Guest guest Posted April 16, 2002 Report Share Posted April 16, 2002 Deare Viorica: Thanks for you sage observations. You wrote: "You say you are here to learn ; I am here to give everything up , let go of anything , and without such a hard meditation practice , things happen" ; Viorica, I am here to learn how to give up everything. My ego says I can do it now, but to wait until I finish my family obligations so as not to cause the same problems that I supposedly did in a previous life, when I left my wife and son to become a monk. I dont think though, that I will be able to learn how to give up giving up everything. That might be necessary to get through the door of the Absolute. Some psychic came to our house and told me I have too much desire. That would be a hard thing to give up as that is my only gift this lifetime. You wrote more: "So I think it would be better to go our own way and not make rules out of other people's realization" ; How about making rules but being able to change them if they are not working. The most important thing in my opinion is to honor diversity. Can I tell someone who is gifted, that only meditates 1/2 hour per day to meditate 6 hours per day? We are given unique qualities and we are in harmony with our elemental natures is we go with that flow. Aloha, Alton - In RamanaMaharshi, "viorica_weissman" <viorica_weissman> wrote: > > > dear Alton , > > whenever I read your emails I notice you accept very > easily somebody else's opinion and you see yourself > and drop your opinion very easily if you feel it > it is not very useful; > or laugh at it and yourself; > I think this is a very good thing ; > another good thing is that you have such a good > companion in your wife to laugh at yourself with; > > You say you are here to learn ; > I am here to give everything up , let go of anything , > and without such a hard meditation practice , > things happen ; > > So I think it would be better to go our own way > and not make rules out of other people's realization ; > > i'll adopt your aloha when replying to you, > sounds very good to me, > so - > aloha, > > v. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2002 Report Share Posted April 17, 2002 Dear Alton, If I may, a couple of comments. You talked about being told that you have "too much desire." Desire for Realization is one of Sankara's "Requisites for Realization." I have heard more than once from Nome that this is an area where you cannot have "too much desire." Also, Self-inquiry is compatible with the life of a householder. We do not need to go to the forest to practice. Ramana says that doing Self-inquiry only in mediation periods is just for beginners. Self- inquiry does not require any special place, time or posture. It merely requires continuing to turn your attention again and again to your own identity. You talk about conditions for your own Realization, like "when I finish my family obligations ..." I suggest that this is just another idea. Are you that idea? As you deepen spiritually, the joy and love that you bring into your life lights up the life of those around you. What is the need to wait? Who is it, anyway, that is tending to these family obligations? Are you the doer? I think it is wonderful that you are so sincere in your spiritual efforts. Also, that you have the courage to share some part of this with all of us. We are all of us together explorers into the Self. The words of those that preceded us can serve as signposts. We can also offer one another what we are learning. We are Not two, Richard RamanaMaharshi, "lostnfoundation" <leenalton@h...> wrote: > Deare Viorica: > Thanks for you sage observations. > > You wrote: > "You say you are here to learn ; > I am here to give everything up , let go of anything , > and without such a hard meditation practice , > things happen" ; > > Viorica, I am here to learn how to give up everything. My ego says I > can do it now, but to wait until I finish my family obligations so as > not to cause the same problems that I supposedly did in a previous > life, when I left my wife and son to become a monk. I dont think > though, that I will be able to learn how to give up giving up > everything. That might be necessary to get through the door of the > Absolute. Some psychic came to our house and told me I have too much > desire. That would be a hard thing to give up as that is my only gift > this lifetime. > > You wrote more: "So I think it would be better to go our own way > and not make rules out of other people's realization" ; > > How about making rules but being able to change them if they are not > working. > The most important thing in my opinion is to honor diversity. > Can I tell someone who is gifted, that only meditates 1/2 hour per > day to meditate 6 hours per day? We are given unique qualities and we > are in harmony with our elemental natures is we go with that flow. > > Aloha, > Alton > > > > - In RamanaMaharshi, "viorica_weissman" <viorica_weissman> > wrote: > > > > > > dear Alton , > > > > whenever I read your emails I notice you accept very > > easily somebody else's opinion and you see yourself > > and drop your opinion very easily if you feel it > > it is not very useful; > > or laugh at it and yourself; > > I think this is a very good thing ; > > another good thing is that you have such a good > > companion in your wife to laugh at yourself with; > > > > You say you are here to learn ; > > I am here to give everything up , let go of anything , > > and without such a hard meditation practice , > > things happen ; > > > > So I think it would be better to go our own way > > and not make rules out of other people's realization ; > > > > i'll adopt your aloha when replying to you, > > sounds very good to me, > > so - > > aloha, > > > > v. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2002 Report Share Posted April 17, 2002 Dear Viorica: You wisely wrote again {snip}. What is there to 'wait until'? OK: I will put plan A into action. Firstly I will leave my wife so that I can put my attention 100 percent on self inquiry. This includes sitting meditation and walking meditation 14 or more hours per day. I will give up the TV, Radio, Telephone etc., and everything except that which gives energy to do the practice. I will take a vow of silence and only write on a pad to communicate when necessary. I will cover all the mirrors and wear a blind fold most of the time. Said with "tongue in cheek" p.s Please don't tell me attachments are only in the mind and it is unnecessary to go into the forest and become a hermit. My elements and Gunas are directing me. LOL. Aloha, I AM RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > > Viorica, I am here to learn how to give up everything. My ego says I > > can do it now, but to wait until I finish my family obligations so as > > not to cause the same problems that I supposedly did in a previous > > life, when I left my wife and son to become a monk. > > dear Alton, > > this 'wait until' caused much missing and frustration in my life; > I felt intuitively that that was a great cause of my frustration but > because > several times it proved to be the 'wise' thing to do , I failed to admit it > and dwelt on it; I don't know if I entirely eliminated this 'wait until' > from my life , > but anyway it is acknowledged as the 'enemy' ; > What is there to 'wait until'? Eckhart Tolle in his book says that this is > letting the mind jump in the future and obstructing our sence of > being present now , something like that ; it is a game of the mind > not to let us fully be , as we might suddenly discover it doesn't exist > and so it will have to vaporize completely and our self with it either ; > > > > > > I dont think > > though, that I will be able to learn how to give up giving up > > everything. That might be necessary to get through the door of the > > Absolute. Some psychic came to our house and told me I have too much > > desire. > > It is not the first time when you mentioned this ; > what I noticed is that what people say or think about me it is right > perhaps - not always - , in that very moment , hour,minute of that > very day ; desires,feelings,thoughts change continuosly or even > dissapear completely when we are aware of them as we are , > otherwise we wouldn't be here . > If somebody saw such a strong desire in you , it could have been > correct to speak about it at that time that it was observed , > or it might have been his very own ; > I think that this is a dead observation belonging to the past that > could be valid no more ; you know better , don't have to say. > > > How about making rules but being able to change them if they are not > > working. > > When one makes rules to himself , I think it is a mind building > rules; > I gave up to the Unknown ; I build no rules, no future plans; > I let it build, whatever comes; sometimes I am frightened, > but this kind of giving up can not be taken back. > > > The most important thing in my opinion is to honor diversity. > > I think so too. Don't we honor it already by our presence here > ? > > We are given unique qualities and we > > are in harmony with our elemental natures is we go with that flow. > > Aloha ! > > > Aloha, > > Alton > > Aloha, > viorica. RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > > Viorica, I am here to learn how to give up everything. My ego says I > > can do it now, but to wait until I finish my family obligations so as > > not to cause the same problems that I supposedly did in a previous > > life, when I left my wife and son to become a monk. > > dear Alton, > > this 'wait until' caused much missing and frustration in my life; > I felt intuitively that that was a great cause of my frustration but > because > several times it proved to be the 'wise' thing to do , I failed to admit it > and dwelt on it; I don't know if I entirely eliminated this 'wait until' > from my life , > but anyway it is acknowledged as the 'enemy' ; > What is there to 'wait until'? Eckhart Tolle in his book says that this is > letting the mind jump in the future and obstructing our sence of > being present now , something like that ; it is a game of the mind > not to let us fully be , as we might suddenly discover it doesn't exist > and so it will have to vaporize completely and our self with it either ; > > > > > > I dont think > > though, that I will be able to learn how to give up giving up > > everything. That might be necessary to get through the door of the > > Absolute. Some psychic came to our house and told me I have too much > > desire. > > It is not the first time when you mentioned this ; > what I noticed is that what people say or think about me it is right > perhaps - not always - , in that very moment , hour,minute of that > very day ; desires,feelings,thoughts change continuosly or even > dissapear completely when we are aware of them as we are , > otherwise we wouldn't be here . > If somebody saw such a strong desire in you , it could have been > correct to speak about it at that time that it was observed , > or it might have been his very own ; > I think that this is a dead observation belonging to the past that > could be valid no more ; you know better , don't have to say. > > > How about making rules but being able to change them if they are not > > working. > > When one makes rules to himself , I think it is a mind building > rules; > I gave up to the Unknown ; I build no rules, no future plans; > I let it build, whatever comes; sometimes I am frightened, > but this kind of giving up can not be taken back. > > > The most important thing in my opinion is to honor diversity. > > I think so too. Don't we honor it already by our presence here > ? > > We are given unique qualities and we > > are in harmony with our elemental natures is we go with that flow. > > Aloha ! > > > Aloha, > > Alton > > Aloha, > viorica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2002 Report Share Posted April 17, 2002 Dear Alton, If I may, a couple of comments. You talked about being told that you have "too much desire." Desire of Realization is one of Sankara's Requisites for Realization. I have heard more than once from Nome that this is an area where you cannot have "too much desire." Also, Self-inquiry is compatible with the life of a householder. We do not need to go to the forest to practice. Ramana says that doing Self-inquiry only in mediation periods is only for the beginners. Self-inquiry does not require any special place, time or posture. It merely requires continuing to turn your attention again and again to your own identity. You talk about conditions for your own Realization, like "when I finish my family obligations ..." I suggest that this is just another idea. Are you that idea? As you deepen spiritually, the joy and love that you bring into your life lights up the life of those around you. What is the need to wait? Who is it, anyway, that is tending to these family obligations? Are you the doer? I think it is wonderful that you are so sincere in your spiritual efforts. Also, that you have the courage to share some part of this with all of us. We are all of us together explorers into the Self. The words of those that preceded us can serve as signposts. We can also offer one another what we are learning. We are Not two, Richard RamanaMaharshi, "lostnfoundation" <leenalton@h...> wrote: > Dear Viorica: > You wisely wrote again {snip}. > What is there to 'wait until'? > > OK: I will put plan A into action. > Firstly I will leave my wife so that I can put my attention 100 > percent on self inquiry. > This includes sitting meditation and walking meditation 14 or more > hours per day. > I will give up the TV, Radio, Telephone etc., and everything except > that which gives energy to do the practice. > I will take a vow of silence and only write on a pad to communicate > when necessary. I will cover all the mirrors and wear a blind fold > most of the time. > Said with "tongue in cheek" > p.s Please don't tell me attachments are only in the mind and it is > unnecessary to go into the forest and become a hermit. My elements > and Gunas are directing me. LOL. > Aloha, > I AM > > RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > > > Viorica, I am here to learn how to give up everything. My ego > says I > > > can do it now, but to wait until I finish my family obligations > so as > > > not to cause the same problems that I supposedly did in a previous > > > life, when I left my wife and son to become a monk. > > > > dear Alton, > > > > this 'wait until' caused much missing and frustration in my life; > > I felt intuitively that that was a great cause of my frustration > but > > because > > several times it proved to be the 'wise' thing to do , I failed to > admit it > > and dwelt on it; I don't know if I entirely eliminated this 'wait > until' > > from my life , > > but anyway it is acknowledged as the 'enemy' ; > > What is there to 'wait until'? Eckhart Tolle in his book says that > this is > > letting the mind jump in the future and obstructing our sence of > > being present now , something like that ; it is a game of the mind > > not to let us fully be , as we might suddenly discover it doesn't > exist > > and so it will have to vaporize completely and our self with it > either ; > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont think > > > though, that I will be able to learn how to give up giving up > > > everything. That might be necessary to get through the door of > the > > > Absolute. Some psychic came to our house and told me I have too > much > > > desire. > > > > It is not the first time when you mentioned this ; > > what I noticed is that what people say or think about me it > is right > > perhaps - not always - , in that very moment , hour,minute > of that > > very day ; desires,feelings,thoughts change continuosly or > even > > dissapear completely when we are aware of them as we are , > > otherwise we wouldn't be here . > > If somebody saw such a strong desire in you , it could have > been > > correct to speak about it at that time that it was observed , > > or it might have been his very own ; > > I think that this is a dead observation belonging to the past > that > > could be valid no more ; you know better , don't have to > say. > > > > > How about making rules but being able to change them if they are > not > > > working. > > > > When one makes rules to himself , I think it is a mind > building > > rules; > > I gave up to the Unknown ; I build no rules, no future > plans; > > I let it build, whatever comes; sometimes I am frightened, > > but this kind of giving up can not be taken back. > > > > > The most important thing in my opinion is to honor diversity. > > > > I think so too. Don't we honor it already by our > presence here > > ? > > > > We are given unique qualities and we > > > are in harmony with our elemental natures is we go with that flow. > > > > Aloha ! > > > > > Aloha, > > > Alton > > > > Aloha, > > viorica. > > > > RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > > > Viorica, I am here to learn how to give up everything. My ego > says I > > > can do it now, but to wait until I finish my family obligations > so as > > > not to cause the same problems that I supposedly did in a previous > > > life, when I left my wife and son to become a monk. > > > > dear Alton, > > > > this 'wait until' caused much missing and frustration in my life; > > I felt intuitively that that was a great cause of my frustration > but > > because > > several times it proved to be the 'wise' thing to do , I failed to > admit it > > and dwelt on it; I don't know if I entirely eliminated this 'wait > until' > > from my life , > > but anyway it is acknowledged as the 'enemy' ; > > What is there to 'wait until'? Eckhart Tolle in his book says that > this is > > letting the mind jump in the future and obstructing our sence of > > being present now , something like that ; it is a game of the mind > > not to let us fully be , as we might suddenly discover it doesn't > exist > > and so it will have to vaporize completely and our self with it > either ; > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont think > > > though, that I will be able to learn how to give up giving up > > > everything. That might be necessary to get through the door of > the > > > Absolute. Some psychic came to our house and told me I have too > much > > > desire. > > > > It is not the first time when you mentioned this ; > > what I noticed is that what people say or think about me it > is right > > perhaps - not always - , in that very moment , hour,minute > of that > > very day ; desires,feelings,thoughts change continuosly or > even > > dissapear completely when we are aware of them as we are , > > otherwise we wouldn't be here . > > If somebody saw such a strong desire in you , it could have > been > > correct to speak about it at that time that it was observed , > > or it might have been his very own ; > > I think that this is a dead observation belonging to the past > that > > could be valid no more ; you know better , don't have to > say. > > > > > How about making rules but being able to change them if they are > not > > > working. > > > > When one makes rules to himself , I think it is a mind > building > > rules; > > I gave up to the Unknown ; I build no rules, no future > plans; > > I let it build, whatever comes; sometimes I am frightened, > > but this kind of giving up can not be taken back. > > > > > The most important thing in my opinion is to honor diversity. > > > > I think so too. Don't we honor it already by our > presence here > > ? > > > > We are given unique qualities and we > > > are in harmony with our elemental natures is we go with that flow. > > > > Aloha ! > > > > > Aloha, > > > Alton > > > > Aloha, > > viorica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2002 Report Share Posted April 17, 2002 Dear Viorica: I agree whole heartedly with your post. You will never ever offend me and I appreciate loving feedback and will accept angry feedback. Yours I know for sure will always be loving. Aloha, I AM RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > dear Alton, > there are delays with messages again; > three messages of mine haven't reached the list yet for quite along time; > I wrote you in a previous message that I took your answer as a good joke; > I hope we are good friends by now and you will not take any offence > in my previous answer; > > I think Eckhart Tolle's book, The Power of Now , explains very well > this game of the mind jumping continuosly from past to future and > never stopping for a rest in the present. You said you were interested in it > , > so now after having read your answer, I think it would help you a lot ; > what I meant is not connected with putting a plan into action today and > not next month; it is connected with the mind game to always jump into > future > and dwelling on past and thus missing the present; > > It is not known to me that Ramana ever encouraged somebody to leave > home , on the contrary , at a similar question he answered to someone > who wanted to leave family ,wife and children, 'what harm did they do to > you?' > or to someone else ' what is the use of meditation if you don't serve the > child?' > > so I would ask - what is the use of meditation if you hurt another being ? > > aloha, > viorica. > > > > > Dear Viorica: > > You wisely wrote again {snip}. > > What is there to 'wait until'? > > > > OK: I will put plan A into action. > > Firstly I will leave my wife so that I can put my attention 100 > > percent on self inquiry. > > This includes sitting meditation and walking meditation 14 or more > > hours per day. > > I will give up the TV, Radio, Telephone etc., and everything except > > that which gives energy to do the practice. > > I will take a vow of silence and only write on a pad to communicate > > when necessary. I will cover all the mirrors and wear a blind fold > > most of the time. > > Said with "tongue in cheek" > > p.s Please don't tell me attachments are only in the mind and it is > > unnecessary to go into the forest and become a hermit. My elements > > and Gunas are directing me. LOL. > > Aloha, > > I AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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