Cecile and Viorica

[Guest guest]

Dear Cecile and Viorica because you posted in agreement:

Thanks for responding.

 

This is my view and I will admit that it might be erroneous. I am here to learn

and appreciate other more informative views. The statement that I would turn

down realization was, now that I considered it, an exaggeration. My wife knew

that I was hyperbalizing and we both laughed at it.

 

It is fine to have those experiences of realization or going up and seeing

light. I am not sure that I have had the experience of realization, because no

one will tell me exactly what they realized in detail, but I have gone up and

asked the question, "Who AM I" many times. I got a tremendous rush and the

feeling of going higher very fast. {So what people on drugs do that every day.}

To me that is fine to indicate that there is something other than waking

consciousness, which is as motivating force to continue diligent practice..

However, Nisargadatta and Ramana both allude to a quiet mind, which I don't

have, but believe I will attain by practice.

 

So to me being able to catch the thoughts as they arise, so as not to be

distracted by incessant thought identification is my immediate goal. The hell

with realization. That means nothing to me if my mind cannot focus on the space

between the thoughts, because it is not powereful enough to do that. So to me it

is important to have a more powerful mind for practice. I already believe

without a doubt that I am not the body and that the teachings of Ramana and

Nisargadatta are in perfect alienment with everything that I believe about

spirituality. That is why I spend most of my waking day with it. When the mind

gets so powerful as to stay in the present time the transformation may happen as

per Nisagadatta, Ramana and U.G Krishnamurti.

 

Now if someone is satisfied with that REALIZATION EXPERIENCE, that is wonderful

for them but not me.

 

Ramana and Nisargadatta, from my readings had a trance capacity. I just read

that Ramana would go into a trace many times before he had his death

experience..

 

Since I am not fortunate to have that trance capacity, I will have to work to

strengthen my mindfulness before I can hold on the space between the thoughts,

or the sense of consciousness presence or the "I Am without words. I hold on to

the "I Am" but I must be aware of my wondering mind or I loose it. I follow

Nisargadatta's directions, to refuse all thoughts expect the "I AM".

 

Now this is the test for trance capacity

I got this from the foremost MD self hypnosis teacher. First is the hand clasp.

If when you clasp your hands, if you put the left thumb over the right thumb

you have one of the elements of a trance capacity person. The other one is the

eye roll. If by looking up someone can only see the whites of your eyes you have

another element of trace capacity. For these individual holding the attention on

the attention is a "piece of cake".

 

..When I hear of someone that says they are realized, I ask them a series of

questions. Do they have "I' thoughts? Do they perceive objects, etc. I did that

to a list owner who said he was realized and got banned from his list. I admit

that I was wrong in pressing the issue and I would only ask once and not force

my reality on a person again.

 

All comments appreciated.

Aloha,

I AM....formerly Alton Slater

 

dear Alton,

When I read your message I noticed same emphasis on practicing;

I said nothing as I think that everyone knows best for oneself

what has to do or that what he is doing is the right thing to do at the

moment;

but as Cecile mentioned this , I to her opinion;

 

~~~ viorica.

 

 

> "YOU APPEAR TO BE ONE OF THE GIFTED ONES. I AM NOT AND WILL HAVE TO

> WORK 10 HOURS PER DAY FOR 10 YEARS TO REALIZE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE IN A FEW

> MOMENTS. NOW THERE WILL BE LOTS OF SOULS HERE THAT WILL SAY THAT MY

LIMITING

> MODELS ARE PREVENTING REALIZATION. THAT MAY BE TRUE, BUT I WILL NOT ACCEPT

> REALIZATION OF THE SELF UNLESS I WORK FOR IT. IF RAMANA OR GOD OFFERED IT

TO

> ME RIGHT NOW I WOULD REFUSE IT POINT BLANK."

> Dear Alton

> I have quoted your words above without repeating the whole story -

> I could not help responding, and I hope you will accept what I say in the

> affectionate spirit in which it is offered- it seems odd that you are

> practising self-inquiry on the one hand, and on the other are so

determined

> to feel that your practise is more important than the goal? IT is not

going

> to be offered to you - it is already there, and the offer would surely

mean,

> do YOU want to 'be there' as well, or do you want to give up your personal

> sense? Or have I misunderstood you and the teachings altogether? It

appears

> to me that 'REFUSE IT POINT BLANK' means YOU are determined to 'be there',

> practising.

> With love

> Cecile

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

You are most delightful. Viorica!

 

viorica_weissman [viorica_weissman]

Tuesday, 16 April 2002 10:31 PM

RamanaMaharshi

[RamanaMaharshi] Re: Cecile and Viorica

 

 

 

 

dear Alton ,

 

whenever I read your emails I notice you accept very

easily somebody else's opinion and you see yourself

and drop your opinion very easily if you feel it

it is not very useful;

or laugh at it and yourself;

I think this is a very good thing ;

another good thing is that you have such a good

companion in your wife to laugh at yourself with;

 

You say you are here to learn ;

I am here to give everything up , let go of anything ,

and without such a hard meditation practice ,

things happen ;

 

So I think it would be better to go our own way

and not make rules out of other people's realization ;

 

i'll adopt your aloha when replying to you,

sounds very good to me,

so -

aloha,

 

v.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Thank you, my sweet one. I have to be careful of what I say, because people

searching for the real meaning of life seem to be much more sensitive to

comments than most, and easily take offence - but sometimes the sincerity of

the person almost 'forces' one to say something, even at the cost of hurting

them a little. I love your company, and that of the other Bhaktas - it is

amazing that we have this avenue of internet to keep company with each

other.

viorica weissman [viorica]

Wednesday, 17 April 2002 10:51 PM

RamanaMaharshi

Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Re: Cecile and Viorica

 

 

dear Cecile ,

 

it is a pleasure to know and hear members of Ramana

Maharshi's list speaking ; I have the feeling I had to be here

in this company , to be with you , speak with you , share with you

and with all the members of Ramana's family ;

 

Your answer to Alton written with such delicacy and care was

a pleasure to read , hope you'll write to us more ,

 

gratefully,

viorica.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Viorica,

 

Yes, reality is in us, not the other way around.

 

Ramana once, when asked about the difference between dreaming and the

waking state, said that the difference is that dreams change faster.

 

Yes, most live as their own idea(s) of themselves in their own idea

of the world. Yet someone knows this idea of ego and world. Who is

she? Where does the sense of reality arise? In the ego/world? Or

in Being-Consciousness-Bliss?

 

And naturally, no amount of conceptual knowledge about this can free

anyone, what it takes is experience that leads to Self-knowledge.

 

Ramana taught us who to look directly into Being with Inquiry.

 

 

Thank you for being so open with your communication to this group.

 

We are Not two,

Richard

 

 

RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote:

> dear Cecile,

> Giant snip

>

> That is what happened to me today - realizing that each of us

carries a mind

> that

> enslaves us so , then how can we be guilty of anything ?

>

> Snip

> viorica.

>