Guest guest Posted June 2, 2002 Report Share Posted June 2, 2002 Dear Viorica, thank you for this interview with David Godman and all your contributions. This here is very interesting. Godman is surely right to say that there is no epidemic of Self-realization anywhere today. The way is today the same as it was always, only the teaching is more easily available - and so we are more fortune as our ancestors because of this availability of the teaching. In Sri Ramana Gabriele RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > In his book Relaxing Into Clear Seeing, Arjuna Nick Ardagh says, "In the past few years, there has been a dramatic increase in the ease with which Self-realization can occur. Indeed, a kind of 'epidemic' has begun in the West whereby the awakened view is becoming increasingly available." It seems to me that Arjuna is referring here to glimpses, not Self-realization, and I wonder if they are any more common today than they have been in India for millennia. Perhaps the real difference is that Indians didn't regard these glimpses as particularly unusual or worth noting. > > I don't think that there is an epidemic of Self-realization in the West or anywhere else. I think full realization is a rare phenomenon. There are certainly more people who think that they have realized the Self, but I think that they are deluding themselves. > > > According to some Western advaita teachers who claim to follow Sri Ramana's teachings, Self-realization is a two-part process. First, there is an awakening, a temporary experience of non- duality and egolessness. The second step is to stabilize the experience of this awakening, or in other words, make it permanent. > > But when I read about Mathru Sri Sarada in your book No Mind — I Am The Self, I seem to get a completely different picture. In her case, a permanent awakening experience may have been necessary, but by itself was not sufficient. For her, Self-realization happened only when her mind descended into her heart center and dissolved permanently. I get the impression that she could have remained in the "awakened state" indefinitely without this descent into the heart. > > Would you comment on this? > > > When egolessness is there, there is no one left who can stabilize or lose the experience. These experiences come and go. They go because the vasanas of the mind reassert themselves. When they arise and take over, you resume the practice again. This is the classic prescription of the Gita, and it is also what Ramana taught. Stay awake, stay mindful, and whenever you catch the mind straying, take it back to its source. > > As regards Mathru Sri Sarada, I think you are referring to the experience she had just before she realized the Self. She felt that her mind had died because she was temporarily abiding in the Heart, but her Guru, Lakshmana Swamy, could see that her "I" was not dead, which meant that this was a temporary experience. She was talking about her experiences and genuinely felt that her "I" was dead, but it was not a real, permanent awakening. > > A few minutes later, with the help of her Guru, the "I" went back to its source and died forever. There was no fully awakened state prior to this experience. The final death of the "I" in the Heart was necessary to complete the realization process from www.realization.org > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2002 Report Share Posted June 2, 2002 Victoria and Gabriele: It does appear that Advaita Dharma is being spread more but it seems there are many who claim to teach it but clearly don't understand it. I doubt if but a handfull who claim to be teachers are qualified to do so. Mark Dear Viorica, thank you for this interview with David Godman and all your contributions. This here is very interesting. Godman is surely right to say that there is no epidemic of Self-realization anywhere today. The way is today the same as it was always, only the teaching is more easily available - and so we are more fortune as our ancestors because of this availability of the teaching. In Sri Ramana Gabriele RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > In his book Relaxing Into Clear Seeing, Arjuna Nick Ardagh says, "In the past few years, there has been a dramatic increase in the ease with which Self-realization can occur. Indeed, a kind of 'epidemic' has begun in the West whereby the awakened view is becoming increasingly available." It seems to me that Arjuna is referring here to glimpses, not Self-realization, and I wonder if they are any more common today than they have been in India for millennia. Perhaps the real difference is that Indians didn't regard these glimpses as particularly unusual or worth noting. > > I don't think that there is an epidemic of Self-realization in the West or anywhere else. I think full realization is a rare phenomenon. There are certainly more people who think that they have realized the Self, but I think that they are deluding themselves. > > > According to some Western advaita teachers who claim to follow Sri Ramana's teachings, Self-realization is a two-part process. First, there is an awakening, a temporary experience of non- duality and egolessness. The second step is to stabilize the experience of this awakening, or in other words, make it permanent. > > But when I read about Mathru Sri Sarada in your book No Mind — I Am The Self, I seem to get a completely different picture. In her case, a permanent awakening experience may have been necessary, but by itself was not sufficient. For her, Self-realization happened only when her mind descended into her heart center and dissolved permanently. I get the impression that she could have remained in the "awakened state" indefinitely without this descent into the heart. > > Would you comment on this? > > > When egolessness is there, there is no one left who can stabilize or lose the experience. These experiences come and go. They go because the vasanas of the mind reassert themselves. When they arise and take over, you resume the practice again. This is the classic prescription of the Gita, and it is also what Ramana taught. Stay awake, stay mindful, and whenever you catch the mind straying, take it back to its source. > > As regards Mathru Sri Sarada, I think you are referring to the experience she had just before she realized the Self. She felt that her mind had died because she was temporarily abiding in the Heart, but her Guru, Lakshmana Swamy, could see that her "I" was not dead, which meant that this was a temporary experience. She was talking about her experiences and genuinely felt that her "I" was dead, but it was not a real, permanent awakening. > > A few minutes later, with the help of her Guru, the "I" went back to its source and died forever. There was no fully awakened state prior to this experience. The final death of the "I" in the Heart was necessary to complete the realization process from www.realization.org > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- Un: RamanaMaharshi- List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/RamanaMaharshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2002 Report Share Posted June 3, 2002 Vicki: Very Precious for sure!! Mark dear Mark, I share the same opinion as David Godman about the phenomenon of Self-Realization. I think that to live in the state of Self-Realization is a very rare phenomenon. The 20th century brought with it the spreading of this teaching all over the world, but Self-Realization as in the case of Ramana Maharshi is a very rare case.There are many teachers , the teachers teach a teaching ; Those who embody it,live it, are indeed so rare and precious ; all my love to them, vicki > > It does appear that Advaita Dharma is being spread more but it > seems there are many who claim to teach it but clearly don't understand > it. I doubt if but a handfull who claim to be teachers are qualified to do so. > > Mark > > > > > I don't think that there is an epidemic of Self-realization > in the West or anywhere else. I think full realization is a rare > phenomenon. There are certainly more people who think that they have > realized the Self, but I think that they are deluding themselves. > > > Sponsor Post message: RamanaMaharshi Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- Un: RamanaMaharshi- List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/RamanaMaharshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2002 Report Share Posted June 3, 2002 Dear Mark and Vicki, Two teachers who clearly teach, live and embody Advaita Vedanta are Nome and Russell Smith at the Society of Abidance in Truth in Santa Cruz, CA. They teach Self-inquiry with the depth only possible from the Self-realized. Their presentation of Ramana's teaching is deep beyond words. They hold satsang every Sunday at 10AM, and have many other teaching events. The temple is beautiful and filled with peace. They also have several retreats each year. The next retreat is coming up later this month. It is the Self- Knowledge Retreat. Clipped from their site, www.satramana.org ========= June 21 - June 23, Friday evening through Sunday afternoon. This retreat presents in-depth teachings of spiritual discrimination, the discernment between the Self and what is not the Self, between what is real and what is not. Teachings deal with the nature of Being, the nature of Consciousness, the "Truth of no-creation" or the Unborn State, and transcendence of the world, body, mind, and ego. The aspirants also learn and practice what makes for successful spiritual practice, both inwardly and in a manifest manner that is conducive to Self-Realization. Teachings are drawn from the traditions of Adi Sankara (Advaita Vedanta sage) and Ramana Maharshi, and the sages of the Upanishads. The aspirants also learn about why Self-Knowledge is essential, what it is and what it is not, and how to actually have meditative experience on the path of Knowledge so that one's meditation is truly in accord with nondual Self-Knowledge. The retreat provides much time for silent meditation, both guided and unguided, in addition to the instructional periods. ======== I think there is still some space available for this retreat. Call them at (831) 425-7287 to find out. This teaching is beyond value for any seeker who is serious about their practice. I would vigorously encourage anyone who is able to attend a SAT retreat, and to start to receive instruction from Nome and Russ. They teach at a depth that is found rarely in the world. I am a member of the small group that studies with these teachers. Though we are in a major area (the San Francisco bay area), it seems not many are actually interested in Self-realization. These teachers are not for one who wants "to be in the presence" and feel good. They are for the seeker who is ready to work for their own liberation. These teachers show us that Liberation is our very nature, and teach us to inquire to see that it is our only Reality. I am a seeker who has studied with Nome and Russ for about 10 years. When I actually started a daily inquiry practice, I started to see something "deepening" in my life. I am one of a number of seekers at SAT in which one can see real progress. Satsangs are wonderful now; the depth of the sangha makes for a deeper presentation of the Truth (particularly in the questions and answers). Satsang consists of meditation, a short talk by the sage(s) (Sometimes Nome teaches, sometimes Nome and Russ both teach. They both teach at the retreats.) I want to invite all who can possibly attend to SAT, for a retreat or for Sunday satsang. If you feel like I do, that nothing is really more important than your own spiritual growth, then this really is a precious opportunity. I know I am waxing with great enthusiasm. That is what is in my heart. In doing this I want nothing for myself, I want others who are interested and ready to imbibe this teaching and to sit with these teachers. We are Not two, Richard RamanaMaharshi, "Mark" <milarepa@a...> wrote: > Vicki: > > Very Precious for sure!! > > Mark > > > dear Mark, > > I share the same opinion as David Godman > about the phenomenon of Self-Realization. > I think that to live in the state of Self-Realization > is a very rare phenomenon. The 20th century brought > with it the spreading of this teaching all over the world, > but Self-Realization as in the case of Ramana Maharshi > is a very rare case.There are many teachers , > the teachers teach a teaching ; Those who embody it,live it, > are indeed so rare and precious ; > all my love to them, > vicki > > > > > It does appear that Advaita Dharma is being spread more but it > > seems there are many who claim to teach it but clearly don't > understand > > it. I doubt if but a handfull who claim to be teachers are > qualified to do so. > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > I don't think that there is an epidemic of Self- realization > > in the West or anywhere else. I think full realization is a rare > > phenomenon. There are certainly more people who think that they > have > > realized the Self, but I think that they are deluding themselves. > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi@o... > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi-@o... > Un: RamanaMaharshi-@o... > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner@o... > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/RamanaMaharshi > > Terms of Service. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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