Ramanasrama. > > > > Which copy do you have? > > > > > > Ever your in Sri Ramana, > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > Send a newsletter, share photos & files, conduct polls, organize chat events. Start your own . It's free! > > > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- > Un: RamanaMaharshi- > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/RamanaMaharshi > > Your use of is subject to > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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