An Interview with David Godman - [15]

May 21, 2002

In his book Relaxing Into Clear Seeing, Arjuna Nick Ardagh says, "In

the past few years, there has been a dramatic increase in the ease with which

Self-realization can occur. Indeed, a kind of 'epidemic' has begun in the West

whereby the awakened view is becoming increasingly available." It seems to me

that Arjuna is referring here to glimpses, not Self-realization, and I wonder if

they are any more common today than they have been in India for millennia.

Perhaps the real difference is that Indians didn't regard these glimpses as

particularly unusual or worth noting.

I don't think that there is an epidemic of Self-realization in the

West or anywhere else. I think full realization is a rare phenomenon. There are

certainly more people who think that they have realized the Self, but I think

that they are deluding themselves.

When egolessness is there, there is no one left who can stabilize or

lose the experience. These experiences come and go. They go because the vasanas

of the mind reassert themselves. When they arise and take over, you resume the

practice again. This is the classic prescription of the Gita, and it is also

what Ramana taught. Stay awake, stay mindful, and whenever you catch the mind

straying, take it back to its source.

As regards Mathru Sri Sarada, I think you are referring to the

experience she had just before she realized the Self. She felt that her mind had

died because she was temporarily abiding in the Heart, but her Guru, Lakshmana

Swamy, could see that her "I" was not dead, which meant that this was a

temporary experience. She was talking about her experiences and genuinely felt

that her "I" was dead, but it was not a real, permanent awakening.

A few minutes later, with the help of her Guru, the "I" went back to

its source and died forever. There was no fully awakened state prior to this

experience. The final death of the "I" in the Heart was necessary to complete

the realization process

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