Fear of death

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

as we have started to share our experiences and spiritual struggles here I come

in with my struggle:

it is fear of death, the fear of death of the ego, the fear to lose this

identification with the body-mind,

something which is very similar to what Major Chadwick reports in his

reminiscences:

 

"After I had been meditating in the presence of Bhagavan for some months, I

reached a certain stage

when I would be overcome by fear. I asked Bhagavan about this. I was assured by

some of those

present in the Hall at the time, not of course by Bhagavan, that this was all

wrong and quite absurd.

In fact they laughted at me for my foolishness. Bhagavan was not so amused. He

explained that it

was the ego that experienced the fear as it felt that it was gradually losing

its grip. It was, in fact,

dying, and naturally resented it. He asked me, 'To whom is the fear? It is all

due to the habit of

identifying the body with the Self. Repeated experience of separation from this

idea will make

one familiar with this state and fear will then automatically cease.'"

 

Sri Ramana once gave this beautiful reply to Chadwick and I take it also as a

reply for me.

I only wanted to share this, because there may be some here who have to deal

with a similar struggle.

 

In Bhagavan

Gabriele

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

thank you, Vicki, I liked to hear.

In HIM

Gabriele

 

RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote:

> dear Gabriele,

>

> Now that you mentioned fear of death I want to tell you about me.

> There was a time I was terrified by death and by my body being

buried.

> That was before. In my case there is a definite before and after

> discovering the teaching as it was not gradually but suddenly and

> totally. Thinking of this now , I realized that there is no fear of

> physical death in me and I don't know how and when it dissapeared.

> But there is much worry connected with this "who will replace me

> to my children? what shall they do ? I might not be the best mother

of all

> ( I spend so much time on Internet and my son began to be annoyed

by it)

> but what life will be there for them without their natural mother

around ? "

> So I am not so prepared to die without remorse.

>

> Besides , feelings, feelings, feelings .....they come , they take

me ,they

> go;

> and again, here they come,they take me, they go.

> Feelings are more of a problem to me than thoughts.

> And once a month they are terrible. I see all these and I am still

helpless;

>

> But I am more on a devotional mystical path then enquiring to whom

they

> appear,

> when they appear I talk with Ramana in my mind :

> "again ! again ! what are you doing to me ? when all this will be

over ?

> help ! please do something that this thing go away from me! "

> Sometimes I have the feeling that he is making fun of me and enjoys

all

> these.

> Once in the middle of such a self-rebellion I looked accidently

at his

> picture

> and I was a little shocked as he appeared to be laughing at me.

> "So you know I am helpless and you laugh at me?"

>

> well, that is a short part of my sadhana.

>

> vicki.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > Dear All,

> > as we have started to share our experiences and spiritual

struggles here I

> come in with my struggle:

> > it is fear of death, the fear of death of the ego, the fear to

lose this

> identification with the body-mind,

> > something which is very similar to what Major Chadwick reports in

his

> reminiscences:

> >

> > "After I had been meditating in the presence of Bhagavan for some

months,

> I reached a certain stage

> > when I would be overcome by fear. I asked Bhagavan about this. I

was

> assured by some of those

> > present in the Hall at the time, not of course by Bhagavan, that

this was

> all wrong and quite absurd.

> > In fact they laughted at me for my foolishness. Bhagavan was not

so

> amused. He explained that it

> > was the ego that experienced the fear as it felt that it was

gradually

> losing its grip. It was, in fact,

> > dying, and naturally resented it. He asked me, 'To whom is the

fear? It is

> all due to the habit of

> > identifying the body with the Self. Repeated experience of

separation from

> this idea will make

> > one familiar with this state and fear will then automatically

cease.'"

> >

> > Sri Ramana once gave this beautiful reply to Chadwick and I take

it also

> as a reply for me.

> > I only wanted to share this, because there may be some here who

have to

> deal with a similar struggle.

> >

> > In Bhagavan

> > Gabriele

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Gabriele:

Viorica was right, this list is coming alive.

Sometimes all that is necessary is to share one's consciousness and

when it is acknowledged, especially in a group, the problem is

alleviated. I was once quite ill on a retreat and when I shared it to

the group, it decided to leave. The power is in the attention.

 

Love,

Alton

 

RamanaMaharshi, "Gabriele Ebert" <g.ebert@g...> wrote:

> Dear All,

> as we have started to share our experiences and spiritual struggles

here I come in with my struggle:

> it is fear of death, the fear of death of the ego, the fear to lose

this identification with the body-mind,

> something which is very similar to what Major Chadwick reports in

his reminiscences:

>

> "After I had been meditating in the presence of Bhagavan for some

months, I reached a certain stage

> when I would be overcome by fear. I asked Bhagavan about this. I

was assured by some of those

> present in the Hall at the time, not of course by Bhagavan, that

this was all wrong and quite absurd.

> In fact they laughted at me for my foolishness. Bhagavan was not so

amused. He explained that it

> was the ego that experienced the fear as it felt that it was

gradually losing its grip. It was, in fact,

> dying, and naturally resented it. He asked me, 'To whom is the

fear? It is all due to the habit of

> identifying the body with the Self. Repeated experience of

separation from this idea will make

> one familiar with this state and fear will then automatically

cease.'"

>

> Sri Ramana once gave this beautiful reply to Chadwick and I take it

also as a reply for me.

> I only wanted to share this, because there may be some here who

have to deal with a similar struggle.

>

> In Bhagavan

> Gabriele

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

There is another way to consider all this: Time is fleeting, the

time to practice is precious. One does not want to wait and start

serious practice when directly facing death or the loss of basic

physical capabilities.

 

One of Sankara's "Requisites for Liberation" is Desire for Liberation.

 

Each of these fears and infirmaties can be used spiritually. Reflect

on the importance of your own liberation. Let this lead to increased

spiritual focus and practice. Thisa way you can use your own

impending death as a support to your practice.

 

We are Not two,

Richard

 

RamanaMaharshi, "lostnfoundation" <leenalton@h...> wrote:

> Dear Gabriele:

> Viorica was right, this list is coming alive.

> Sometimes all that is necessary is to share one's consciousness and

> when it is acknowledged, especially in a group, the problem is

> alleviated. I was once quite ill on a retreat and when I shared it

to

> the group, it decided to leave. The power is in the attention.

>

> Love,

> Alton

>

> RamanaMaharshi, "Gabriele Ebert" <g.ebert@g...> wrote:

> > Dear All,

> > as we have started to share our experiences and spiritual

struggles

> here I come in with my struggle:

> > it is fear of death, the fear of death of the ego, the fear to

lose

> this identification with the body-mind,

> > something which is very similar to what Major Chadwick reports in

> his reminiscences:

> >

> > "After I had been meditating in the presence of Bhagavan for some

> months, I reached a certain stage

> > when I would be overcome by fear. I asked Bhagavan about this. I

> was assured by some of those

> > present in the Hall at the time, not of course by Bhagavan, that

> this was all wrong and quite absurd.

> > In fact they laughted at me for my foolishness. Bhagavan was not

so

> amused. He explained that it

> > was the ego that experienced the fear as it felt that it was

> gradually losing its grip. It was, in fact,

> > dying, and naturally resented it. He asked me, 'To whom is the

> fear? It is all due to the habit of

> > identifying the body with the Self. Repeated experience of

> separation from this idea will make

> > one familiar with this state and fear will then automatically

> cease.'"

> >

> > Sri Ramana once gave this beautiful reply to Chadwick and I take

it

> also as a reply for me.

> > I only wanted to share this, because there may be some here who

> have to deal with a similar struggle.

> >

> > In Bhagavan

> > Gabriele

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

My turn on death.

Ever since childhood I had this morbid fear of death and death

thoughts consumed me. When my aunt had cancer I did not want to see

her for fear of making an error and saying something that would hurt

her.

After my grandmother died, I did not want to go into the living room

where her picture was hung.

 

Then with the Eastern Spiritual teachings most of my fear left,

except for the fact that if I died I would leave my mother and wife

to grieve. My mother had continuously told me that it is the worst

thing for a mother to have a child die before her. My wife lost her

first husband in a plane crash and was left with 4 small children. It

took her 20 years to get over that one. So, up until Ramana's and

Nisargadatta's teachings become one with my consciousness I still had

some qualms about leaving them.

 

However, even those fears have completely left.

It is my believe that It is necessary to have absolutely no fear of

death to return to the SELF permanently. I soon shall.

Aloha,

Alton

 

 

 

RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote:

> dear Gabriele,

>

> now I remembered more about how my fear of death began to dissapear,

> before reaching Ramana's teachings. I had a friend in childhood

who died

> and she made me suffer terribly.. I was 4-5 years old and I loved

her .

> When she died I was in another town and when I came back and heard

> she died I wanted to go and see her grave. First time my

grandmother took me

> to her grave. there were a lot of people around and I wanted to

be in

> silence

> and alone with her grave and her picture. But the people disturbed

me so I

> promised

> myself I'll come alone another time to be with her grave and think

of her.

> But I could never remember the place where her grave was.

> I looked for it and turned around and read all kind of names but I

never

> found her grave again. I was a child so I missed to discover where

the

> place was.

> On another try - the last one as a child - I was in such a dispair

> and felt such a pain in my stomach because I didn't find it and I

had to

> give up.

>

> A couple of years ago under certain circumstances all these came

back to my

> mind ,

> I remembered her so vividly and my love for her and the old pain

that I

> never found

> her grave and I never could be alone with her and my thoughts of

her.

> I shall not tell you all the details , only that some years ago I

did find

> her grave,

> on a travel back to my birth country . After this event , I came

back home

> and I began to feel her presence and to feel detached from her

grave.

> I was a little scared , and then whenever I tought

> of her grave it appeared empty. And I had a permanent feeling about

her

> grave :

> 'not there, not there, there is nothing inside there. That place is

empty.

> There is nothing to look for inside there. ' Then the feeling

expanded to

> all the cimitery

> 'the place is empty. completely emty. nothing to find there.'

> In time the feeling expanded even more , whenever I travelled and

saw a

> cimitery I felt it

> deserted and empty of anything.And even more - the feeling

expanded to all

> the cimitries

> in the world and felt them completely emty and deserted as ruin

fields.

> And that became permanent . There is nothing inside ! nothing to

look for

> in those places.

> And I began to feel her present with me . And I sensed that

whatever was a

> human being

> was not in those graves. So I knew I didn't need her grave any

more .

> She was not there. She was with me.

>

> I think now that this continouos expanding feeling about the

emptiness of

> cimitries

> vaporized my sense of identifying a human with his body - after

death.

> Then if a human is not his dead body then it is not his moving body.

> One day I realized that fear for my body beeing dead and burried

> disappeared.

>

> But as I see things now, in my case it was a certain process which

actually

> is no rule.

> It is feeling and sensing and a mental transformation and it took

some time.

> But no rule about it.

>

> What happens more is that thinking of my body embarasses me .

> Looking in a mirror gives me a sense of strangeness as if I don't

like

> what I see. Looking in a mirror is a good exercise for me to

> disidentify from the body because what I see is so strange and has

> nothing to do with me and I wonder ... who is that ? why so ?

> I am not that face. That I am not that face , I am not these hands,

> I am not this body - this I know. I take a look in the mirror

> and I know. Who am I ? I don't know.

> I don't want the answers from scriptures although I trust them..

> I know only that I am not what I see myself to be.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > > Dear All,

> > > as we have started to share our experiences and spiritual

struggles here

> I

> > come in with my struggle:

> > > it is fear of death, the fear of death of the ego, the fear to

lose this

> > identification with the body-mind,

> > > something which is very similar to what Major Chadwick reports

in his

> > reminiscences:

> > >

> > > "After I had been meditating in the presence of Bhagavan for

some

> months,

> > I reached a certain stage

> > > when I would be overcome by fear. I asked Bhagavan about this.

I was

> > assured by some of those

> > > present in the Hall at the time, not of course by Bhagavan,

that this

> was

> > all wrong and quite absurd.

> > > In fact they laughted at me for my foolishness. Bhagavan was

not so

> > amused. He explained that it

> > > was the ego that experienced the fear as it felt that it was

gradually

> > losing its grip. It was, in fact,

> > > dying, and naturally resented it. He asked me, 'To whom is the

fear? It

> is

> > all due to the habit of

> > > identifying the body with the Self. Repeated experience of

separation

> from

> > this idea will make

> > > one familiar with this state and fear will then automatically

cease.'"

> > >

> > > Sri Ramana once gave this beautiful reply to Chadwick and I

take it also

> > as a reply for me.

> > > I only wanted to share this, because there may be some here who

have to

> > deal with a similar struggle.

> > >

> > > In Bhagavan

> > > Gabriele

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dear v.

 

You have described so well some of the issues with misidentification

with the body. It is perfect that you want to see (and be) the

Knowledge for (and as) yourself. This is exactly what is necessary.

 

Ramana said that misidentification with the body is chief among the

issues of most seekers. Certainly it is my favorite

misidentification, and the focus of considerable (and ongoing)

inquiry.

 

This misidentification really goes through several "layers." Ancient

teachers like Sankara taught to disidentify from "gross to subtle."

The progression goes like this:

 

I am not the body

I am not the senses

I am not the life-energy (prajna)

I am not the mind

I am not the ego

I am

 

It is said, and I have found, that thoroughness is what is needed.

For me these are deep misidentifications, deeper than attachment to

the mind.

 

One assist that I have learned to use in this inquiry is to use the

other states (dreaming and deep sleep) to provide a deeper view of

the misidentification. For example, if I feel like I am this body in

the waking state, what about during a dream. In the dream I have a

body, and the body seems to have reality. But where does

the "reality" of the dream-body come from?

 

Likewise with the senses. I have started paying attention to senses

while dreaming. These senses have the same look, sound and "feeling"

as they do in the waking state. Again, where does that reality come

from? I have not yet noticed and remembered prajna in a dream.

 

All of this makes great fodder for practice. All of this points to

Who We Are.

 

We are Not two,

Richard

 

>What happens more is that thinking of my body embarasses me .

Looking in a mirror gives me a sense of strangeness as if I don't

like what I see. Looking in a mirror is a good exercise for me to

disidentify from the body because what I see is so strange and has

nothing to do with me and I wonder ... who is that ? why so ?I am not

that face. That I am not that face , I am not these hands,I am not

this body - this I know. I take a look in the mirror and I know. Who

am I ? I don't know. I don't want the answers from scriptures

although I trust them..I know only that I am not what I see myself to

be.<

[Guest guest]

Dear v.

 

Ah, the artist and the craftsman. I have known others who were

blessed with gifts and talents. You certainly show these.

 

As for this one, the thoroughness is present. Mostly my progress

comes just a bit at a time (the bits do add up). Some I have seen

take great leaping movements. I am blessed with realized teachers, I

hear the deepest truth again and again, and gradually it opens within

me.

 

I practice. What else is there? What other goal matters?

 

In terms of the spiritual experience, this is based on one's own Self-

knowledge. There are many ways to come to that knowledge. It is the

Knowledge that is important. You have been able to come by it in

great leaps, I in tiny and gradual steps (perhaps). But one Truth,

one Knowledge.

 

It is wonderful that you have lost the world. Closely tied to the

world is body/mind and ego. When these are gone, there is only

Knowledge or Who You Are.

 

 

We are Not two,

Richard

 

dear Richard ,

 

it is much thoroughnes in your practice as I noticed.

 

as I said in my case things happen and take me with them

and in the middle of these happenings my feeling and sensing

suffer a transformation ; than to me it is very clearly that

things happens and they take over and I do nothing.

This is why I can't make any plans for a serious self-enquiring

practice as you do , because in the course of the events

of my life I lost control so I don't make plans.

 

I see now that actually same results that you have by

practicing disidentification with the gross body and subtle

body come to me some other way which is not the same as

yours but events of life push me towards them to feel them.

 

For example - about dreams and subtle bodies - Castaneda's

books effect on my mind was that altered to me the sense

of the reality of the gross world drastically and brought

the reality of the dream worlds on the same plane as

the daily perceived world. He altered to me forever the

sense of reality of the world in a way that I can't explain .

I still burn sometimes because of feelings but the

sense of reality of the world is gone forever even if I am nervous

when somebody hits my car.

So same effects that might come to you through the practice you

do they come to me in a different way .

 

I can say I lost the world.

That is why so many things of the world mean nothing -

some people put three Ph.D before their names and I think

'oh my God poor man' , some people take making money and richness so

seriously

that in the beginning they made me feel sick in my stomach ,

or put themselves on a scale of values above others which caused same

feelings.

I had problems in the past with anger because of such people

who were putting themselves above others and eventually

were teaching spirituality to others. All this is nothing . Nothing .

All this is absurd . What they think of themselves is as absurd as my

anger.

But I stay away from them because people's thinking with feelings of

superiority

above others has nothing to do with mine. So my anger is gone but

there is

no bridge

for comunication. Any character in the world is not different from

another.

So my sense of differentiating people by worldly criteria is dead .

 

well , a little late ,

good night everybody ,

 

v.

[Guest guest]

Dear Vicki,

thank you for all your rich sharings.

 

What is happening here to me has to do with the process of self-

enquiry.

Fear of death - the fear to lose the identification with the body-

mind, when the mind loses its grip and struggles not to lose it, is

something many seekers have to face at a certain point. Sri Ramana

gives a very clear explanation about what is happening in his answer

to Chadwick and also how to deal with: "He explained that it

was the ego that experienced the fear as it felt that it was

gradually losing its grip. It was, in fact, dying, and naturally

resented it. He asked me, 'To whom is the fear? It is all due to the

habit of identifying the body with the Self. Repeated experience of

separation from this idea will make one familiar with this state and

fear will then automatically cease.'"

 

For me this answer of Ramana to Chadwick is a great consolation and

shows very clear the way. This I wanted to share here for those who

might be in a similar situation.

You say very clear it must be faced, accepted, sensed, watched, yes,

and then I ask: wherefrom does this fear arise? To whom is this fear?

It is only natural that the ego resists, that it struggles in this

process.

 

In HIM

Gabriele

 

 

> I was thinking about your fear of death ;

> another method from my experience would be :

> I think that it has to be lived ,

> faced , accepted , sensed ,watched, then it will free you.

> If you are afraid you could ask a friend to be with

> you in another room maybe, when you are meditating.

> That is what I would do in such a case.

>

> vicki.

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

I observe that when facing ideas like death that it is usually

approached from the body/mind/ego viewpoint. Ramana taught that who

we are is beyond life or death, that who we are is birthless and not

created.

 

The power of inquiry is that we can turn our minds inward to our

deathless Being.

 

I find I have less interest in even my own stories. What is

facinating is to look past all the known to the Knower.

 

We are Not two,

Richard

[Guest guest]

Some people need to express their fears and have them acknowledged as

part of their cleaning. I rembember Jack Cornfeld saying that some

Westerners needed other forms of therapy to progress.

 

Aloha,

Alton

 

RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote:

> dear Richard ,

>

>

> > Dear All,

> >

> > I observe that when facing ideas like death that it is usually

> > approached from the body/mind/ego viewpoint.

>

> you are right ; it seems to me only very correct to approach

anything

> from where

> we stand ; correct to oneself and correct to all our companions.

>

>

>

> > Ramana taught that who

> > we are is beyond life or death, that who we are is birthless and

not

> > created.

>

> Yes , Richard ;

> Nisargadatta said that if one cuts down his head he is and that

one does

> nothing to him.

> I know what he is saying but I know that if somebody cuts down

> my head now I'll have to come back again ;

> Until full Self awareness is there ,

> I can't say that one doesn't do anything to me by cutting down

my head

> although I know and feel what the meaning of not doing anything

to me

> is.

> So not having full awarenes of my Being I speak only from where

> I stay *now* not from the Self standpoint at the present

moment.

>

>

>

> > The power of inquiry is that we can turn our minds inward to our

> > deathless Being.

>

> It is so.

>

> >

> > I find I have less interest in even my own stories. What is

> > facinating is to look past all the known to the Knower.

>

>

> I think this is a very good thing to have no interest in

one's

> stories.

> I have no interest in mine. I forgot them until the

question

> appeared

> on the list and members expressed their struggles on

the path

> which is a very good thing to do. I never talked

anything about

> my stories

> on this list or on any other before , but I don't mind

sharing

> what I feel

> I can share if the subject comes up. I welcome

Gabriele's

> raising the subject;

> As I said in a previous letter , I know I am not my

body , not

> from Ramana

> teachings , but *I know*. Ramana's teachings are my map

and use

> it

> accordingly. Thinking of fear of physical death as the

subject

> was raised

> I realized it doesn't exist. But who am I?

> I repeat what I have already said I do not want

scriptures answer

> and not Ramana's answer although I trust it fully.

> When that full Self awareness will be there , I'll let

you

> everybody know.

> But right now I don't want my head cut off.

>

> >

> > We are Not two,

> > Richard

>

> We are not our bodies,

> that is all I can say,

> v.

[Guest guest]

Yes, there may be different ways. In any case one has to face and

overcome it. Mostly fear of death comes when someone dies who we love

or we are bodily sick and feel that this body will die one day.

Sometimes in comes also unexpectedly as a kind of a nightmare.

For those who practice atma vichara it can come in the process of

this enquiry.

Interesting is also that Sri Ramana before entering the state of

Jnana also was overcome by fear of death. There was no outer reason

that he should have this fear. He was in his normal health. What he

did is very interesting. He did not go out asking friends or someone

else for help. He did not even think of that. In that case no friends

are of any help. You are alone with that and only turning inwards,

facing it and asking what is happening, to whom is this fear? Who is

going to die? gives the solution. I see this more and more clear.

There is no help outside. Only atma vichara or surrender can solve

it.

In HIM

Gabriele

 

RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote:

> dear Gabriele,

>

> forgot to say something.

>

> there is a difference as I see - you recognized the fear ,

> acknowledged it and want to deal with it consciously.

> I recognized it after it long knocked at my door and

> yet I didn't mean to deal with it consciously.

> So the fear itself dealt with me.

>

> Thinking back at that terrible fear that came on me

> by itself and gave me no choice at all ,

> and remembering its intensity , I wonder whether

> I would have been able to deal with it consciously.

> I trust the Unmanifested knows better to deal

> with whatever is to be solved with me in this life,

> so I let it guide and do whatever it has to do with me;

>

> Your way is to face fear and deal with it consciously ;

> my way is 'take me and do with me whatever is to be done' ;

> that is why I am sometimes scared because

> I never know what comes next;

>

> ~~~ vicki.

[Guest guest]

I Hope that I dont appear uncaring, but when someone dies I see it as

a blessing. I do feel sorry for the grieving, who are left behind

though.

Namaste,

Alton

 

 

RamanaMaharshi, "gabriele_ebert" <g.ebert@g...> wrote:

> Yes, there may be different ways. In any case one has to face and

> overcome it. Mostly fear of death comes when someone dies who we

love

> or we are bodily sick and feel that this body will die one day.

> Sometimes in comes also unexpectedly as a kind of a nightmare.

> For those who practice atma vichara it can come in the process of

> this enquiry.

> Interesting is also that Sri Ramana before entering the state of

> Jnana also was overcome by fear of death. There was no outer reason

> that he should have this fear. He was in his normal health. What he

> did is very interesting. He did not go out asking friends or

someone

> else for help. He did not even think of that. In that case no

friends

> are of any help. You are alone with that and only turning inwards,

> facing it and asking what is happening, to whom is this fear? Who

is

> going to die? gives the solution. I see this more and more clear.

> There is no help outside. Only atma vichara or surrender can solve

> it.

> In HIM

> Gabriele

>

> RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote:

> > dear Gabriele,

> >

> > forgot to say something.

> >

> > there is a difference as I see - you recognized the fear ,

> > acknowledged it and want to deal with it consciously.

> > I recognized it after it long knocked at my door and

> > yet I didn't mean to deal with it consciously.

> > So the fear itself dealt with me.

> >

> > Thinking back at that terrible fear that came on me

> > by itself and gave me no choice at all ,

> > and remembering its intensity , I wonder whether

> > I would have been able to deal with it consciously.

> > I trust the Unmanifested knows better to deal

> > with whatever is to be solved with me in this life,

> > so I let it guide and do whatever it has to do with me;

> >

> > Your way is to face fear and deal with it consciously ;

> > my way is 'take me and do with me whatever is to be done' ;

> > that is why I am sometimes scared because

> > I never know what comes next;

> >

> > ~~~ vicki.

[Guest guest]

Dear Gabriel

Fear of death is an odd thing....Since there is know one to die.Only thought

itself is the source of its own fear.Live in the wareness of your true

nature.

Peace to you

Peter

[Guest guest]

Thank you again for all your sharings, dear Vicki. I see in them that

you have already gained fearlessness by surrender. So you are very

blessed! Also you, Richard and Alton, you are also blessed. Indeed

the dead are happy, as Bhagavan once said. Losing the identification

with the body-mind must be a great release.

In HIM

Gabriele

 

RamanaMaharshi, viorica weissman <vioricail> wrote:

> dear companions,

>

> I'll take a little break from dialogue

> and shall be back posting;

> I have a hard week at work and can't afford the time;

> posting quotes takes less time and I can

> do that without problems;

>

> one more thing I want to say - I noticed I am not

> able to share insights unless they are old enough

> and matter no more.

>

> we are not our bodies,

> v.

=====

>

>

>

>

> Health - your guide to health and wellness

> http://health.

[Guest guest]

Dear Gabriel,

 

Thank you for reminding this newgroup about Ramana's own example.

When faced with the fear of death, he turned to inquiry. His inquiry

brought him to the Knowledge of Being.

 

That Knowledge was the basis for his life of teaching. That

Knowledge is the reason he is so revered. What better example?

 

We are Not two

Richard

RamanaMaharshi, "_ebert" <g.ebert@g...> wrote:

snip

> Interesting is also that Sri Ramana before entering the state of

> Jnana also was overcome by fear of death. There was no outer reason

> that he should have this fear. He was in his normal health. What he

> did is very interesting. He did not go out asking friends or

someone

> else for help. He did not even think of that. In that case no

friends

> are of any help. You are alone with that and only turning inwards,

> facing it and asking what is happening, to whom is this fear? Who

is

> going to die? gives the solution. I see this more and more clear.

> There is no help outside. Only atma vichara or surrender can solve

> it.

> In HIM

> Gabriele

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Miles, that is helpful.

In HIM

Gabriele

 

RamanaMaharshi, Miles Wright <ramana.bhakta@v...> wrote:

> A suggestion:

>

>

> antakAle ca mAmeva smaranmuktvA kalevaram /

> yah prayAti sa madbhAvam yAti nAstyatra saMSayah //

>

> yaM yaM vApi smaranbhAvaM tyajatyante kalevaram /

> taM tamevaiti kaunteya sadA tadbhAvabhAvitah //

>

>

>

> 'And the one, who, at the time of death, having abandoned the body,

> remembers Me alone, that one attains the True Nature of 'I'; in

this there

> is no doubt.'

>

> 'Whatever mental state one remembers, at the end, when one leaves

the body,

> to that alone one goes, O Son of Kunti, (because of)

ever 'thinking' of that

> state.'

>

> (Bhagavad Gita, 8; 5,6)

>

>

> This is the reason Self Enquiry 'practice' is so important. At the

time of

> death, the ego throws up all the reasons it can to show its (small)

> self-importance. It reflects on its life... desperate to sustain

that life.

> It bemoans the loss of its family and friends. It screams that this

cannot

> be happening to one so awfully important. It remembers its

possessions. It

> dwells on property and business. All it is... is these random

thoughts. All

> this seems like it takes an age...but happens in the blink of an

eye.

> EGO PANICS.

> This is the time to catch it. If Self Enquiry has been rehearsed,

in the

> 'strong' mind... it cuts in, finding ego weak and vulnerable, and

eradicates

> all trace of ego... there and then. Of this there is absolutely no

doubt.

> There is absolutely no doubt.

>

>

> Ever Yours in Sri Bhagavan,

> Miles

[Guest guest]

Going through all these emails and replies, the

inference is that a fear of death is an important

factor in the quest for self-realization. Somehow,

though, inside there is no thought of fear when the

thought of death comes. Am I too ignorant to even feel

the fear? Is it natural for the fear to be there for

the un-realized ones? Am I missing any important link

in my quest? Sad and sorrowful thoughts envelop me

only in case of unnatural deaths to others such as

communal riots and murders. Otherwise, I am unmoved.

And the disturbing thought is if I cannot even fear

death the way Ramana did, how can I begin my journey

(the way He began His)?

 

I know this question could be very amateurish, but it

concerns me nonetheless.

 

Grateful to the Kind One,

 

Raghu

 

--- lostnfoundation <leenalton wrote:

> I Hope that I dont appear uncaring, but when someone

> dies I see it as

> a blessing. I do feel sorry for the grieving, who

> are left behind

> though.

> Namaste,

> Alton

>

>

 

 

 

=====

Raghu Sankaran

(718)-460-5666

Flushing, Queens

New York NY 11355

 

 

 

Health - your guide to health and wellness

http://health.

[Guest guest]

Dear Raghu:

You wrote, "I know this question could be very amateurish, but it

concerns me nonetheless."

 

If your question is amateurish, then so are all our questions

amatuerish. So let us say that only amateurs ask quesions, so that

they may become pros. I will let some more knowledgeable members

answer your question.

Namate,

Alton

 

RamanaMaharshi, Raghu Sankaran <raghunathans> wrote:

> Going through all these emails and replies, the

> inference is that a fear of death is an important

> factor in the quest for self-realization. Somehow,

> though, inside there is no thought of fear when the

> thought of death comes. Am I too ignorant to even feel

> the fear? Is it natural for the fear to be there for

> the un-realized ones? Am I missing any important link

> in my quest? Sad and sorrowful thoughts envelop me

> only in case of unnatural deaths to others such as

> communal riots and murders. Otherwise, I am unmoved.

> And the disturbing thought is if I cannot even fear

> death the way Ramana did, how can I begin my journey

> (the way He began His)?

>

> I know this question could be very amateurish, but it

> concerns me nonetheless.

>

> Grateful to the Kind One,

>

> Raghu

>

> --- lostnfoundation <leenalton@h...> wrote:

> > I Hope that I dont appear uncaring, but when someone

> > dies I see it as

> > a blessing. I do feel sorry for the grieving, who

> > are left behind

> > though.

> > Namaste,

> > Alton

> >

> >

>

>

>

> =====

> Raghu Sankaran

> (718)-460-5666

> Flushing, Queens

> New York NY 11355

>

>

>

> Health - your guide to health and wellness

> http://health.

[Guest guest]

I withdraw my question. It was poorly worded, and

wasn't what I wanted to convey.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

--- Raghu Sankaran <raghunathans wrote:

> Going through all these emails and replies, the

> inference is that a fear of death is an important

> factor in the quest for self-realization. Somehow,

> though, inside there is no thought of fear when the

> thought of death comes. Am I too ignorant to even

> feel

> the fear? Is it natural for the fear to be there for

> the un-realized ones? Am I missing any important

> link

> in my quest? Sad and sorrowful thoughts envelop me

> only in case of unnatural deaths to others such as

> communal riots and murders. Otherwise, I am unmoved.

> And the disturbing thought is if I cannot even fear

> death the way Ramana did, how can I begin my journey

> (the way He began His)?

>

> I know this question could be very amateurish, but

> it

> concerns me nonetheless.

>

> Grateful to the Kind One,

>

> Raghu

>

> --- lostnfoundation <leenalton wrote:

> > I Hope that I dont appear uncaring, but when

> someone

> > dies I see it as

> > a blessing. I do feel sorry for the grieving, who

> > are left behind

> > though.

> > Namaste,

> > Alton

> >

> >

>

>

>

> =====

> Raghu Sankaran

> (718)-460-5666

> Flushing, Queens

> New York NY 11355

>

>

>

> Health - your guide to health and wellness

> http://health.

>

 

 

=====

Raghu Sankaran

(718)-460-5666

Flushing, Queens

New York NY 11355

 

 

 

Health - your guide to health and wellness

http://health.

[Guest guest]

Dear v.

 

A wonderful story about gaining inner knowledge. This kind of

knowledge leads to conviction, which is an important spiritual

requisite for Realization.

 

I was from a family where story telling was highly valued. Childhood

memories of a grandfather telling stories about Texas history are

among my fond memories of childhood. I used to say that what

mattered was not what happened, but rather what story you could tell

about it.

 

As my inquiry deepened, I remembered that Buddha had talked about the

mind's propensity for stories. I also saw that each of us has our

stories, and that the ego-I just happens to be the star of every

story. Too much ego-I for me.

 

After this, my own interest in my own story has been declining. Maybe

someday there will be no story. Won't that be grand!

 

We are Not two,

Richard

 

 

RamanaMaharshi, "vioricail" <vioricail> wrote:

> dear companions,

>

> I remembered another experience(I am sorry , Richard!)

>

> When I was about 17 years old I lived an earthquake ,

> Bucharest,Romania. Many buildings collapsed and

> ours was waving and raging as a ship in the middle

> of a storm.

> When I realized I'll really die I suddenly became so calm,

> so peaceful, so totally accepting it ; there was no fear,

> no panic, no regret , only a peace of a dimension

> that is impossible to describe .

>

> So I understood then that when a human really dies,

> he becomes peaceful.

>

> v.

[Guest guest]

Beloved Friend

thank you for your reply.I dont write much ,but i do understand the words

of our Guru.,and will send comments from time to time.

best regards

peter

[Guest guest]

Dear Richard wrote:

"Maybe someday there will be no story"

 

Have you asked, "who is it that desires that someday there will be no

story? Is that just another thought object that hinders further

deepening? I will accept any reply without challenge.

Namaste,

Alton

 

 

 

 

-- In RamanaMaharshi, "richard_clarke95125" <r_clarke@i...>

wrote:

> Dear v.

>

> A wonderful story about gaining inner knowledge. This kind of

> knowledge leads to conviction, which is an important spiritual

> requisite for Realization.

>

> I was from a family where story telling was highly valued.

Childhood

> memories of a grandfather telling stories about Texas history are

> among my fond memories of childhood. I used to say that what

> mattered was not what happened, but rather what story you could

tell

> about it.

>

> As my inquiry deepened, I remembered that Buddha had talked about

the

> mind's propensity for stories. I also saw that each of us has our

> stories, and that the ego-I just happens to be the star of every

> story. Too much ego-I for me.

>

> After this, my own interest in my own story has been declining.

Maybe

> someday there will be no story. Won't that be grand!

>

> We are Not two,

> Richard

>

>

> RamanaMaharshi, "vioricail" <vioricail> wrote:

> > dear companions,

> >

> > I remembered another experience(I am sorry , Richard!)

> >

> > When I was about 17 years old I lived an earthquake ,

> > Bucharest,Romania. Many buildings collapsed and

> > ours was waving and raging as a ship in the middle

> > of a storm.

> > When I realized I'll really die I suddenly became so calm,

> > so peaceful, so totally accepting it ; there was no fear,

> > no panic, no regret , only a peace of a dimension

> > that is impossible to describe .

> >

> > So I understood then that when a human really dies,

> > he becomes peaceful.

> >

> > v.

[Guest guest]

Deal Alton,

 

Thanks for the comment. Of course it is appropriate. And I have

asked "Who?" many times. Slowly, slowly the deep answers quiet this

mind. There is still this tendenancy to see myself as the doer.

This is another area I have used for much inquiry. And more is

needed.

 

It is not just you that "busts my chops" about this, and points me

inside. So does None. Thank you.

 

We are Not two,

Richard

 

 

RamanaMaharshi, "lostnfoundation" <leenalton@h...> wrote:

> Dear Richard wrote:

> "Maybe someday there will be no story"

>

> Have you asked, "who is it that desires that someday there will be

no

> story? Is that just another thought object that hinders further

> deepening? I will accept any reply without challenge.

> Namaste,

> Alton

[Guest guest]

Dear v.

 

Good night.

 

Right now the concern is whether or not I listen to these stories,

and identify with the "I" that stars in the story.

 

As for grandkids ... and others in our loving families, I wonder

sometimes what is best. I feel that what is best is to show the

love, and to just be open to what flows from there. I still have

stories to tell. (My kids have heard most of them already.) I also

feel that communicating in a way that is true to my highest knowledge

is called for.

 

(I have noticed that some old friendships where the content of the

relationship was swapping stores have kind of fallen by the way-

side. I am just not interested in this kind of relationship

anymore. I am interested in those where we help one another see who

we are, and help one another get spiritually deeper. Like those we

have in this newsgroup. )

 

(I have noticed that one issue that our spiritual teachers have to

deal with is providing encouragement without feeding our egos. I

wonder how this applies to those we are in loving realtionships

with? I know little more than to try to say what is real to me, and

to show the love.)

 

I love you v. Who we are is this Love. That is all. (it has other

aspects, viz, Being-Consciousness-Bliss. These are just other names

for the same existance). One of my first deep spiritual experiences

was with the woman who introduced me to SAT. She told me, that some

time when I am feeling loving feeling for her, to ask myself, "Where

does this love come from?" As a good boy, I followed her

instructions, and this took me to what was then the deepest spiritual

experience of my life.

 

We are Not two.

Richard

 

RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote:

> dear Richard,

>

> wasn't Ramana a wonderful story teller ?

>

> a grandfather telling stories? what a delight !

>

> don't you deprive your grand children of such delights

> because of that self-enquiry !

> your grandfather didn't do this to you !

>

>

>

> good night,

> love you Richard,

>

> v.