Guest guest Posted May 4, 2002 Report Share Posted May 4, 2002 Hi Everyone: The following is a small essay I offer in the spirit of discussion from my studies of Raja Yoga and Advaita Vedanta. Thinking and knowing are difficult to distinguish in the jumble of the mind. Patanjali, the Father of Raja Yoga, who describes the mind in great detail, lists five types of fluctuations of consciousness; sleeping, conceptualization, misconception, valid cognition, and memory. They may be afflicted or not. Constrained fluctuation of the consciousness is meditation. Any thought must of necessity be one of these types of fluctuation or vritti. Knowing is none of them. In fact it could be said that each one of these types of thought is a different type of knowing, making knowing in this sense the same as consciousness. All thinking is dependent on the first thought which is established in the mind as the thinker. The thinker is the first thought, Aham Vritti, which is a misconception, or error in cognition. The Aham Vritti is also the last thought and when it dissolves, thought dissolves. Since it is a vritti itself, or fluctuation of the consciousness, it is of the mind. When held before the consciousness it's nature is discovered, as is its tenacity. Discriminating between thought and knowing allows recognition of when thinking is halted. Thinking stops when the "I am" or aham vritti is held before the mind. Knowing is not stopped. The chain of thoughts continues in a seemingly ceaseless fashion. When it stops, there is a space where the "I am" appears before another chain of thought begins. This is the space between thoughts. Whenever thinking stops, the "I am" appears and when the "I am" appears, thoughts stop. Knowing does not stop. Peace is the cessation of thought. At first it is found in the space between thoughts, or however long the "I am" is held before the mind uninterruptedly. Love Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2002 Report Share Posted May 4, 2002 Dear Bobby: Interesting post. Wondering how Pantanjali defines misconception and valid cognition. Thanks in advance. Love, Alton RamanaMaharshi, "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > Hi Everyone: > > The following is a small essay I offer in the spirit of discussion > from my studies of Raja Yoga and Advaita Vedanta. > > Thinking and knowing are difficult to distinguish in the jumble of > the mind. > > Patanjali, the Father of Raja Yoga, who describes the mind in great > detail, lists five types of fluctuations of consciousness; sleeping, > conceptualization, misconception, valid cognition, and memory. They > may be afflicted or not. Constrained fluctuation of the > consciousness is meditation. > > Any thought must of necessity be one of these types of fluctuation or > vritti. Knowing is none of them. In fact it could be said that each > one of these types of thought is a different type of knowing, making > knowing in this sense the same as consciousness. > > All thinking is dependent on the first thought which is established > in the mind as the thinker. The thinker is the first thought, Aham > Vritti, which is a misconception, or error in cognition. The Aham > Vritti is also the last thought and when it dissolves, thought > dissolves. Since it is a vritti itself, or fluctuation of the > consciousness, it is of the mind. When held before the consciousness > it's nature is discovered, as is its tenacity. > > Discriminating between thought and knowing allows recognition of when > thinking is halted. Thinking stops when the "I am" or aham vritti is > held before the mind. Knowing is not stopped. > > The chain of thoughts continues in a seemingly ceaseless fashion. > When it stops, there is a space where the "I am" appears before > another chain of thought begins. This is the space between thoughts. > Whenever thinking stops, the "I am" appears and when the "I am" > appears, thoughts stop. Knowing does not stop. > > Peace is the cessation of thought. At first it is found in the space > between thoughts, or however long the "I am" is held before the mind > uninterruptedly. > > Love > Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2002 Report Share Posted May 4, 2002 Hi Alton: I find everything about Patanjali interesting. The idea one can describe the mind is fascinating. About your question: Sutra I:8- Misconception is erroneous knowledge not based on the [actual] paaearance of that [which is the underlying object]. -Feuerstein Sutra 1:8- Indiscrimination is false knowledge not based on the real nature [of an object]. -Vivekananda Sutra I:7- Valid cognition [is based on ] perception, inference and testimony. -Feurerstein Sutra I:7- Direct perception, inference, and competent evidence constitute right knowledge, or proof. -Vivekananda There are many translations and the differences are sometimes monumental. Feuerstein is my favorite for now. I am aware many people believe that being valid or wrong is a personal event and it is impossibe to define them. Is this what you were referring to in your question? Yours truly Bobby G. RamanaMaharshi, "lostnfoundation" <leenalton@h...> wrote: > Dear Bobby: > Interesting post. > Wondering how Pantanjali defines misconception and valid cognition. > Thanks in advance. > > Love, > Alton > > > > RamanaMaharshi, "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone: > > > > The following is a small essay I offer in the spirit of discussion > > from my studies of Raja Yoga and Advaita Vedanta. > > > > Thinking and knowing are difficult to distinguish in the jumble of > > the mind. > > > > Patanjali, the Father of Raja Yoga, who describes the mind in great > > detail, lists five types of fluctuations of consciousness; > sleeping, > > conceptualization, misconception, valid cognition, and memory. They > > may be afflicted or not. Constrained fluctuation of the > > consciousness is meditation. > > > > Any thought must of necessity be one of these types of fluctuation > or > > vritti. Knowing is none of them. In fact it could be said that > each > > one of these types of thought is a different type of knowing, > making > > knowing in this sense the same as consciousness. > > > > All thinking is dependent on the first thought which is established > > in the mind as the thinker. The thinker is the first thought, Aham > > Vritti, which is a misconception, or error in cognition. The Aham > > Vritti is also the last thought and when it dissolves, thought > > dissolves. Since it is a vritti itself, or fluctuation of the > > consciousness, it is of the mind. When held before the > consciousness > > it's nature is discovered, as is its tenacity. > > > > Discriminating between thought and knowing allows recognition of > when > > thinking is halted. Thinking stops when the "I am" or aham vritti > is > > held before the mind. Knowing is not stopped. > > > > The chain of thoughts continues in a seemingly ceaseless fashion. > > When it stops, there is a space where the "I am" appears before > > another chain of thought begins. This is the space between > thoughts. > > Whenever thinking stops, the "I am" appears and when the "I am" > > appears, thoughts stop. Knowing does not stop. > > > > Peace is the cessation of thought. At first it is found in the > space > > between thoughts, or however long the "I am" is held before the > mind > > uninterruptedly. > > > > Love > > Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2002 Report Share Posted May 5, 2002 Hi Bobby: You wrote: "I am aware many people believe that being valid or wrong is a personal event and it is impossible to define them. Is this what you were referring to in your question? " That was somewhere in the back of my mind when I asked for clarification. I guess I still will hold to the belief that misconceptions depend on the internal detail conditioning history unique to each individual and that many conflicts arise because of rigid views on the any subject. Also apologies to the group for posting twice "searching for awareness". I had one of those memory lapses. Love, Alton Yours truly Bobby G. RamanaMaharshi, "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > Hi Alton: > > I find everything about Patanjali interesting. The idea one can > describe the mind is fascinating. > > About your question: > Sutra I:8- Misconception is erroneous knowledge not based on the > [actual] paaearance of that [which is the underlying object]. > -Feuerstein > > Sutra 1:8- Indiscrimination is false knowledge not based on the real > nature [of an object]. > -Vivekananda > > Sutra I:7- Valid cognition [is based on ] perception, inference and > testimony. > -Feurerstein > > Sutra I:7- Direct perception, inference, and competent evidence > constitute right knowledge, or proof. > -Vivekananda > > There are many translations and the differences are sometimes > monumental. Feuerstein is my favorite for now. > > I am aware many people believe that being valid or wrong is a > personal event and it is impossibe to define them. Is this what you > were referring to in your question? > > Yours truly > Bobby G. > > > RamanaMaharshi, "lostnfoundation" <leenalton@h...> wrote: > > Dear Bobby: > > Interesting post. > > Wondering how Pantanjali defines misconception and valid cognition. > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Love, > > Alton > > > > > > > > RamanaMaharshi, "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > > > Hi Everyone: > > > > > > The following is a small essay I offer in the spirit of > discussion > > > from my studies of Raja Yoga and Advaita Vedanta. > > > > > > Thinking and knowing are difficult to distinguish in the jumble > of > > > the mind. > > > > > > Patanjali, the Father of Raja Yoga, who describes the mind in > great > > > detail, lists five types of fluctuations of consciousness; > > sleeping, > > > conceptualization, misconception, valid cognition, and memory. > They > > > may be afflicted or not. Constrained fluctuation of the > > > consciousness is meditation. > > > > > > Any thought must of necessity be one of these types of > fluctuation > > or > > > vritti. Knowing is none of them. In fact it could be said that > > each > > > one of these types of thought is a different type of knowing, > > making > > > knowing in this sense the same as consciousness. > > > > > > All thinking is dependent on the first thought which is > established > > > in the mind as the thinker. The thinker is the first thought, > Aham > > > Vritti, which is a misconception, or error in cognition. The Aham > > > Vritti is also the last thought and when it dissolves, thought > > > dissolves. Since it is a vritti itself, or fluctuation of the > > > consciousness, it is of the mind. When held before the > > consciousness > > > it's nature is discovered, as is its tenacity. > > > > > > Discriminating between thought and knowing allows recognition of > > when > > > thinking is halted. Thinking stops when the "I am" or aham vritti > > is > > > held before the mind. Knowing is not stopped. > > > > > > The chain of thoughts continues in a seemingly ceaseless > fashion. > > > When it stops, there is a space where the "I am" appears before > > > another chain of thought begins. This is the space between > > thoughts. > > > Whenever thinking stops, the "I am" appears and when the "I am" > > > appears, thoughts stop. Knowing does not stop. > > > > > > Peace is the cessation of thought. At first it is found in the > > space > > > between thoughts, or however long the "I am" is held before the > > mind > > > uninterruptedly. > > > > > > Love > > > Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2002 Report Share Posted May 5, 2002 Dear Alton: You wrote: >That was somewhere in the back of my mind when I asked for clarification. I guess I still will hold to the belief that misconceptions depend on the internal detail conditioning history unique to each individual and that many conflicts arise because of rigid views on the any subject.< Thank you Alton for your reply. I had not considered the sutras in that way before. I don't think you are wrong about internal conditioning but misconception also includes false logic and mistakes. I apologize for seeming rigid in my views. Just as Hatha Yoga helps a person maintain a healthy body through physical asanas, Raja Yoga is provided to help maintain a healthy mind with mental asanas. The position one takes on mental issues may conflict with the position the same person takes on other issues. Having a clear mind with few obstructions is the objective. Thank you again for replying Love Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2002 Report Share Posted May 5, 2002 Dear Bobby. G I dont want to give a misconception that all paths will not work equally as well for the seeker that chooses that path, because I truly believe that the path one is on is the right one for that person. It is mostly earnestness that leads to success. Ramana's concept of the Self is just so simple and clear to me so that is why I am devoted to his teachings. Aloha, Alton RamanaMaharshi, "texasbg2000" <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > > > Dear Alton: > > You wrote: > >That was somewhere in the back of my mind when I asked for > clarification. I guess I still will hold to the belief that > misconceptions depend on the internal detail conditioning history > unique to each individual and that many conflicts arise because of > rigid views on the any subject.< > > > Thank you Alton for your reply. I had not considered the sutras in > that way before. I don't think you are wrong about internal > conditioning but misconception also includes false logic and > mistakes. I apologize for seeming rigid in my views. > > Just as Hatha Yoga helps a person maintain a healthy body through > physical asanas, Raja Yoga is provided to help maintain a healthy > mind with mental asanas. The position one takes on mental issues may > conflict with the position the same person takes on other issues. > Having a clear mind with few obstructions is the objective. > > Thank you again for replying > Love > Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2002 Report Share Posted May 5, 2002 RamanaMaharshi, "lostnfoundation" <leenalton@h...> wrote: > Dear Bobby. G > I dont want to give a misconception that all paths will not work > equally as well for the seeker that chooses that path, because I > truly believe that the path one is on is the right one for that > person. It is mostly earnestness that leads to success. > Ramana's concept of the Self is just so simple and clear to me so > that is why I am devoted to his teachings. > Aloha, > Alton > Dear Alton; What I have said does not disagree so far as I know with the teachings of Sri Bhagavan. I have read his complete works many times over and find them the clearest and most accessible teachings anywhere. His love and insight both mental and emotional are what led me here. Please do not believe I am trying to promote any thing different. I came to my understanding of his words through a circuitous route, the mind. Until I had sorted out my own problems his words were not clear to me, I offer what I know in my posts in the hopes that someone will benefit and someone will tell me where I am wrong. If we were perfect already we would not need help. Love Bobby G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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