Gabriele, Gloria, Sandeep, Poly

January 9, 2002

Dearest Gabriele, Gloria, Sandeep, Poly:

Thanks for your loving responses.

I guess it is a matter of not wanting to be betrayed that prevents me from

loving the Guru. So, this path allows one to just love the Guru's words.

As far as feeling that emanation from the Guru.

UG had an audience with Ramana and it even is recorded in Ramana's Talks with

Ramana. UG did not feel anything when he experienced Ramana, so he said.

Remember in that book about the questions he asked.

They may be somewhat off point but they always stick in my mind.

These are not exact quotes.

UG: Can one be free some of the time and not at other times?

Ramana: Your either free or your not free at all.

UG: Can you give me what you have?

Ramana: I can give it but can you take it.

Now if you read the Mystique of Enlightenment, you will find out how much

suffering UG went through when that transformation on the cellular level

appeared in him. Did Ramana actually give it to UG and it was set off at a later

date, when he was ripe? Does one need that transmission from the Guru to attain

that state?

My point is that although UG felt nothing, he was transformed anyway. I hope it

is the same for me. No one wants it more than I do. I will take any pain that

ensues during the transformation. When I am finished with my family obligations

I will give up everything and sit is meditation all waking hours, except for

body maintenance issues.

Aloha,

Alton

January 10, 2002

In a message dated 1/10/2002 2:06:58 AM Central Standard Time,

leenalton writes:

> I guess it is a matter of not wanting to be betrayed that prevents me from

> loving the Guru. So, this path allows one to just love the Guru's words.

>

*I understand completely. When I was very young I had a series of what are

called out of body experiences. I had no idea what that was about, but soon

afterward ran into a book by a VERY dubious group called "Eckankar" who

explained the phenomena. I became very devoted to that group and surrendered

completely to its "guru" (who demanded money for everything) there were

moments of bliss to be sure, but after years of devoted service I discovered

that its lineage was completely fabricated and it's teachings plagarized.

This created in me a wound so deep I never thought I'd recover and I wandered

from teacher to teacher never being able to land because I scrutinized

everything looking for clues to betrayal. Finally I reached a point of trust

with certain Sufi teachers, and more recently Ramana. It has been a long hard

road,

but at the same time while Advaita wisely discourages too much emphasis on

the teachers body (there are too many gurus who take advantage of devotion) I

still feel a very natural love for Ramana, Like one would feel for a parent.

The compassion displayed by him for humanity naturally brings out this love.

Please do not misunderstand what I am saying as any kind of judgement for

your position, it isn't. Your relationship to the divine is yours alone, I

simply wanted to share my experience as trust is a big factor in my

relationship too.

Peace

Poly

January 10, 2002

Thanks Poly:

I tend to believe that Ramana was pure but I am not so sure about any other

Guru's I investigated of took initiation from. I deleted all my typed in files

with Nisagadatta's dialogue when someone posted a report of a visit to him. I

wont tell you what was in there because I don't want to judge someone else when

my mind needs purification, but I recovered and remembered that Nisargadatta

said it is the words and not the guru that you should abide it. His words are

non-comparable to me. They may not even be his words but embellished by the

translators, but so what, It motivates me to practice and seek the source.