An Interview with David Godman - realization.org

[Guest guest]

Dear Rob,

 

What a wonderful interview you did with David Godman! And I had to find this out

elsewhere? Also the excerpt from David's book is good reading.

Hey, please keep us in the know here in future.

 

With love,

Gloria

 

-

Jan Sultan

sworkalpha

Sunday, September 30, 2001 7:04 AM

An Interview with David Godman - realization.org

 

 

>From then on I stopped caring about money. In the period that I was

worrying about money, all I did was spend. When I stopped caring, complete

strangers would come up to me and give me money. Whenever I needed money,

money just appeared out of nowhere.

 

When I volunteered to look after Lakshmana Swamy's land in the late 80s, I

had about $20 to my name. Somebody in Canada whom I had spoken to for about

ten minutes two years before got out of bed and suddenly felt that he

should give me some money. He sent me $1,000, which was enough to get the

garden going. I lived like that for years. When you work for Gurus, God

pays the bills. That's my experience anyway.

 

An Interview with David Godman | 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

 

http://www.realization.org/page/doc0/doc0097a.htm

 

______________________

With Love,

Cyber Dervish

````````````````````````````````````````

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Gloria,

 

It's wonderful to know that somebody liked it.

Thank you for letting me know.

 

I was going to announce the interview here but was

waiting until I was sure that people can order "Power

of the Presence Part Two." David asked me to

announce both that book and the interview on all the

Advaita mailing lists, and I didn't want to spam them

twice, so I was waiting.

 

The interview came about because of Vicki's

messages here. All the talk about writing to him

for permission to reprint, etc., put the thought into

my head. (I told her already before she left on

vacation.)

 

Love,

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

-

"Gloria Lee" <glee

"RM" <RamanaMaharshi>

Sunday, September 30, 2001 12:48 PM

[RamanaMaharshi] An Interview with David Godman - realization.org

 

 

> Dear Rob,

>

> What a wonderful interview you did with David Godman! And I had to find this

out elsewhere? Also the excerpt from David's book is

good reading.

> Hey, please keep us in the know here in future.

>

> With love,

> Gloria

[Guest guest]

I join Gloria in congratulating you Rob. I have read only parts of it but an

excellent interview! You are the true "Interview Master" and ask great

questions which only a man who deeply understand Ramana Maharshi can ask.

Also you are a great writer Rob!

 

David Godman joins people like S.S. Cohen and Arthur Osborne before him as

one of the authentic interpreters of Ramana's teachings. David was

apparently influenced by the books of Arthur Osborne before him and he

states:

 

"I had at that time only managed to find Arthur Osborne's three books on

Ramana. Though they explained most aspects of the teachings quite well, I

don't think that Osborne had a good understanding of self-inquiry. He seemed

to think that concentrating on the heart center on the right side of the

chest while doing self-inquiry was an integral part of the process. When I

later read Bhagavan's answers in books such as Talks with Sri Ramana

Maharshi and Day by Day with Bhagavan, I realized that he specifically

advised against this particular practice."

 

My own comments are the David should have kept in mind that Aurthur Osborne

was a devotee of Sri Ramana and spent considerable time with Bhagavan. It is

quite likely that Osborne was following a practice that Sri Ramana advised

him to do. It is well known that Sri Ramana answered the questions of each

devotee slightly differently. Although Bhagavan's answers about not focusing

on a particular part of the body are universal and well known, David's

statement about Osborne not having a good understanding of self-enquiry

(because of Osborne's focus on the heart center to the right) is much too

strong.

 

I noticed Rob that you enquired about the Heart Center again in your

interview. Good for you! :-).

 

Given below is your question and David's answer.

 

Rob: There are some aspects of his spoken teachings that appear to be

unique. For example, his reference to the heart center on the right side of

the chest. He said that this was the source of the "I" and the place in the

body where the sense of "I" had to return in order for realization to take

place. People who talk about his teachings in the West rarely seem to

mention this point.

 

David: Ramana didn't mention it much either. On a few occasions when he was

asked about it, he said it was more important to have the experience of the

Self, rather than locate it in some part of the body. It is true that no

teacher who came before him ever mentioned this, but I would not say that

this is a major aspect of his teachings. Nor would I say that is necessary

to have this knowledge in order to have an experience of the Self.

 

My comments based on knowledge of the Heart as well as number of actual

conversations from "Talks with Ramana Maharshi" are that Sri Ramana spoke

about the term Heart on many different levels, and this included the

physical as well. David is of course right that Sri Ramana never taught that

the Self could be limited to some physical location in the body! But he is

too eager to dismiss an recurring theme in one aspect of Sri Ramana's

teaching which manifests many times in the "Talks". In fact, I recall

Ramana asked a questioner to refer to himself and when the questioner

pointed to himself on the right side of the chest, Sri Ramana said something

like , "See! there, you know it intuitively :-).

 

David is a good man and I am glad you did the interview Rob. The Heart Is

The Heart. Heart is the Self without support.

 

Love to all

Harsha

[Guest guest]

Dear Harsha,

 

Thanks very much! If the interview is any

good, David deserves a lot more credit than I do.

 

I confess that before that interview, I thought I had

some understanding of Ramana Maharshi. But

David's point about a different Ramana Maharshi

for each person struck very forcibly. Isn't David

right? As you yourself say in your message, Bhagavan

had a different teaching for each person. And he

himself wasn't a person, he was like a mirror

reflecting back what each person presented to him.

So who or what is there to understand?

 

And I've been reading David's new book, "The

Power of the Presence," and realizing that for

the people who knew Bhagavan, it was his

presence, his darshan, that affected them most

deeply. We acknowledge this in a way when we

say today that Bhagavan's real teaching was

silence. But this had a different meaning for his

devotees who were privileged to have darshan

of his physical body.

 

> David's statement about Osborne not having a

> good understanding of self-enquiry

> (because of Osborne's focus on the heart

> center to the right) is much too strong.

 

Could be, I don't know. David has lived at Sri Ramanasramam

for decades, talked to everybody who knew Sri Ramana,

read all the old letters and manuscripts that were piled up

in the library there, etc. etc. Is it possible that David has

some grounds for saying this beyond what we're aware of?

 

> I noticed Rob that you enquired about the Heart

> Center again in your interview. Good for you! :-).

 

It interests me a lot for some reason but in this case

there was a special reason for asking.

 

There seems to be a prevalent view among Western

Advaitans that realization is like a glimpse of nonduality,

except the glimpse becomes "stabilized," becomes a sort

of habit. I think this view emanates from the Papaji-

ambassadors -- from the devotees of Poonjaji who have

set themselves up as gurus. Or maybe it comes from

Buddhism. I don't know where it comes from.

 

But when I read about Sri Ramana's realization, or those

of his devotees like Lakshmana Swamy, realization seems

to be something else entirely. Asking about the heart

is one way to try to broach that subject. I think I asked

David three different ways in the interview. (I thought he

was in a good position to answer because he knew

Papaji so well.)

 

Love,

 

Rob

 

 

 

-

"Harsha" <harsha-hkl

<RamanaMaharshi>

Saturday, October 06, 2001 11:52 AM

RE: [RamanaMaharshi] An Interview with David Godman - realization.org

 

 

> I join Gloria in congratulating you Rob. I have read only parts of it but an

> excellent interview! You are the true "Interview Master" and ask great

> questions which only a man who deeply understand Ramana Maharshi can ask.

> Also you are a great writer Rob!

>

> David Godman joins people like S.S. Cohen and Arthur Osborne before him as

> one of the authentic interpreters of Ramana's teachings. David was

> apparently influenced by the books of Arthur Osborne before him and he

> states:

>

> "I had at that time only managed to find Arthur Osborne's three books on

> Ramana. Though they explained most aspects of the teachings quite well, I

> don't think that Osborne had a good understanding of self-inquiry. He seemed

> to think that concentrating on the heart center on the right side of the

> chest while doing self-inquiry was an integral part of the process. When I

> later read Bhagavan's answers in books such as Talks with Sri Ramana

> Maharshi and Day by Day with Bhagavan, I realized that he specifically

> advised against this particular practice."

>

> My own comments are the David should have kept in mind that Aurthur Osborne

> was a devotee of Sri Ramana and spent considerable time with Bhagavan. It is

> quite likely that Osborne was following a practice that Sri Ramana advised

> him to do. It is well known that Sri Ramana answered the questions of each

> devotee slightly differently. Although Bhagavan's answers about not focusing

> on a particular part of the body are universal and well known, David's

> statement about Osborne not having a good understanding of self-enquiry

> (because of Osborne's focus on the heart center to the right) is much too

> strong.

>

> I noticed Rob that you enquired about the Heart Center again in your

> interview. Good for you! :-).

>

> Given below is your question and David's answer.

>

> Rob: There are some aspects of his spoken teachings that appear to be

> unique. For example, his reference to the heart center on the right side of

> the chest. He said that this was the source of the "I" and the place in the

> body where the sense of "I" had to return in order for realization to take

> place. People who talk about his teachings in the West rarely seem to

> mention this point.

>

> David: Ramana didn't mention it much either. On a few occasions when he was

> asked about it, he said it was more important to have the experience of the

> Self, rather than locate it in some part of the body. It is true that no

> teacher who came before him ever mentioned this, but I would not say that

> this is a major aspect of his teachings. Nor would I say that is necessary

> to have this knowledge in order to have an experience of the Self.

>

> My comments based on knowledge of the Heart as well as number of actual

> conversations from "Talks with Ramana Maharshi" are that Sri Ramana spoke

> about the term Heart on many different levels, and this included the

> physical as well. David is of course right that Sri Ramana never taught that

> the Self could be limited to some physical location in the body! But he is

> too eager to dismiss an recurring theme in one aspect of Sri Ramana's

> teaching which manifests many times in the "Talks". In fact, I recall

> Ramana asked a questioner to refer to himself and when the questioner

> pointed to himself on the right side of the chest, Sri Ramana said something

> like , "See! there, you know it intuitively :-).

>

> David is a good man and I am glad you did the interview Rob. The Heart Is

> The Heart. Heart is the Self without support.

>

> Love to all

> Harsha

>

[Guest guest]

 

Rob Sacks [editor]

Saturday, October 06, 2001 2:04 PM

RamanaMaharshi

Re: [RamanaMaharshi] An Interview with David Godman -

realization.org

 

 

Dear Harsha,

 

Thanks very much! If the interview is any

good, David deserves a lot more credit than I do.

 

I confess that before that interview, I thought I had

some understanding of Ramana Maharshi. But

David's point about a different Ramana Maharshi

for each person struck very forcibly. Isn't David

right? As you yourself say in your message, Bhagavan

had a different teaching for each person. And he

himself wasn't a person, he was like a mirror

reflecting back what each person presented to him.

So who or what is there to understand?

 

And I've been reading David's new book, "The

Power of the Presence," and realizing that for

the people who knew Bhagavan, it was his

presence, his darshan, that affected them most

deeply. We acknowledge this in a way when we

say today that Bhagavan's real teaching was

silence. But this had a different meaning for his

devotees who were privileged to have darshan

of his physical body.

 

> David's statement about Osborne not having a

> good understanding of self-enquiry

> (because of Osborne's focus on the heart

> center to the right) is much too strong.

 

Could be, I don't know. David has lived at Sri Ramanasramam

for decades, talked to everybody who knew Sri Ramana,

read all the old letters and manuscripts that were piled up

in the library there, etc. etc. Is it possible that David has

some grounds for saying this beyond what we're aware of?

********************************

I think David has good grounds for making that point about Arthur Osborne's

view based on some of Sri Ramana's words themselves. Good grounds are

entirely irrelevant. Bhagavan as you know said different things at different

times depending on the context and the devotee. The Sage was interested in

guiding to Self-Realization by whatever method was most efficient for a

devotee.

 

When I was very young in the 1970s, I came across, "Talks with Ramana

Maharshi." I was too innocent to know that other books probably existed

about the Sage. I was fortunate and spared the time engaging speculations

and interpretations about what Sri Ramana's teachings really meant. The

words of Bhagavan as given in the "Talks" provided everything needed.

 

All speculation and interpretations wither at the door of the Heart. The

Guru is not the body. There is no time or place when the Guru or Grace are

absent. Sri Ramana often said that Guru and Grace are the same thing. The

movement of Grace leads to the Heart and Reveals It Self to Be the Heart.

The Heart Is Eternal Silence and the Finality and Purity of Being.

 

Love to all

Harsha

[Guest guest]

Hello dear Vicki!

 

I hope you had a wonderful vacation. Welcome home!

 

Did you travel somewhere with the children?

 

Thank you for encouraging the wonderful surprise

to happen!

 

Rob

 

 

-

"viorica weissman" <viorica

<RamanaMaharshi>

Sunday, October 07, 2001 4:25 PM

Re: [RamanaMaharshi] An Interview with David Godman - realization.org

 

 

> Our dear Rob ,

>

> first of all - hello to you and hello everybody ,

> well, i don't know what sounds best -

> maybe : hello everybody and only afterwards hello to you ?!

> this is not such a serious problem anyway ,

> i only wanted to say hello ;

>

> and i also wanted to say that what happened proves that

> " Things may turn out differently from what they look apparently."

> is so true ;

>

> thank you for your wonderful surprize ,

>

> vicki

>

>

>