Guest guest Posted June 8, 2002 Report Share Posted June 8, 2002 "I find this email all unfair," Dear Viorica: Thanks for telling me, Aloha, Alton RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > dear Alton, > > I find this email all unfair, > > vicki > > > > > You two brilliant guys,thanks for your answers to my query. > > > > Dear Miles posted: "The decrepit Miles replies" > > People email me that you are realized. That must include the fact > > that you still identify with a decrepit body? > > > > Sometimes out of boredom I create controversy. At least I am honest. > > Ok tonight if I remember I will ask, 'who is it that is bored'. > > Then my answer will be 'dono mind'..lol > > Aloha, > > Alton > > > > > > RamanaMaharshi, Miles Wright <ramana.bhakta@v...> wrote: > > > > > > The decrepit Miles replies: > > > > > > M. : The Guru may be sometimes inanimate also, as in the case of > > Avadhuta. > > > God, Guru and the Self are identical. > > > (from Talk; 23) > > > > > > Living...dead, birth...death, such hurdles. > > > > > > Supremely complete, without beginning or end, unlimited, > > unascertainable, > > > unchanging, Brahman is One without a second, there is nothing other > > than He. > > > (Vivekacudamani) > > > > > > Ever Yours in Sri Bhagavan, > > > Miles > > > ========= > > > > > > > > Dear Miles sagely stated: > > > > Guru is absolutely necessary. > > > >> > > > >> om gurave namah > > > > > > > > Ignorant Alton asks. Does it have to be a living Guru? > > > > My other 5 masters that initiated me, and that no longer interest > > me, > > > > say absolultely that you need a living Guru. > > > > Thanks in advance and have a pleasant weekend, the whole dear > > group > > > > included. > > > > Aloha, > > > > Alton > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2002 Report Share Posted June 8, 2002 Dear Alton, to come back to your origin question and letting out all the talks between - is a living guru necessary? It depends on what you see in "living". Living in the absolute sense has nothing to do with in the body. So Ramana is until today a living Guru. The Guru can appear in all kind of forms - even in that of a mountain like Arunachala. There is a proverb, that if the disciple is ready the Guru will appear. So it happens. The Guru will reveal himself for the seeker when the time comes and there is absolutely no doubt about. So no need to discuss this matter. The Guru will come in time and the disciple will recognize him as such. In HIM Gabriele RamanaMaharshi, "lostnfoundation" <leenalton@h...> wrote: > "I find this email all unfair," > > Dear Viorica: > Thanks for telling me, > Aloha, > Alton > > > RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > > dear Alton, > > > > I find this email all unfair, > > > > vicki > > > > > > > > > You two brilliant guys,thanks for your answers to my query. > > > > > > Dear Miles posted: "The decrepit Miles replies" > > > People email me that you are realized. That must include the fact > > > that you still identify with a decrepit body? > > > > > > Sometimes out of boredom I create controversy. At least I am > honest. > > > Ok tonight if I remember I will ask, 'who is it that is bored'. > > > Then my answer will be 'dono mind'..lol > > > Aloha, > > > Alton > > > > > > > > > RamanaMaharshi, Miles Wright <ramana.bhakta@v...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > The decrepit Miles replies: > > > > > > > > M. : The Guru may be sometimes inanimate also, as in the case > of > > > Avadhuta. > > > > God, Guru and the Self are identical. > > > > (from Talk; 23) > > > > > > > > Living...dead, birth...death, such hurdles. > > > > > > > > Supremely complete, without beginning or end, unlimited, > > > unascertainable, > > > > unchanging, Brahman is One without a second, there is nothing > other > > > than He. > > > > (Vivekacudamani) > > > > > > > > Ever Yours in Sri Bhagavan, > > > > Miles > > > > ========= > > > > > > > > > > Dear Miles sagely stated: > > > > > Guru is absolutely necessary. > > > > >> > > > > >> om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > Ignorant Alton asks. Does it have to be a living Guru? > > > > > My other 5 masters that initiated me, and that no longer > interest > > > me, > > > > > say absolultely that you need a living Guru. > > > > > Thanks in advance and have a pleasant weekend, the whole dear > > > group > > > > > included. > > > > > Aloha, > > > > > Alton > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2002 Report Share Posted June 8, 2002 Dear Viorica asked: "Do you enjoy the controversies that you create" ? Although I am not yet currently REALIZED, the great teachings of the Advaita Masters have taken over my consciousness, so that I am totally convinced that I am not, cannot do anything. It is just the unique configuration of the elements and the qualities of matter that as acting. It does though wake up the list and create lots of interactions that may be beneficial in giving it all up to get it all. Love from another Ramana Devotee. Alton RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > dear Alton, > > your sincerity is appreciated. > you create controversies deliberately and in full consciousness > of what you are doing , I didn't know that you do this out of > boredom. > > Do you enjoy the controversies that you create ? > > vicki > > > > > > "I find this email all unfair," > > > > Dear Viorica: > > Thanks for telling me, > > Aloha, > > Alton > > > >> > dear Alton, > > > > > > I find this email all unfair, > > > > > > vicki > > > > > > > > > > > > > You two brilliant guys,thanks for your answers to my query. > > > > > > > > Dear Miles posted: "The decrepit Miles replies" > > > > People email me that you are realized. That must include the fact > > > > that you still identify with a decrepit body? > > > > > > > > Sometimes out of boredom I create controversy. At least I am > > honest. > > > > Ok tonight if I remember I will ask, 'who is it that is bored'. > > > > Then my answer will be 'dono mind'..lol > > > > Aloha, > > > > Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2002 Report Share Posted June 8, 2002 Dear Gabriele sagely Wrote: "So no need to discuss this matter. The Guru will come in time and the disciple will recognize him as such." I need all the help I can get, from a living or non-living Guru. Aloha, Alton RamanaMaharshi, "gabriele_ebert" <g.ebert@g...> wrote: > Dear Alton, > to come back to your origin question and letting out all the talks > between - is a living guru necessary? > It depends on what you see in "living". Living in the absolute sense > has nothing to do with in the body. So Ramana is until today a living > Guru. > The Guru can appear in all kind of forms - even in that of a mountain > like Arunachala. > There is a proverb, that if the disciple is ready the Guru will > appear. So it happens. The Guru will reveal himself for the seeker > when the time comes and there is absolutely no doubt about. So no > need to discuss this matter. The Guru will come in time and the > disciple will recognize him as such. > > In HIM > Gabriele > > > > > RamanaMaharshi, "lostnfoundation" <leenalton@h...> wrote: > > "I find this email all unfair," > > > > Dear Viorica: > > Thanks for telling me, > > Aloha, > > Alton > > > > > > RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > > > dear Alton, > > > > > > I find this email all unfair, > > > > > > vicki > > > > > > > > > > > > > You two brilliant guys,thanks for your answers to my query. > > > > > > > > Dear Miles posted: "The decrepit Miles replies" > > > > People email me that you are realized. That must include the > fact > > > > that you still identify with a decrepit body? > > > > > > > > Sometimes out of boredom I create controversy. At least I am > > honest. > > > > Ok tonight if I remember I will ask, 'who is it that is bored'. > > > > Then my answer will be 'dono mind'..lol > > > > Aloha, > > > > Alton > > > > > > > > > > > > RamanaMaharshi, Miles Wright <ramana.bhakta@v...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The decrepit Miles replies: > > > > > > > > > > M. : The Guru may be sometimes inanimate also, as in the > case > > of > > > > Avadhuta. > > > > > God, Guru and the Self are identical. > > > > > (from Talk; 23) > > > > > > > > > > Living...dead, birth...death, such hurdles. > > > > > > > > > > Supremely complete, without beginning or end, unlimited, > > > > unascertainable, > > > > > unchanging, Brahman is One without a second, there is nothing > > other > > > > than He. > > > > > (Vivekacudamani) > > > > > > > > > > Ever Yours in Sri Bhagavan, > > > > > Miles > > > > > ========= > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Miles sagely stated: > > > > > > Guru is absolutely necessary. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Ignorant Alton asks. Does it have to be a living Guru? > > > > > > My other 5 masters that initiated me, and that no longer > > interest > > > > me, > > > > > > say absolultely that you need a living Guru. > > > > > > Thanks in advance and have a pleasant weekend, the whole > dear > > > > group > > > > > > included. > > > > > > Aloha, > > > > > > Alton > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2002 Report Share Posted June 8, 2002 Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya Namaste, I find this all confusing. I'm not sure of the intentions behind it and why exactly it even started in the first place. I'm very confused about this. "> > > You two brilliant guys,thanks for your answers to my query. > > > > > > Dear Miles posted: "The decrepit Miles replies" > > > People email me that you are realized. That must include the fact > > > that you still identify with a decrepit body? > > > > > > Sometimes out of boredom I create controversy. At least I am > honest. > > > Ok tonight if I remember I will ask, 'who is it that is bored'. > > > Then my answer will be 'dono mind'..lol" Why would one want to create controversy? Especially one who tries to get past all of this through self enquiry. Namo Ramana Prem Hail to the glorious Goddess Athena, who is of wisdom, purity, beauty. She guides me on my path to enlightenment, ever so gently, ever so pure. Hail to the glorious Athena, who fills me with Her love, strength, and wisdom. I devote to Her with all my being, I know She will never guide me wrongly. So may She shine upon all things just as She does unto me, Forever pure, gentle, peaceful, beautiful. She is the light that shines through all things, And all I do shall be a reflection of this inner light. Hail to Athena! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2002 Report Share Posted June 8, 2002 I think you're referring to delusion. Mark Although I am not yet currently REALIZED, the great teachings of the Advaita Masters have taken over my consciousness, so that I am totally convinced that I am not, cannot do anything. It is just the unique configuration of the elements and the qualities of matter that as acting. It does though wake up the list and create lots of interactions that may be beneficial in giving it all up to get it all. Love from another Ramana Devotee. Alton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 --regarding the notion of a guru I'm under the impression, that a living master: a live pole who carries the god-power on earth is needed to give an impulse to "get started". As a dead doctor can't help an ill person so a dead guru is not much help; even Christ had to be baptised initiated by John and it is said "...let the law be done..." ~ Karta ~ RamanaMaharshi, "lostnfoundation" <leenalton@h...> wrote: > Dear Gabriele sagely Wrote: > > "So no need to discuss this matter. The Guru will come in time and > the disciple will recognize him as such." > > I need all the help I can get, from a living or non-living Guru. > Aloha, > Alton > > > > RamanaMaharshi, "gabriele_ebert" <g.ebert@g...> wrote: > > Dear Alton, > > to come back to your origin question and letting out all the talks > > between - is a living guru necessary? > > It depends on what you see in "living". Living in the absolute > sense > > has nothing to do with in the body. So Ramana is until today a > living > > Guru. > > The Guru can appear in all kind of forms - even in that of a > mountain > > like Arunachala. > > There is a proverb, that if the disciple is ready the Guru will > > appear. So it happens. The Guru will reveal himself for the seeker > > when the time comes and there is absolutely no doubt about. So no > > need to discuss this matter. The Guru will come in time and the > > disciple will recognize him as such. > > > > In HIM > > Gabriele > > > > > > > > > > RamanaMaharshi, "lostnfoundation" <leenalton@h...> > wrote: > > > "I find this email all unfair," > > > > > > Dear Viorica: > > > Thanks for telling me, > > > Aloha, > > > Alton > > > > > > > > > RamanaMaharshi, "viorica weissman" <viorica@z...> > wrote: > > > > dear Alton, > > > > > > > > I find this email all unfair, > > > > > > > > vicki > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You two brilliant guys,thanks for your answers to my query. > > > > > > > > > > Dear Miles posted: "The decrepit Miles replies" > > > > > People email me that you are realized. That must include the > > fact > > > > > that you still identify with a decrepit body? > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes out of boredom I create controversy. At least I am > > > honest. > > > > > Ok tonight if I remember I will ask, 'who is it that is > bored'. > > > > > Then my answer will be 'dono mind'..lol > > > > > Aloha, > > > > > Alton > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RamanaMaharshi, Miles Wright <ramana.bhakta@v...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The decrepit Miles replies: > > > > > > > > > > > > M. : The Guru may be sometimes inanimate also, as in the > > case > > > of > > > > > Avadhuta. > > > > > > God, Guru and the Self are identical. > > > > > > (from Talk; 23) > > > > > > > > > > > > Living...dead, birth...death, such hurdles. > > > > > > > > > > > > Supremely complete, without beginning or end, unlimited, > > > > > unascertainable, > > > > > > unchanging, Brahman is One without a second, there is > nothing > > > other > > > > > than He. > > > > > > (Vivekacudamani) > > > > > > > > > > > > Ever Yours in Sri Bhagavan, > > > > > > Miles > > > > > > ========= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Miles sagely stated: > > > > > > > Guru is absolutely necessary. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> om gurave namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ignorant Alton asks. Does it have to be a living Guru? > > > > > > > My other 5 masters that initiated me, and that no longer > > > interest > > > > > me, > > > > > > > say absolultely that you need a living Guru. > > > > > > > Thanks in advance and have a pleasant weekend, the whole > > dear > > > > > group > > > > > > > included. > > > > > > > Aloha, > > > > > > > Alton > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 dear Vicky, seems like you have an ongoing live conversation with Ramana, because you answered to the question in your post " The One Initiator works through all the gurus in the world, thus there is no difference between them and Him." --the idea is to meet a LIVING guru tho <smile> "Q: How can we meet the appointed guru? M: Intense meditation brings about the consummation. The sage's glance has a purifying effect. If you understand your own reality, the rishi's reality will be clear to you. There is only one Master and that is the Self. The One Initiator works through all the gurus in the world, thus there is no difference between them and Him. He bestows His teaching and initiation - which is the highest - in silence. Q: How can one identify a competent guru? M: By the peace of mind in his presence and by the sense of respect you feel for him. ~ Karta ~ RamanaMaharshi, viorica weissman <viorica@z...> wrote: > dear Karta , > > I am not sure I understand correctly what you mean by > dead doctor or dead guru. > Surely it is not the case with Ramana, > > vicki > > > --regarding the notion of a guru I'm under the > > impression, that a living master: a live pole who > > carries the god-power on earth is needed to give an > > impulse to "get started". As a dead doctor can't > > help an ill person so a dead guru is not much help; > > even Christ had to be baptised initiated by John and > > it is said "...let the law be done..." > > > > ~ Karta ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 get real! ~ Karta ~ RamanaMaharshi, viorica weissman <viorica@z...> wrote: > > dear Vicky, seems like you have an ongoing live > > conversation with Ramana, because you answered to > > the question in your post " The One Initiator works > > through all the gurus in the world, thus there is no > > difference between them and Him." --the idea is to > > meet a LIVING guru tho > > <smile> > > > > " > > dear Karta, > > that LIVING guru is Ramana Maharshi, > > vicki > > ===== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 Karta: Vicki doesn't need to "get real" you need to learn discrimination. There are hoards of people who think they are enlightened and/or gurus who aren't qualified to make this claim. Many of these profess to be somehow sanctioned by Bhagavan and they are either mistaken or are lying. Mark get real! ~ Karta ~ RamanaMaharshi, viorica weissman <viorica@z...> wrote: > > dear Vicky, seems like you have an ongoing live > > conversation with Ramana, because you answered to > > the question in your post " The One Initiator works > > through all the gurus in the world, thus there is no > > difference between them and Him." --the idea is to > > meet a LIVING guru tho > > <smile> > > > > " > > dear Karta, > > that LIVING guru is Ramana Maharshi, > > vicki > > ===== Post message: RamanaMaharshi Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- Un: RamanaMaharshi- List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/RamanaMaharshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 Mark, I met several masters and one is a perfect living master: a SatGuru of the Sant Mat tradition and I KNOW he is and condiser myself very lucky for this Grace, can't help it... <smile> I'm new to the I-I thought tho, and I'm careful when I sense cultic thought swayed from REALITY. ~Karta~ RamanaMaharshi, "Mark" <milarepa@a...> wrote: > Karta: > > Vicki doesn't need to "get real" you need to learn discrimination. There > are hoards of people who think they are enlightened and/or gurus who aren't > qualified to make this claim. Many of these profess to be somehow > sanctioned by Bhagavan and they are either mistaken or are lying. > > Mark get real! > > ~ Karta ~ > > RamanaMaharshi, viorica weissman <viorica@z...> wrote: > > > dear Vicky, seems like you have an ongoing live > > > conversation with Ramana, because you answered to > > > the question in your post " The One Initiator works > > > through all the gurus in the world, thus there is no > > > difference between them and Him." --the idea is to > > > meet a LIVING guru tho > > > <smile> > > > > > > " > > > > dear Karta, > > > > that LIVING guru is Ramana Maharshi, > > > > vicki > > > > ===== > > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi@o... > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi-@o... > Un: RamanaMaharshi-@o... > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner@o... > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/RamanaMaharshi > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 Hi Karta: I understand your viewpoint. There are many spiritual masters from different traditions who have a lineage to validate their realization. This makes it easier to know who is real and who isn't. I've observed, however, that with a teaching as subtle as Bhagavan's that there are many who perhaps have an intellectual grasp or an occasional insight who believe they've reached enlightenment and this simply isn't so. The sahaj samadhi that is the realization that Bhagavan taught was a true, deep realization and not just a mental gymnastic as some people believe and even teach. Mark Mark, I met several masters and one is a perfect living master: a SatGuru of the Sant Mat tradition and I KNOW he is and condiser myself very lucky for this Grace, can't help it... <smile> I'm new to the I-I tho. ~Karta~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 so is the case with all the path. I'm very happy I found this group and love Ramana: I feel a strong heart pull toward him. Mark, you have an interesting e-mail <grin> Milarepa, why did you choose that? I responded to in Vicky's post and ment the same as it said that: "The One Initiator works through all the gurus in the world" (off course I was thinking of a live SatGuru for her to do the deed) <smile> ~Karta~ here: M: Intense meditation brings about the consummation. The sage's glance has a purifying effect. If you understand your own reality, the rishi's reality will be clear to you. There is only one Master and that is the Self. The One Initiator works through all the gurus in the world, thus there is no difference between them and Him. He bestows His teaching and initiation - which is the highest - in silence. Q: How can one identify a competent guru? M: By the peace of mind in his presence and by the sense of respect you feel for him. --------- RamanaMaharshi, "Mark" <milarepa@a...> wrote: > Hi Karta: > > I understand your viewpoint. There are many spiritual masters from > different traditions who have a lineage to validate their realization. This > makes it easier to know who is real and who isn't. I've observed, however, > that with a teaching as subtle as Bhagavan's that there are many who perhaps > have an intellectual grasp or an occasional insight who believe they've > reached enlightenment and this simply isn't so. The sahaj samadhi that is > the realization that Bhagavan taught was a true, deep realization and not > just a mental gymnastic as some people believe and even teach. > > Mark > > Mark, I met several masters and one is a perfect living master: a SatGuru > of the Sant Mat tradition and I KNOW he is and condiser myself very lucky > for this Grace, can't help it... <smile> I'm new to the I-I tho. > > ~Karta~ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2002 Report Share Posted June 10, 2002 Mark, you didn't imply or started a discussion, an argument with me about: "my Guru is higher than your Guru.." I hope, because I won't get into that, but to make a point and to ask you a question HOW DO YOU KNOW!? what you state: " >there are many who perhaps > have an intellectual grasp or an occasional insight who believe they've > reached enlightenment and this simply isn't so. The sahaj samadhi that is > the realization that Bhagavan taught was a true, deep realization.." --since everybody is able to comprehend as much as themselves, I-I and all!, but only an other enlightened person really understands other gurus state of enlightenment. By the way Sahaj Yoga is aka Sant Mat aka Surat Shabd Yoga aka RadhaSoami aka Sehaj Marg and so and on.. I hate to repeat myself, but: you should "get real" too <grin> ~with love Karta~ RamanaMaharshi, "satkartar5" <sat_karta@h...> wrote: > so is the case with all the path. I'm very happy I found this group and love Ramana: I feel a strong heart pull toward him. > > Mark, you have an interesting e-mail <grin> Milarepa, why did you choose that? > > I responded to in Vicky's post and ment the same as it said that: > > "The One Initiator works through > all the gurus in the world" > > (off course I was thinking of a live SatGuru for her to do the deed) <smile> > > ~Karta~ > > here: > M: Intense meditation brings about the consummation. The sage's glance has a > purifying effect. If you understand your own reality, the rishi's reality will > be clear to you. > > There is only one Master and that is the Self. > > The One Initiator works through > all the gurus in the world, thus there is no difference between them and Him. > > He bestows His teaching and initiation - which is the highest - in silence. > Q: How can one identify a competent guru? > M: By the peace of mind in his presence and by the sense of respect you feel > for him. > --------- > RamanaMaharshi, "Mark" <milarepa@a...> wrote: > > Hi Karta: > > > > I understand your viewpoint. There are many spiritual masters from > > different traditions who have a lineage to validate their realization. This > > makes it easier to know who is real and who isn't. I've observed, however, > > that with a teaching as subtle as Bhagavan's that there are many who perhaps > > have an intellectual grasp or an occasional insight who believe they've > > reached enlightenment and this simply isn't so. The sahaj samadhi that is > > the realization that Bhagavan taught was a true, deep realization and not > > just a mental gymnastic as some people believe and even teach. > > > > Mark > > > > Mark, I met several masters and one is a perfect living master: a SatGuru > > of the Sant Mat tradition and I KNOW he is and condiser myself very lucky > > for this Grace, can't help it... <smile> I'm new to the I-I tho. > > > > ~Karta~ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 thank you dear Viorica for your input, with Mark it was a misunderstanding, since I only wanted to stress the importance of the living master in good will.. In the Sant Mat tradition we say and meditate with on: Sat Naam = trurth is my identity. Where Sat means Truth and Nam means name and also synonymous with the Sound-current the Shabd what sustains all: also called Kalma by Islam, Sharosha by the jews and in higher Buddhism called Nad or the "Word" in the Bible (..in the beginning there was the Word and the Word was with God AND THE WORD WAS GOD) so you see I'm alread familiar with Sehaj ~with all love Karta~ Ps: Sehaj Marg (Sri Chabdra) is a modern Sant Mat; related more to the Heart (as I think Ramana is) as the fomer is with the third-eye, they use pranhuti transmission... RamanaMaharshi, "viorica_weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > . By the way Sahaj Yoga is aka Sant Mat aka Surat Shabd Yoga aka > RadhaSoami aka Sehaj Marg and so and on.. > > > Maharshi : > > Sahaja is the original state so that sadhana > amounts to the removal of obstacles for the realization > of this abiding truth. > > By repeated practice one can become accustomed to turning inwards > and finding the Self. One must always and constantly make an > effort, until one has permanently realized. Once the effort ceases, > the state becomes natural and the Supreme takes possession of the > person with an unbroken current. > > Until it has become permanently natural and your habitual state, > know that you have not realized the Self, only glimpsed it. > > The soul that realizes the Self may still be connected with a > working body, senses, and mind, without identifying itself with > that body. > > > > > > There can be satisfaction only when you reach the source, otherwise > there > will be restlessness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 Hi Karta: How I know is a good question and in many cases I don't. What I do know is that I've spent many years studying all the great traditions and practicing myself and based on this I've developed enough discrimination to understand many spiritual practices, methods, approaches and realizations. I've also had the benefit of a teacher who was able to illustrate the differences in methods from his direct understanding. The idea of this is not to judge between but to understand the sometimes subtle distinctions. The idea here is not to one-up but to make clear distinctions between teachings and to be able to discriminate the understanding and even the realization of a teacher. Actually you can determine quite a bit by what someone says when you have sufficient experience. It's like being able to discriminate the differences between diamonds. There are yellow diamonds, blue diamonds, white diamonds, etc. and they are all diamonds to be sure. To an untrained eye, they all look alike but a to a trained and experienced individual the differences are quite obvious even though they are all diamonds. Mark Mark, you didn't imply or started a discussion, an argument with me about: "my Guru is higher than your Guru.." I hope, because I won't get into that, but to make a point and to ask you a question HOW DO YOU KNOW!? what you state: " >there are many who perhaps > have an intellectual grasp or an occasional insight who believe they've > reached enlightenment and this simply isn't so. The sahaj samadhi that is > the realization that Bhagavan taught was a true, deep realization.." --since everybody is able to comprehend as much as themselves, I-I and all!, but only an other enlightened person really understands other gurus state of enlightenment. By the way Sahaj Yoga is aka Sant Mat aka Surat Shabd Yoga aka RadhaSoami aka Sehaj Marg and so and on.. I hate to repeat myself, but: you should "get real" too <grin> ~with love Karta~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 Karta: The name was given to me many years ago. Mark Mark, you have an interesting e-mail <grin> Milarepa, why did you choose that? I responded to in Vicky's post and ment the same as it said that: "The One Initiator works through all the gurus in the world" (off course I was thinking of a live SatGuru for her to do the deed) <smile> ~Karta~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 Hi Karta: I understand your points and I'd like to, if I may, point out the distinctions. The practice in Sant Mat, as I understand it, is to meditate on shabd, or the sound and the intent is to lead to samadhi. Also, you are correct about the shabd having many different names and being recognized in all traditions. The shabd is the manifestation of the divine in the form of sound and this is an honorable tradition represented by many great saints. The distinction between this and what Bhagavan taught, as I understand it, is that Bhagavan recommended even going behind the sound, as it were, to inquire into who is hearing that sound. If a sound is heard, it stands to reason that there is a someone who is hearing it. I understand Bhagavan to be saying that every experience should be inquired into whether it be a thought, a mundane experience, or even an experience of the divine as sound. It isn't a matter of who is right or wrong, I see it as a matter of simple understanding the distinctions between traditions. Regarding sahaj, I'd like to make a few more distinctions because the definitions of samadhi are quite loose and confusing to westerners. Sahaj samadhi as Bhagavan taught is an "open-eyed" natural samadhi or a resting in the natural state and this is rather unique. Most traditions teach methods for reaching concentration state such as savikalpa samadhi (samadhi with form) and nirvikalpa samadhi (samadhi without form) and both of these states are "closed-eyed" trance states. I don't mean to minimize these as realizations as they are rare accomplishments but what Bhagavan was teaching was sahaj samadhi which is beyond a concentration but is an "open-eyed" state where one abides permanently in samadhi during daily activity. Both savikalpa and nirvikalpa are temporary trance-related states of divine communion. Mark thank you dear Viorica for your input, with Mark it was a misunderstanding, since I only wanted to stress the importance of the living master in good will.. In the Sant Mat tradition we say and meditate with on: Sat Naam = trurth is my identity. Where Sat means Truth and Nam means name and also synonymous with the Sound-current the Shabd what sustains all: also called Kalma by Islam, Sharosha by the jews and in higher Buddhism called Nad or the "Word" in the Bible (..in the beginning there was the Word and the Word was with God AND THE WORD WAS GOD) so you see I'm alread familiar with Sehaj ~with all love Karta~ Ps: Sehaj Marg (Sri Chabdra) is a modern Sant Mat; related more to the Heart (as I think Ramana is) as the fomer is with the third-eye, they use pranhuti transmission... RamanaMaharshi, "viorica_weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > . By the way Sahaj Yoga is aka Sant Mat aka Surat Shabd Yoga aka > RadhaSoami aka Sehaj Marg and so and on.. > > > Maharshi : > > Sahaja is the original state so that sadhana > amounts to the removal of obstacles for the realization > of this abiding truth. > > By repeated practice one can become accustomed to turning inwards > and finding the Self. One must always and constantly make an > effort, until one has permanently realized. Once the effort ceases, > the state becomes natural and the Supreme takes possession of the > person with an unbroken current. > > Until it has become permanently natural and your habitual state, > know that you have not realized the Self, only glimpsed it. > > The soul that realizes the Self may still be connected with a > working body, senses, and mind, without identifying itself with > that body. > > > > > > There can be satisfaction only when you reach the source, otherwise > there > will be restlessness. Post message: RamanaMaharshi Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- Un: RamanaMaharshi- List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/RamanaMaharshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2002 Report Share Posted June 11, 2002 dear Mark, the details and the correct understanding is important in communication, your post sheds light on many questions I had and I thank you for that, and this letter sounds better, "than Baghavan's Sehaj is the highest etc... " --you wrote: "Sant Mat, as I understand it, is to meditate on shabd, or the sound and the intent is to lead to samadhi." correction is that we meditate WITH the Sound & Light and intent is to be led to our true identity as you would categorize it to be and live in an opened eyed samadhi as my understanding the state is if one is ONE with god's will. Sounds the same to me. <smile> Since I'm new to this thought; off hand I see no reason to wanting to "go behind the sound" I'll get back to you on this later and with some questions I've. --this sumes it up for me beautifuly by Maharshi: Sahaja is the original state so that sadhan amounts to the removal of obstacles for the realization of this abiding truth. ~with all love Karta~ Ps.: Sat Kartar is a given name too RamanaMaharshi, "Mark" <milarepa@a...> wrote: > Hi Karta: > > I understand your points and I'd like to, if I may, point out the distinctions. > > The practice in Sant Mat, as I understand it, is to meditate on shabd, or the > sound and the intent is to lead to samadhi. Also, you are correct about the > shabd having many different names and being recognized in all traditions. > The shabd is the manifestation of the divine in the form of sound and this > is an honorable tradition represented by many great saints. > > The distinction between this and what Bhagavan taught, as I understand it, > is that Bhagavan recommended even going behind the sound, as it were, to > inquire into who is hearing that sound. If a sound is heard, it stands to reason > that there is a someone who is hearing it. I understand Bhagavan to be saying > that every experience should be inquired into whether it be a thought, a mundane > experience, or even an experience of the divine as sound. It isn't a matter of who > is right or wrong, I see it as a matter of simple understanding the distinctions > between > traditions. > > Regarding sahaj, I'd like to make a few more distinctions because the definitions > of samadhi are quite loose and confusing to westerners. Sahaj samadhi as Bhagavan > taught is an "open-eyed" natural samadhi or a resting in the natural state and this > is > rather unique. Most traditions teach methods for reaching concentration state such > as savikalpa samadhi (samadhi with form) and nirvikalpa samadhi (samadhi without > form) and both of these states are "closed-eyed" trance states. I don't mean to > minimize > these as realizations as they are rare accomplishments but what Bhagavan was > teaching > was sahaj samadhi which is beyond a concentration but is an "open-eyed" state where > one abides permanently in samadhi during daily activity. Both savikalpa and > nirvikalpa > are temporary trance-related states of divine communion. > > Mark thank you dear Viorica for your input, with Mark it was a misunderstanding, since I > only wanted to stress the importance of the living master in good will.. > > In the Sant Mat tradition we say and meditate with on: Sat Naam = trurth is my > identity. Where Sat means Truth and Nam means name and also synonymous with the > Sound-current the Shabd what sustains all: also called Kalma by Islam, Sharosha by > the jews and in higher Buddhism called Nad or the "Word" in the Bible (..in the > beginning there was the Word and the Word was with God AND THE WORD WAS GOD) > > so you see I'm alread familiar with Sehaj > > ~with all love Karta~ > Ps: Sehaj Marg (Sri Chabdra) is a modern Sant Mat; related more to the Heart (as I > think Ramana is) as the fomer is with the third-eye, they use pranhuti > transmission... > > RamanaMaharshi, "viorica_weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > > . By the way Sahaj Yoga is aka Sant Mat aka Surat Shabd Yoga aka > > RadhaSoami aka Sehaj Marg and so and on.. > > > > Maharshi : > > > > Sahaja is the original state so that sadhana > > amounts to the removal of obstacles for the realization > > of this abiding truth. > > > > By repeated practice one can become accustomed to turning inwards > > and finding the Self. One must always and constantly make an > > effort, until one has permanently realized. Once the effort ceases, > > the state becomes natural and the Supreme takes possession of the > > person with an unbroken current. > > > > Until it has become permanently natural and your habitual state, > > know that you have not realized the Self, only glimpsed it. > > > > The soul that realizes the Self may still be connected with a > > working body, senses, and mind, without identifying itself with > > that body. > > > > > > > > > > > > There can be satisfaction only when you reach the source, otherwise > > there > > will be restlessness. > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi@o... > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi-@o... > Un: RamanaMaharshi-@o... > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner@o... > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/RamanaMaharshi > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2002 Report Share Posted June 14, 2002 dear Mark, I came to the Gaia thought "naturally': I had a Kundalini quickening around 9/11. Reading alone didn't call my attention to Ramana now I feel a heart pull toward him. I came to the same state by the way of meditation, as I'm trained in Sant Mat. Regarding of going "behind the Sound_current" now I can say it is not necessary and not possible, it would fall in the category of mind games. I think in your terminology Naam is the Brahman itself. As yet meditation is easier for me than vichara (if that is the method of constant I'm questioning) Quoting Ramana from Stuti Panchakam (thanks Gabriele for calling myattention to it<smile>): Those who follow the path of enquiry realize that the mind which remains at the end of the enquiry is Brahman. Those who practise meditation realize that the mind which remains at the end of the meditation is the object of their meditation. As the result is the same in either case it is the duty of aspirants to practise continuously either of these methods till the goal is reached. ----------- Perfection in dhyana is the state of abiding in the Self (lit., abiding in the form of 'that' tadakaranilai). As meditation functions in an exceedingly subtle manner at the source of the mind it is not difficult to perceive its rise and subsidence. ~all love Karta~ RamanaMaharshi, "Mark" <milarepa@a...> wrote: > Hi Karta: > > I understand your points and I'd like to, if I may, point out the distinctions. > > The practice in Sant Mat, as I understand it, is to meditate on shabd, or the > sound and the intent is to lead to samadhi. Also, you are correct about the > shabd having many different names and being recognized in all traditions. > The shabd is the manifestation of the divine in the form of sound and this > is an honorable tradition represented by many great saints. > > The distinction between this and what Bhagavan taught, as I understand it, > is that Bhagavan recommended even going behind the sound, as it were, to > inquire into who is hearing that sound. If a sound is heard, it stands to reason > that there is a someone who is hearing it. I understand Bhagavan to be saying > that every experience should be inquired into whether it be a thought, a mundane > experience, or even an experience of the divine as sound. It isn't a matter of who > is right or wrong, I see it as a matter of simple understanding the distinctions > between > traditions. > > Regarding sahaj, I'd like to make a few more distinctions because the definitions > of samadhi are quite loose and confusing to westerners. Sahaj samadhi as Bhagavan > taught is an "open-eyed" natural samadhi or a resting in the natural state and this > is > rather unique. Most traditions teach methods for reaching concentration state such > as savikalpa samadhi (samadhi with form) and nirvikalpa samadhi (samadhi without > form) and both of these states are "closed-eyed" trance states. I don't mean to > minimize > these as realizations as they are rare accomplishments but what Bhagavan was > teaching > was sahaj samadhi which is beyond a concentration but is an "open-eyed" state where > one abides permanently in samadhi during daily activity. Both savikalpa and > nirvikalpa > are temporary trance-related states of divine communion. > > Mark thank you dear Viorica for your input, with Mark it was a misunderstanding, since I > only wanted to stress the importance of the living master in good will.. > > In the Sant Mat tradition we say and meditate with on: Sat Naam = trurth is my > identity. Where Sat means Truth and Nam means name and also synonymous with the > Sound-current the Shabd what sustains all: also called Kalma by Islam, Sharosha by > the jews and in higher Buddhism called Nad or the "Word" in the Bible (..in the > beginning there was the Word and the Word was with God AND THE WORD WAS GOD) > > so you see I'm alread familiar with Sehaj > > ~with all love Karta~ > Ps: Sehaj Marg (Sri Chabdra) is a modern Sant Mat; related more to the Heart (as I > think Ramana is) as the fomer is with the third-eye, they use pranhuti > transmission... > > RamanaMaharshi, "viorica_weissman" <viorica@z...> wrote: > > . By the way Sahaj Yoga is aka Sant Mat aka Surat Shabd Yoga aka > > RadhaSoami aka Sehaj Marg and so and on.. > > > > > > Maharshi : > > > > Sahaja is the original state so that sadhana > > amounts to the removal of obstacles for the realization > > of this abiding truth. > > > > By repeated practice one can become accustomed to turning inwards > > and finding the Self. One must always and constantly make an > > effort, until one has permanently realized. Once the effort ceases, > > the state becomes natural and the Supreme takes possession of the > > person with an unbroken current. > > > > Until it has become permanently natural and your habitual state, > > know that you have not realized the Self, only glimpsed it. > > > > The soul that realizes the Self may still be connected with a > > working body, senses, and mind, without identifying itself with > > that body. > > > > > > > > > > > > There can be satisfaction only when you reach the source, otherwise > > there > > will be restlessness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2002 Report Share Posted June 14, 2002 Hi Karta: M: I understand your "heart pull", I feel the same. K: dear Mark, I came to the Gaia thought "naturally': I had a Kundalini quickening around 9/11. Reading alone didn't call my attention to Ramana now I feel a heart pull toward him. K: I came to the same state by the way of meditation, as I'm trained in Sant Mat. Regarding of going "behind the Sound_current" now I can say it is not necessary and not possible, it would fall in the category of mind games. I think in your terminology Naam is the Brahman itself. M: Hmmm, interesting view. It isn't a mind game because going behind the sound is going behind the mind to the source of attention itself which is what Bhagavan is referring to. Again, as long as there is an object to be sensed, regardless of what it is, there is differentiation and this differentiation is the subtle version of the ego. Sahaj samadhi is not a samadhi perceiving something, it's a samadhi of absolute and utter dissolution of the illusion of a perceiver. No sound, no sight, no objects, no differentiation, no mind, no perception, no perceiver, etc. I would also respectfully submit that Namm isn't Brahman but one of the manifestations of Brahman just as any other object, including apparent physical reality, is a manifestation. Again, as long as there is an experience or object to be heard or seen, there has to be a perceiver and if a perceiver still exists then sadhana isn't yet complete. This is what I meant about the topic being difficult because of it's subtlety. It's a difficult thing to discuss and describe. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2002 Report Share Posted June 14, 2002 dear Mark, I agree with you, that talking about the fine points of spirituality is difficult since it is in the realm of NO LANGUAGE. plus we both should be familiar with both lines of thought fully; Sant Mat and Jnana Yoga and KNOW each-others state of enlightenment. I feel you are still addressing our dialogue from "my guru is better than yours", or at best "Baghavan's Sehaj is the highest etc... " which I encounter often when talking to members of an other path, and is in my opinion is the precursor of cultic thinking. ------------- I already answered some of the topic included here again. --so here is a part of it: "--you wrote: "Sant Mat, as I understand it, is to meditate on shabd, or the sound and the intent is to lead to samadhi." my correction is that we meditate WITH the Sound & **Light (dhyan) and intent is to be led to our true identity as you would categorize it "to be and live in an opened eyed samadhi" as my understanding the state is when: "one is when one is ONE with god's will". --Sounds the same to me." ------------- We are talkking of apples and oranges, <grin> The question is a STATE of living here on earth Isn't it? we are not talking about the validity of the methods, are we? -- meditating with the Sound and Light as a tool takes you "there" to the same state of being as you using vichara. A statement regarding this from Ramana's Spiritual Instructions?: "Those who follow the path of enquiry realize that the mind which remains at the end of the enquiry is Brahman. Those who practise meditation realize that the mind which remains at the end of the meditation is the object of their meditation. As the result is the same in either case it is the duty of aspirants to practise continuously either of these methods till the goal is reached." You write:Sahaj samadhi is not a samadhi perceiving something, it's a samadhi of absolute and utter dissolution of the illusion of a perceiver. No sound, no sight, no objects, no differentiation, no mind, no perception, no perceiver, etc. --the above again sounds the same state as achieved by Surat Shabd Yoga. IMHO There is no higher,truer state of being here on earth than when you are one with the Naam (life-force, sakti, god's will, elan-vitan "the Word" of the Bible "Truth in ACTION" etc. ) --unless you want to sit in samadhi in a cave ~Karta~ RamanaMaharshi, "Mark" <milarepa@a...> wrote: > Hi Karta: > > M: I understand your "heart pull", I feel the same. > > K: dear Mark, I came to the Gaia thought "naturally': I had a Kundalini quickening > around 9/11. Reading alone didn't call my attention to Ramana now I feel a heart > pull toward him. > > K: I came to the same state by the way of meditation, as I'm trained in Sant Mat. > Regarding of going "behind the > Sound_current" now I can say it is not necessary and not possible, it would fall > in the category of mind games. I think in your terminology Naam is the Brahman > itself. > > M: Hmmm, interesting view. It isn't a mind game because going behind the sound is > going behind the mind to the > source of attention itself which is what Bhagavan is referring to. Again, as long > as there is an object to be sensed, > regardless of what it is, there is differentiation and this differentiation is the > subtle version of the ego. Sahaj samadhi > is not a samadhi perceiving something, it's a samadhi of absolute and utter > dissolution of the illusion of a perceiver. > No sound, no sight, no objects, no differentiation, no mind, no perception, no > perceiver, etc. > I would also respectfully submit that Namm isn't Brahman but one of the > manifestations of Brahman just as any other > object, including apparent physical reality, is a manifestation. Again, as long as > there is an experience or object to be > heard or seen, there has to be a perceiver and if a perceiver still exists then > sadhana isn't yet complete. > This is what I meant about the topic being difficult because of it's subtlety. It's > a difficult thing to discuss and describe. > > Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2002 Report Share Posted June 14, 2002 dear Mark, I should spend more time with your insightful posts before answering. I'll now go and learn more from Ramana before I answer to you. <smile> You write:Sahaj samadhi is not a samadhi perceiving something, it's a samadhi of absolute and utter dissolution of the illusion of a perceiver. No sound, no sight, no objects, no differentiation, no mind, no perception, no perceiver, etc. The above gave me the impression, that you think of the sound-light meditation method of Sant Mat as having a perception an awareness of sound and light as an end-result. The dhyan, mantra the sound are all but tools to reach deeper meditation (one can follow the Naam to its source) while in meditation there are"markers' side-effect of a state like inner light and inner sound. The aim the end-result of meditation is to "be cleaned" to be clear to come to a state of Sat Nam = Truth: no illusion, no lies, no mind trips etc ~Karta~ RamanaMaharshi, "Mark" <milarepa@a...> wrote: > Hi Karta: > > M: I understand your "heart pull", I feel the same. > > K: dear Mark, I came to the Gaia thought "naturally': I had a Kundalini quickening > around 9/11. Reading alone didn't call my attention to Ramana now I feel a heart > pull toward him. > > K: I came to the same state by the way of meditation, as I'm trained in Sant Mat. > Regarding of going "behind the > Sound_current" now I can say it is not necessary and not possible, it would fall > in the category of mind games. I think in your terminology Naam is the Brahman > itself. > > M: Hmmm, interesting view. It isn't a mind game because going behind the sound is > going behind the mind to the > source of attention itself which is what Bhagavan is referring to. Again, as long > as there is an object to be sensed, > regardless of what it is, there is differentiation and this differentiation is the > subtle version of the ego. Sahaj samadhi > is not a samadhi perceiving something, it's a samadhi of absolute and utter > dissolution of the illusion of a perceiver. > No sound, no sight, no objects, no differentiation, no mind, no perception, no > perceiver, etc. > I would also respectfully submit that Namm isn't Brahman but one of the > manifestations of Brahman just as any other > object, including apparent physical reality, is a manifestation. Again, as long as > there is an experience or object to be > heard or seen, there has to be a perceiver and if a perceiver still exists then > sadhana isn't yet complete. > This is what I meant about the topic being difficult because of it's subtlety. It's > a difficult thing to discuss and describe. > > Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2002 Report Share Posted June 14, 2002 Hi Karta: Ok, we are proceeding further. I understand your point and I want to emphasize that I don't me to be critical of Sant Mat practice in any way. I recognize and respect your tradition. Regarding the distinctions in practice, I understand the intent of your practice as it is one of the many and true methods of spiritual practice that lead to deeper and deeper levels of realization. Again, the distinction is that ultimate realization arrives when ALL apparent objects disappear, including the apparent object of a separate God or Brahman. It isn't even a matter of lies, mind trips, or illusions because all these things imply an entity to have them. Final realization is that there is absolutely no object and no apparent entity to have these problems. No self, no God, no illusions, no mind trips, no divinity, and no one to experience these. Do you see the distinction I'm making? Mark dear Mark, I should spend more time with your insightful posts before answering. I'll now go and learn more from Ramana before I answer to you. <smile> You write:Sahaj samadhi is not a samadhi perceiving something, it's a samadhi of absolute and utter dissolution of the illusion of a perceiver. No sound, no sight, no objects, no differentiation, no mind, no perception, no perceiver, etc. The above gave me the impression, that you think of the sound-light meditation method of Sant Mat as having a perception an awareness of sound and light as an end-result. The dhyan, mantra the sound are all but tools to reach deeper meditation (one can follow the Naam to its source) while in meditation there are"markers' side-effect of a state like inner light and inner sound. The aim the end-result of meditation is to "be cleaned" to be clear to come to a state of Sat Nam = Truth: no illusion, no lies, no mind trips etc ~Karta~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2002 Report Share Posted June 16, 2002 dear Mark, you know, that I came to Ramana through the Gaia thought around 9/11 and I cherish unity in thought which would help to avoid such violence as that. I'm not familiar of states of samdhi and as you say: the final stage of samadhi "...no one to experence it", my aim is to have the right action here. Here on earth everything involves action, vichara is action so is meditation, awareness is action, realization is action, and the sound Naam is sustaining it all... ~all love Karta~ RamanaMaharshi, "Mark" <milarepa@a...> wrote: > Hi Karta: > > Ok, we are proceeding further. > > I understand your point and I want to emphasize that I don't me to be critical of > Sant Mat practice in any > way. I recognize and respect your tradition. > > Regarding the distinctions in practice, I understand the intent of your practice as > it is one of the many and > true methods of spiritual practice that lead to deeper and deeper levels of > realization. Again, the distinction is > that ultimate realization arrives when ALL apparent objects disappear, including the > apparent object of a separate > God or Brahman. > > It isn't even a matter of lies, mind trips, or illusions because all these things > imply an entity to have them. Final > realization is that there is absolutely no object and no apparent entity to have > these problems. No self, no God, no > illusions, no mind trips, no divinity, and no one to experience these. > > Do you see the distinction I'm making? > > Mark > > > > > > dear Mark, I should spend more time with your insightful posts before answering. > I'll now go and learn more from Ramana before I answer to you. <smile> > > You write:Sahaj samadhi is not a samadhi perceiving something, it's a samadhi of > absolute and utter dissolution of the illusion of a perceiver. No sound, no sight, > no objects, no differentiation, no mind, no perception, no > perceiver, etc. > > The above gave me the impression, that you think of the sound-light meditation > method of Sant Mat as having a perception an awareness of sound and light as an > end-result. The dhyan, mantra the sound are all but tools to reach deeper meditation > (one can follow the Naam to its source) while in meditation there are"markers' > side-effect of a state like inner light and inner sound. The aim the end-result of > meditation is to "be cleaned" to be clear to come to a state of Sat Nam = Truth: no > illusion, no lies, no mind trips etc > > ~Karta~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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