God, Guru and Self are one

[Guest guest]

Dear Sai,

 

Bhakti to the form of the Guru does not mean to glue on his form. It is a mere

vehicle which brings you somewhere. Otherwise it would be misunderstood and lead

to emotional dependency. This indeed would lead in the opposite direction. The

form as mere form is not worthy of any worship.

The joy and love comes not really from the form itself but from the power of the

Self which shines through the form. The Guru is not the from but the Self, as

Gloria has pointed out rightly and which is the teaching of Ramana.

 

"A spiritually-minded man thinks that God is all-pervading and takes God for his

Guru. Later, God brings him in contact with a personal Guru and the man

recognises him as all in all. Lastly the same man is made by the grace of his

Master to feel that his Self is the Reality and nothing else. Thus he finds

that the Self is the Master."

(Talks, Talk 23)

 

How I personally relate to Ramana? The same as most disciples very naturally do:

I relate to him as my mother, father, brother, friend, as my guru, as my god, as

my all in all, as my own Self. Sri Ramana has a certain power to enwoke love and

surrender. This is also a common experience amongst devotees. But love and

surrender to Ramana can be nothing else than love and surrender to the Self as

he is nothing than the Self. For example what shines in the form of his eyes is

the light of the Self which shines within your own heart. When you are drawn to

his eyes you are drawn to the Self. The eyes of the guru are the vehicle that

brings you to the awareness of the pure light which shines brightly in your

spiritual heart. Sri Ramana had and has the power to lead the disciple in that

direction. It is his leading power which brings you there.

 

But, dear Sai, I can't give you any real answer to your personal question which

you can ony answer by yourself. I can only speak a little bit of the experiences

of Ramana-devotees. Perhaps it sounds a little bit confusing in your ears. If

you study the life and teaching of Ramana you can find a lot of hints.

 

In Sri Ramana

Gabriele

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Gabriel

 

> Bhakti to the form of the Guru does not mean to glue on his form. It is a

mere vehicle which brings you somewhere. Otherwise it would be misunderstood

and lead to emotional dependency. This indeed would lead in the opposite

direction. The form as mere form is not worthy of any worship.

> The joy and love comes not really from the form itself but from the power

of the Self which shines through the form. The Guru is not the from but the

Self, as Gloria has pointed out rightly and which is the teaching of Ramana.

 

Yes i hear you. I think maybe emotional dependency is something i worry of

(my emotions have a strong pull on me)

 

> "A spiritually-minded man thinks that God is all-pervading and takes God

for his Guru. Later, God brings him in contact with a personal Guru and the

man recognises him as all in all. Lastly the same man is made by the grace

of his Master to feel that his Self is the Reality and nothing else. Thus

he finds that the Self is the Master."

> (Talks, Talk 23)

 

I guess the "recognising him "as all in all" is the crucial/important factor

here

 

> How I personally relate to Ramana? The same as most disciples very

naturally do: I relate to him as my mother, father, brother, friend, as my

guru, as my god, as my all in all, as my own Self. Sri Ramana has a certain

power to enwoke love and surrender. This is also a common experience amongst

devotees. But love and surrender to Ramana can be nothing else than love and

surrender to the Self as he is nothing than the Self. For example what

shines in the form of his eyes is the light of the Self which shines within

your own heart. When you are drawn to his eyes you are drawn to the Self.

The eyes of the guru are the vehicle that brings you to the awareness of the

pure light which shines brightly in your spiritual heart...

 

You put it so nicely!

 

> But, dear Sai, I can't give you any real answer to your personal question

which you can ony answer by yourself. I can only speak a little bit of the

experiences of Ramana-devotees. Perhaps it sounds a little bit confusing in

your ears. If you study the life and teaching of Ramana you can find a lot

of hints.

 

This i shall no doubt do. Do you have a favorate book that you feel gives a

good 'flavour' of Ramana? Do you think P Brunton gave an accurate portrayal

in his "secret search" book (keep meaning to buy a copy!)

 

I don't know whether it so much sounds confusing to me; i feel i

intellectually understand the relationship between Guru and devotee; it's

more about how in practice i'm actually relating - whether i'm connecting

emotionally(seperation) or consciously seeing/feeling the unity. I think

it's probably a mixture of the two. Thinking on it now; is that not how all

devotees must relate - untill the time comes when the outer guru is no

longer needed?

 

Perhaps i'm worrying too much about it and need to relax - it's like half my

mind is saying "forget the form - realise 'It' within you" and the other

half is saying " take what you can from the form" Aaargghh!!! i've had this

uncertainty with me for several years now of how to proceed in my sadhana,

and i know that that uncertainty has had an effect of 'dampening down the

fire of intensity' in any direction

 

I don't want this lukewarm intensity to continue any longer. It feels like

my soul is nudging me to 'fan the flame'...

 

Love

Sai